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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Is the KJVO "movement" dying?


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
On 12/22/2017 at 9:34 AM, Pastorj said:

 

There are 100 IFB churches in a 30 min radius of me. None preach the Word of God. Most use the KJV when they use Scripture, but that is far from what good churches were 30 years ago.

I find this interesting, especially in North Carolina (Virginia native here). However, imagine our surprise to find a real, bible-preaching, bible-believing, soulwinning church in "sin city" of all places. My husband and I left the "hippy-skippy" feel-good, NIV (among others) using "megachurch". The Lord led my husband to think about where we attend church right at a year ago now. A year ago, we were still pretty lost, not connected to a community, spiritually comatose. One year later, we are connected, spiritually alive, my husband is saved. Don't ever doubt what God can do...ever! If someone had told me this would happen, I'd have told them they were clear out of their minds. 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 8:13 AM, swathdiver said:

Last May my children and I had the pleasure of meeting with the saints and hearing the Word faithfully preached at Berean Baptist Church over in Winston-Salem, not too far from you.  

I have not visited Berean. We visited over 50 churches in Winston, but that one was south of where we lived at the time.

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 2:48 AM, Saved41199 said:

I find this interesting, especially in North Carolina (Virginia native here).

I have been shocked since moving to NC in 2010. A lot of the churches follow what I call "Camp style" preaching. This style has no substance and rarely opens the Bible. When they do, it is just to grab a verse that sounds good, but is almost always taken out of context.

Much of what is said is not "Unbiblical", but it does not meat Paul's definition of Preaching. Preaching must include "The Word".

A perfect example was this last Sunday. The pastor spoke about Christmas for 40 minutes. Nothing he said was wrong. But he quoted 1 verse and the passage he used did not support the 4 points he had. I am completely disgusted with what I have found for preaching in NC.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I would say I don't believe it, but knowing what it's like to starve to death going to church every Sunday...I do believe it. Might be why I'm in favor of a solid seminary education for a preacher before he starts preaching and attempting to feed the flock. Those poor folks are starving to death and don't even know it. (in the interest of full disclosure, I have one more elective class to take to finally finish my degree in Biblical Studies from Liberty University). 

It isn't easy to find a church that "serves a full meal" every Sunday. At our church, Sunday morning is like "brunch"...on the light side but satisfying. Sunday night is "dinner"...a full meal, may feel a little queasy after "eating" so much. Wednesday night is "supper"...maybe not as filling as dinner but takes care of the hunger but good until Sunday morning. 

These were listed in Statesville from http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=listchurchesinstate&statename=North Carolina

Calvary Baptist Church Dr. Chris Haizlip Statesville
Southview Baptist Church Walter Wagner Statesville
Elmwood First Baptist Rodney G. McAllister Statesville
Harvest Baptist Church Dr. Donald Gant Statesville
Command Baptist C hurch Tony Fox Statesville
Temple Baptist Church Randall Mitchell Statesville

These were listed in Winston Salem

Berean Baptist Church Dr. Ronnie Baity Winston Salem
Woodland Baptist Church 336-969-2088 Winston Salem
Lexwin Baptist Church Pastor Erick Goff Winston Salem
Lexwin Baptist Church Pastor Erick Goff Winston Salem
Vernon Forest Baptist Church Pastor Coats Winston-Salem
Missions Baptist Church David Keaton Winston-Salem
Liberty Baptist Church Gary Styers Winston-Salem
Liberty Baptist Church Gary Styers Winston-Salem

 

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12 hours ago, Saved41199 said:

I would say I don't believe it, but knowing what it's like to starve to death going to church every Sunday...I do believe it. Might be why I'm in favor of a solid seminary education for a preacher before he starts preaching and attempting to feed the flock. Those poor folks are starving to death and don't even know it. (in the interest of full disclosure, I have one more elective class to take to finally finish my degree in Biblical Studies from Liberty University). 

It isn't easy to find a church that "serves a full meal" every Sunday. At our church, Sunday morning is like "brunch"...on the light side but satisfying. Sunday night is "dinner"...a full meal, may feel a little queasy after "eating" so much. Wednesday night is "supper"...maybe not as filling as dinner but takes care of the hunger but good until Sunday morning. 

These were listed in Statesville from http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=listchurchesinstate&statename=North Carolina

Calvary Baptist Church Dr. Chris Haizlip Statesville - Camp Style Preaching - One Message preached was entitled Amazing Grace according to Isaac Newton - Preached out of the hymnal
Southview Baptist Church Walter Wagner Statesville - Unfriendliest church in the whole area - Pastor is no longer there. Assistant constantly took passages out of context
Elmwood First Baptist Rodney G. McAllister Statesville - Haven't visited this one as they have no website that I could find.
Harvest Baptist Church Dr. Donald Gant Statesville - Church has 130 people, 100+ from bus ministry.
Command Baptist C hurch Tony Fox Statesville - Never heard of this one
Temple Baptist Church Randall Mitchell Statesville - Street screaming is required of it's members - Much like Peter Ruckman's group in Florida

These were listed in Winston Salem

Berean Baptist Church Dr. Ronnie Baity Winston Salem - I didn't go to this as it was south of us about the same distance as the church we attended.
Woodland Baptist Church 336-969-2088 Winston Salem - Very Liberal church
Lexwin Baptist Church Pastor Erick Goff Winston Salem -
Lexwin Baptist Church Pastor Erick Goff Winston Salem - Never heard of this one.
Vernon Forest Baptist Church Pastor Coats Winston-Salem - I visited this church, but it was 7 years ago. We didn't go back
Missions Baptist Church David Keaton Winston-Salem - I visited this church, but it was 7 years ago. We didn't go back
Liberty Baptist Church Gary Styers Winston-Salem - Visited church a few years ago - Nice church, but messages were camp style
Liberty Baptist Church Gary Styers Winston-Salem

 

I don't agree with your meal analysis of preaching and neither does the Word of God.

Preaching is not a light brunch. Preaching is exposing the Word of God to those that are there so that the Holy Spirit can work in the lives of people. When we serve a light brunch, we are simply trying to entertain people to get them to come back. I have visited churches on Sunday Morning, Night and Wednesday nights and quite frankly what I have heard is either unbiblical, liberal or just a bunch of jokes and stories.

Out of over 100 churches between Statesville and Winston, I can count on 1 hand the number of churches that had Biblical preaching.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
8 hours ago, Pastorj said:

I don't agree with your meal analysis of preaching and neither does the Word of God.

I was trying (and failing) to make an analogy of what our church is like. Sunday morning is often the time we get the most visitors so the sermon isn't quite as "heavy". This is a typical Sunday morning sermon https://www.sermonaudio.com/saplayer/playpopup.asp?SID=111917133539

Sunday night https://www.sermonaudio.com/saplayer/playpopup.asp?SID=115172159229

Wednesday night https://www.sermonaudio.com/saplayer/playpopup.asp?SID=118172217531

They're different sermons geared to the different folks gathered. Sunday morning is a little lighter, Sunday night is a good dinner and Wednesday night is a full supper...Thing is, church isn't supposed to be the only time for the word...there's a certain responsibility for the individual Christian to spend his own time reading/studying/learning. It's not all on the pastor. I can take you to the fanciest buffet here in sin city and if you choose not to eat, there's not a darn thing I can do to force you...same with folks in church. They can go every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, the preacher can be one of the most serious, his sermons can be a PhD thesis every time and if folks don't want to eat, they won't. I can take you to Pho #2 (not a great restaurant) and if you're hungry enough, you'll find a way to make a meal out of it. Stop putting it all on the preacher...it's not all on him. You can sit, play with your phone, day dream and it doesn't matter how great the sermon is...you won't get a thing out of it. 

My pastor can be quite entertaining...he's funny, he's exuberant while he's preaching, he smiles a lot...are those hallmarks of a crummy preacher? 

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5 hours ago, swathdiver said:

What about the church that hosts the Sword of the Lord conferences?  They are in the northern part of Winston-Salem.  The name escapes me at the moment.

Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown.

They are conservative with good music. The bus ministry overpowers the church 1700 on the buses and only 2500 total attendance.
I love the pastor as a pastor, but his messages are nothing but stories. I call it story time with Bro. Bobby. He makes a great conference speaker, but quite frankly, I haven't heard a "Message" in any visit I have made, which has been many since the church was 2 miles from my house and my kids went to the school.

The assistant is a really good preacher.

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  • Moderators
On 12/22/2017 at 10:34 AM, Pastorj said:

I would agree that KJVO and OKJV are both rooted within the IFB churches. The false churches have moved away from the Word of God as Revelation 3 says they would. Church today are about entertainment and feel good, rather than solid Bible Preaching. As IFB churches fall away from the Word of God, they cease being "Good" churches.

There are 100 IFB churches in a 30 min radius of me. None preach the Word of God. Most use the KJV when they use Scripture, but that is far from what good churches were 30 years ago.

 

On 12/26/2017 at 9:52 AM, Pastorj said:

I have not visited Berean. We visited over 50 churches in Winston, but that one was south of where we lived at the time.

I have been shocked since moving to NC in 2010. A lot of the churches follow what I call "Camp style" preaching. This style has no substance and rarely opens the Bible. When they do, it is just to grab a verse that sounds good, but is almost always taken out of context.

Much of what is said is not "Unbiblical", but it does not meat Paul's definition of Preaching. Preaching must include "The Word".

A perfect example was this last Sunday. The pastor spoke about Christmas for 40 minutes. Nothing he said was wrong. But he quoted 1 verse and the passage he used did not support the 4 points he had. I am completely disgusted with what I have found for preaching in NC.

 

On 12/28/2017 at 6:42 AM, Pastorj said:

Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown.

They are conservative with good music. The bus ministry overpowers the church 1700 on the buses and only 2500 total attendance.
I love the pastor as a pastor, but his messages are nothing but stories. I call it story time with Bro. Bobby. He makes a great conference speaker, but quite frankly, I haven't heard a "Message" in any visit I have made, which has been many since the church was 2 miles from my house and my kids went to the school.

The assistant is a really good preacher.

Understand that I'm Southern born and Southern bred --- and when I die I'll be Southern dead!! BUT, far too many Southern IB preachers are cotton candy  preachers -- all fluff, no substance. Southern folk (as a whole) like it that way, unfortunately. Most campmeetings will have messages that the other preachers can shout about. Am I against shouting? Not when it's real. Does shouting make the service more (or less) real? No. Is "putting on the dog" carnal? Yep! There used to be a good campmeeting in Boomer, N.C. but, alas, it is no more.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

OFP - I am not against shouting, but the yelling I hear is not preaching. I have heard great yelling preachers and I love it when the people get excited about good preaching, but I am afraid to say that the lack of good preaching is why IFB churches are dying

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 12:34 PM, Pastorj said:

I would agree that KJVO and OKJV are both rooted within the IFB churches.

I made this statement early in the discussion wondering if someone would want to discuss. Are you KJVO or OKJV?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The Holy Spirit burdens our hearts to unite with the right church.  Not only do we learn in and grow in grace but we also contribute to that church, bringing with us special God-given gifts that are a blessing to all the saints, including the pastor.  None of them are perfect of course and will be less so when you unite with one.  If Gospel light is where the Lord wants, you, go there and unite with them.  Learn to love story time with Brother Bobby.  Someday, you may be called to pastor that church but be careful of moving the ancient landmarks.  

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58 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

The Holy Spirit burdens our hearts to unite with the right church.  Not only do we learn in and grow in grace but we also contribute to that church, bringing with us special God-given gifts that are a blessing to all the saints, including the pastor.  None of them are perfect of course and will be less so when you unite with one.  If Gospel light is where the Lord wants, you, go there and unite with them.  Learn to love story time with Brother Bobby.  Someday, you may be called to pastor that church but be careful of moving the ancient landmarks.  

No Christian should settle for "Story Time". It is not preaching, which is what Preachers are called to do.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

swathdriver - Btw, not trying to be critical, but it is this very acceptance of bad preaching that our IFB churches are dying. If I can go to a liberal non-denom church and get better preaching than an IFB church, we have succumbed to the Laodicean Church age.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
1 hour ago, Pastorj said:

swathdriver - Btw, not trying to be critical, but it is this very acceptance of bad preaching that our IFB churches are dying. If I can go to a liberal non-denom church and get better preaching than an IFB church, we have succumbed to the Laodicean Church age.

You keep saying that "IFB churches are dying". 

I know there are churches closing and opening all the time, but the reason some IFB churches are dying is more often than not laziness on the part of Pastors, or scandal of some sort.

But in reality, IFB churches are not dying. Not generally.

In fact, in my area we are seeing more and more people turn from rock n roll compromise churches and looking for KJV, Bible preaching, hymn singing churches.

I guess I just don't agree with the generalisation.....

 

Edited by DaveW
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
13 hours ago, Pastorj said:

I made this statement early in the discussion wondering if someone would want to discuss. Are you KJVO or OKJV?

can you distinguish between the two and explain each position?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
15 hours ago, DaveW said:

You keep saying that "IFB churches are dying". 

I know there are churches closing and opening all the time, but the reason some IFB churches are dying is more often than not laziness on the part of Pastors, or scandal of some sort.

But in reality, IFB churches are not dying. Not generally.

In fact, in my area we are seeing more and more people turn from rock n roll compromise churches and looking for KJV, Bible preaching, hymn singing churches.

I guess I just don't agree with the generalisation.....

 

DaveW - The topic of this thread is "Is the KJVO Movement dying". Since this is tied to IFB, I have added that I believe IFB churches are dying for a number of reasons.

1. In the Bible belt where there are 100's of churches and unfortunately the vast majority either no longer or never preached the Word of God, I count those dead. They may have lots of people, but when God's Word is not faithfully preached, the church has no value.
2. The majority of churches that do preach the Word of God have no life in them. Though the preaching is good, the people don't care. They don't care about visitors, they don't respond to the preaching, the church is just withering away. In 20 years, everyone will have passed and the church will be gone.

Now, I know that is a lot of generalization, but the reality is that the number of good churches has declined significantly in the last 20 years. For every 1 church that opens its doors, 10 churches close and that was in 2007.

How do we prevent this from happening
1. Pastors need to stop the entertaining speeches and get back to Preaching the Word of God. It is the Word of God that impacts lives.
2. People need to stop being self centered and start caring about other Christians and the lost.

Churches need to get back to being churches instead of being Sunday entertainment.

 

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
9 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

can you distinguish between the two and explain each position?

KJVO - King James Version Only - This position holds to the KJV being the Inspired Word of God, either through Preservation (Biblical) or through re-inspiration (Ruckmanite - Not Biblical)
1. A KJVO individual believes that the KJV is the only version that English speaking individuals should ever use. They reject all modern translations and any future modern translations.
2. Extremists in this position will also say that the KJV should be used to translate the Bible into other languages.
3. Even further to the extreme, there are some in this camp that believe that if you are not saved from a KJV, they you are not saved as the KJV is the only version which is the Word of God and saves people.

OKJV - Only King James Version - This position also holds to the KJV being the inspired Word of God, but would completely reject the Ruckmanite position of re-inspiration.
1. The KJV is inspired through Preservation as promised in Scripture. Inspiration was only in the original manuscripts, but the KJV can be considered the "Inspired Word of God" because of Preservation
2. The OKJV individual is open to a future modern translation as long as that translation meets the same criteria of the KJV. (Probably never going to happen, but they are open to it). The reason it won't happen is because those that are qualified to actually do the translation are not willing and those that are willing, are not capable.

Though the average KJVO and OKJV are basically the same in their position, the willingness for God to continue his preservation in a new translation is not acceptable to the KJVO group.

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
2 hours ago, Pastorj said:

KJVO - King James Version Only - This position holds to the KJV being the Inspired Word of God, either through Preservation (Biblical) or through re-inspiration (Ruckmanite - Not Biblical)
1. A KJVO individual believes that the KJV is the only version that English speaking individuals should ever use. They reject all modern translations and any future modern translations.
2. Extremists in this position will also say that the KJV should be used to translate the Bible into other languages.
3. Even further to the extreme, there are some in this camp that believe that if you are not saved from a KJV, they you are not saved as the KJV is the only version which is the Word of God and saves people.

OKJV - Only King James Version - This position also holds to the KJV being the inspired Word of God, but would completely reject the Ruckmanite position of re-inspiration.
1. The KJV is inspired through Preservation as promised in Scripture. Inspiration was only in the original manuscripts, but the KJV can be considered the "Inspired Word of God" because of Preservation
2. The OKJV individual is open to a future modern translation as long as that translation meets the same criteria of the KJV. (Probably never going to happen, but they are open to it). The reason it won't happen is because those that are qualified to actually do the translation are not willing and those that are willing, are not capable.

Though the average KJVO and OKJV are basically the same in their position, the willingness for God to continue his preservation in a new translation is not acceptable to the KJVO group.

Another difference between the KJVO position and the OKJV position would be their differing viewpoint concerning Bible study through the use of the original languages, Hebrew and Greek.  Those of the KJVO position would view it as a major negative (maybe even, a sinful negative); those of the OKJV position would view it as a useful positive.

In addition, those of the OKJV position will often indicate that what they really are is MTO (Massoretic Text Only) for the Hebrew of the Old Testament & TRO (Textus Receptus Only; Received Text Only) for the Greek of the New Testament.  

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Pastorj, I am not suggesting you settle at all.  I am suggesting that if the Holy Spirit leads you to that church, unite with it.  Your gifts and influence may change the ways of the preacher or lead to a change in who stands in the pulpit.  Again, this is the work of the Holy Ghost through the hearts of submissive and humbled men.  

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