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1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

How is a believer baptized into the body of Christ? And when did this first happen in the Bible?

Is being baptized with the Spirit mean you are born again? Does this include water?

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12 hours ago, InSeasonOut said:

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

How is a believer baptized into the body of Christ? And when did this first happen in the Bible?

Is being baptized with the Spirit mean you are born again? Does this include water?

1.  Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is a spiritual work of our Lord Jesus Christ wherein our Lord Jesus Christ Himself baptizes a believer within the "substance" of the Holy Spirit.  Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Baptizer (not the Holy Spirit), and the Holy Spirit is the "substance" of the baptizing.

2.  The baptism with the Holy Spirit first occurred in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost.  Now throughout this time of the New Testament, the baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs for each new believer at the moment of faith in Christ for eternal salvation.  The baptism with the Holy Spirit is biblically equivalent to the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit within the New Testament believer.

3.  Being baptized with the Holy Spirit would indeed mean that an individual is born again, since an individual must be born again by the Holy Spirit before that individual can be baptized (indwelt) with the Holy Spirit.  However, being born again by the Holy Spirit and being baptized (indwelt) with the Holy Spirit are NOT the same thing.  In this time of the New Testament, being baptized (indwelt) with the Holy Spirit proceeds from being born again by the Holy Spirit.  However, in the time of the Old Testament, being born again by the Holy Spirit occurred apart from being baptized (indwelt) with the Holy Spirit.

4.  No.  Being baptized by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself with the "substance" of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with water.  Being baptized with water is accomplished physically (according to the commandment of our Lord) by mankind; whereas being baptized with the Holy Spirit is accomplished spiritually by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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Thank you. I agree. You've confirmed what I believe, as this topic came up elsewhere.

However I have a question concerning your statement :

2 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

However, in the time of the Old Testament, being born again by the Holy Spirit occurred apart from being baptized (indwelt) with the Holy Spirit.

Do you remember where in the OT this happened? I've read the OT but I don't recall anywhere when anyone was born again, or indwelt with the Spirit.

Several places it says "the Spirit of the LORD came upon.." (Judges 3:10 ; 6:34 ; 11:29) or etc. There are different ways it's said but basically says the Spirit of the LORD " came upon me , is upon me ; or rest upon me ; or fell upon me " etc... It seems to me that being indwelt by the Spirit (NT) is different than the Spirit being upon someone (OT). As the Spirit could depart if it was upon them (OT) but it cannot depart if one is indwelt / sealed (NT).

One of the mysteries that was revealed to Paul was the indwelling of the Spirit (Colossians 1:26-27). Is this something different?

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27 minutes ago, InSeasonOut said:

However I have a question concerning your statement :

Do you remember where in the OT this happened? I've read the OT but I don't recall anywhere when anyone was born again, or indwelt with the Spirit.

Brother "inSeasonOut,"

The way that you worded your above question leaves me a bit uncertain.  With your question are you viewing being "born again" and being "indwelt with the Spirit" as Biblically equivalent to one another?  Or, with your question are your viewing being "born again" as a separate work of the Holy Spirit from being "indwelt with the Spirit"?

In my presentation above I have very distinctly communicated that being "born again" by the Holy Spirit is NOT the same work of the Holy Spirit as being "indwelt with the Spirit."  As such, I DO believe that the Holy Spirit's work of regeneration (birthing again) did indeed occur for Old Testament believers.  However, I most certainly do NOT believe that the Holy Spirit's work of indwelling occurred until the day of Pentecost, for New Testament believers only.  Indeed, I believe that the Holy Spirit's work of indwelling is a specific part of the New Covenant (Testament), and NOT a part of the Old Covenant (Testament) at all.

36 minutes ago, InSeasonOut said:

Several places it says "the Spirit of the LORD came upon.." (Judges 3:10 ; 6:34 ; 11:29) or etc. There are different ways it's said but basically says the Spirit of the LORD " came upon me , is upon me ; or rest upon me ; or fell upon me " etc... It seems to me that being indwelt by the Spirit (NT) is different than the Spirit being upon someone (OT). As the Spirit could depart if it was upon them (OT) but it cannot depart if one is indwelt / sealed (NT).

I would contend that these Old Testament passage concerning the Holy Spirit's work of filling, which I would contend is a separate matter from either His work of regeneration or His work of indwelling.  Three DIFFERENT works of the Holy Spirit as such -

1.  The work of regeneration.
2.  The work of indwelling.
3.  The work of infilling.

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3 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

The way that you worded your above question leaves me a bit uncertain.  With your question are you viewing being "born again" and being "indwelt with the Spirit" as Biblically equivalent to one another?  Or, with your question are your viewing being "born again" as a separate work of the Holy Spirit from being "indwelt with the Spirit"?

In my presentation above I have very distinctly communicated that being "born again" by the Holy Spirit is NOT the same work of the Holy Spirit as being "indwelt with the Spirit."  As such, I DO believe that the Holy Spirit's work of regeneration (birthing again) did indeed occur for Old Testament believers.  However, I most certainly do NOT believe that the Holy Spirit's work of indwelling occurred until the day of Pentecost, for New Testament believers only.  Indeed, I believe that the Holy Spirit's work of indwelling is a specific part of the New Covenant (Testament), and NOT a part of the Old Covenant (Testament) at all.

Ok, thanks for clarifying... To speak plainly, Yes - When a believer is indwelt with the Spirit, he is born again. Being born again, is not apart from being indwelt with the Spirit. This is clear from the OT examples I gave... The Spirit was only upon them, rested upon, or fell upon, etc... the OT saints. They were not indwelt... the Spirit could (and did) leave, this is why I say they were not "born again". They were saved, but born again. The OT Jews could lose the Spirit (Psalm 51:11) thus they would lose the "new birth" of being born again.

There was no eternal security in the OT. To be born again the Spirit must indwell you, which seals you (NT) We cannot lose the new birth.

OT saints could lose the Spirit, therefore they were not born again.

16 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

I would contend that these Old Testament passage concerning the Holy Spirit's work of filling, which I would contend is a separate matter from either His work of regeneration or His work of indwelling.  Three DIFFERENT works of the Holy Spirit as such -

1.  The work of regeneration.
2.  The work of indwelling.
3.  The work of infilling.

Filling by definition would, is to be inside an object. To be upon, or rest upon, or fall upon, is to be outside an object.

I agree with the 3 different works you listed, but all occur for the NT Christian.

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18 hours ago, InSeasonOut said:

Ok, thanks for clarifying...

 

Brother "InSeasonOut,"

You are welcome.  Just seeking to engage the discussion with clarity and depth, even if we may disagree.

18 hours ago, InSeasonOut said:

To speak plainly, Yes - When a believer is indwelt with the Spirit, he is born again.

Indeed, I would agree that for the New Testament believer being indwelt by the Spirit would also indicate that an individual is born again by the Spirit.  This would be so because in this time of the New Testament the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit proceeds OUT OF the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.  However, I would contend that the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit is a separate work of the Holy Spirit from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, and that these two works of the Holy Spirit are NOT to be viewed as Biblically equivalent unto one another.  Even so, I believe that for the Old Testament believer the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit DID occur as a singular event wherein the Holy Spirit removed the spiritually dead spirit from that Old Testament believer and replaced it with spiritually alive spirit.  However, I do NOT believe that the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit occurred for the Old Testament believer, such that the Holy Spirit performed His work of regeneration upon the spirit of the Old Testament believer, but did not then "move in" to permanently indwell that Old Testament believer.  Indeed, as I have previously indicated, I believe that the permanent indwelling work of the Holy Spirit did not occur for believers until the day of Pentecost.

18 hours ago, InSeasonOut said:

Being born again, is not apart from being indwelt with the Spirit.

Indeed, THIS is THE premise for your entire position -- that the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit CANNOT exist separately from one another.  Therefore, I would ask you to provide some passages of the New Testament which precisely teach this premise.  Yes, I am aware of our Lord Jesus Christ's teaching in John 3 that the Holy Spirit is the Person of the Godhead who engages the work of regeneration upon a believer.  However, I am not aware of any reference unto the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit within John 3.  Yes, I am aware that Titus 3:4-7 defines the work of regeneration as "the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost."  However, I am not aware of any reference unto the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit within that context.  Yes, I am aware that our Lord Jesus Christ promised the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit in John 14:15-21.  However, I am not aware of any reference unto the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit in that context.  In fact, I would suppose that Romans 8:1-17 is your best passage from which to attempt to demonstrate your premise.  However, unless you can precisely demonstrate your premise from Scripture, I would be compelled to deny your premise.

18 hours ago, InSeasonOut said:

There was no eternal security in the OT. To be born again the Spirit must indwell you, which seals you (NT) We cannot lose the new birth.

OT saints could lose the Spirit, therefore they were not born again.

Again, everything that you propose in these two declarations is founded upon your primary premise, that is -- "To be born again the Spirit must indwell you."

I would contend that this premise is NOT true.  Rather, I would contend that to be born again the Holy Spirit must perform the divine work of removing your spiritually dead spirit from you and of replacing it with a spiritually alive spirit.  Furthermore, I would contend that to be permanently indwelt the Holy Spirit must then move into that spiritually alive spirit as His dwelling place.  However, I would contend (as I have) that these are two separate works of the Holy Spirit, that the second work proceeds out of the first work, but that the second work is not inherently necessitated by the first work, such that the first work can (and did for Old Testament believers) exist apart from the second work.

On the other hand, I would certainly agree that no believer (either in the Old Testament or in the New Testament) could or can lose eternal redemption, eternal regeneration, eternal life, eternal justification, or eternal salvation.  Furthermore, I agree that the filling work of the Holy Spirit could come and go for an Old Testament believer, just as I would contend that it can come and go for a New Testament believer.  However, I would contend that the Old Testament believer could NOT lose the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit, since they NEVER had it at all.

18 hours ago, InSeasonOut said:

Filling by definition would, is to be inside an object. To be upon, or rest upon, or fall upon, is to be outside an object.

Your statement above that "filling by definition would, is to be inside an object" appears to indicate that you would equate the filling work of the Holy Spirit with the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit.  If that is so, then you need to consider those Old Testament passages wherein the filling work of the Holy Spirit is presented in the time of the Old Testament, such as Exodus 31:3 and Exodus 35:31.

19 hours ago, InSeasonOut said:

I agree with the 3 different works you listed, but all occur for the NT Christian.

Indeed, I would also agree that all three of these works occur for the New Testament believer, as follows:

1.  The work of regeneration -- immediately upon faith in the Savior.
2.  The work of indwelling -- immediately proceeding out of the work of regeneration.
3.  The work of infilling -- immediately available for every New Testament believer, to be engaged whenever the New Testament believer submits thereto.

On the other hand, I would contend that all three of these works did not occur for the Old Testament believer, as follows:

1.  The work of regeneration -- yes, immediately upon faith in the Savior.
2.  The work of indwelling -- no, never made available unto any Old Testament believer.
3.  The work of infilling -- yes, made available unto chosen Old Testament believers for specific ministries of service unto the Lord.

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Brother "InSeasonOut,"

I am presenting this posting as a separate one from that above because it is not a direct response unto your comments, but is some new thoughts for consideration.

I would ask you to consider the following questions and answer:

1.  Question #1: According to 1 John 1:5-7 what is necessary in order to walk in spiritual fellowship with the Lord our God?  Answer: We must walk in spiritual light.

2.  Question #2: Is it possible for an individual who is spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins," and thus is spiritually a child of disobedience, a child of darkness, and "alienated from the life God," to walk in spiritual light?  Answer: No, for such would be spiritually contradictory.

3.  Question #3: Biblically, what is the only way for a sinner to cease being spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins," so as to pass from spiritual death unto spiritual life and to have the ability to walk in spiritual fellowship with the Lord our God?  Answer: Spiritual regeneration.

4.  Question #4: Did any among the Old Testament believers walk in spiritual fellowship with the Lord God?  Answer: Many of them certainly DID.

5.  Question #5: How was it possible for an Old Testament believer to walk in spiritual fellowship with the Lord God if that Old Testament believer never experienced spiritual regeneration, and thus continually remained spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" as a continual child of darkness?  Answer: I would contend that such would not have been spiritually possible at all.

6.  Question #6: In fact, how was it possible for any Old Testament believer to serve the Lord God and please the Lord God if that Old Testament believer never experienced spiritual regeneration, and thus continually remained spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" as a continual child of darkness?  Answer: I would contend that such would not have been spiritually possible at all.

7.  Question #7: Indeed, how was it possible for the Holy Spirit of God to come upon any Old Testament believer if that Old Testament believer never experienced spiritual regeneration, and thus continually remained spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" as a continual child of darkness?  Answer: I would contend that such would NEVER have been spiritually possible.

________________________________________________

For additional consideration -- Although the Old Testament does NOT present a thorough doctrine of regeneration, I would contend that any reference unto spiritual life and "liveliness" would be Biblical evidence of spiritual regeneration in the Old Testament.  Furthermore, I would contend that any reference unto spiritual quickening and spiritual reviving would be Biblical evidence of spiritual regeneration in the Old Testament.  Finally, I would contend that any reference unto some being the sons or children of God would be Biblical evidence of spiritual regeneration in the Old Testament.

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