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Who Populates the Millennial Kingdom?


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Okay, this is always a fun discussion, though on an Independent Fundamental Baptist Forum it may be that everyone here already gets it, lol.

But let's see.

To just get it started, the primary objective is to discuss the timing of the Rapture, so my proposal is that according to Prophecy, it is impossible for the Rapture to take place at the end of the Tribulation. Any objections?

 

God bless.

 

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2 hours ago, S.T.Ranger said:

Okay, this is always a fun discussion, though on an Independent Fundamental Baptist Forum it may be that everyone here already gets it, lol.

But let's see.

To just get it started, the primary objective is to discuss the timing of the Rapture, so my proposal is that according to Prophecy, it is impossible for the Rapture to take place at the end of the Tribulation. Any objections?

 

God bless.

 

I have hard time seeing how it could, because according to Matthew 25, at the second coming at the end of the 7 years, the Sheep enter the Kingdom, and the Goats enter everlasting fire. Therefore to me it seems that if the rapture happened at this point, all of the sheep would have glorified bodies, and all of the goats are damned.. this would mean there would be only people on earth with glorified bodies that are like unto the angels in heaven. However I must admit that maybe small children under the age of accountability at this time perhaps may not fall into either category.

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On 29/04/2017 at 6:04 AM, Jordan Kurecki said:

have hard time seeing how it could, because according to Matthew 25, at the second coming at the end of the 7 years, the Sheep enter the Kingdom, and the Goats enter everlasting fire. Therefore to me it seems that if the rapture happened at this point, all of the sheep would have glorified bodies, and all of the goats are damned.. this would mean there would be only people on earth with glorified bodies that are like unto the angels in heaven. However I must admit that maybe small children under the age of accountability at this time perhaps may not fall into either category.

It is interesting that you should raise this 31 ¶  When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Some yeas ago, a preacher at our church spoke on this. He said that Christians were not their as it is after the "rapture".  Jews were not there as the Jews were not to be counted in The Nations. Num, 23:9

If that is so then who are the sheep?

Edited by Invicta
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On 04/30/2017 at 11:45 AM, Invicta said:

It is interesting that you should raise this 31 ¶  When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Some yeas ago, a preacher at our church spoke on this. He said that Christians were not their as it is after the "rapture".  Jews were not there as the Jews were not to be counted in The Nations. Num, 23:9

If that is so then who are the sheep?

That preacher was wrong. While it is true that all believers both Jew and Gentile will be taken up by the rapture prior to the 7 year tribulation period, it is also true that AFTER the Rapture there will be people who become converted and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Honestly I don't see any difficulty at all.

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On 4/30/2017 at 0:45 PM, Invicta said:

Some yeas ago, a preacher at our church spoke on this. He said that Christians were not their as it is after the "rapture".  Jews were not there as the Jews were not to be counted in The Nations. Num, 23:9

Brother Invicta, I wonder what that preacher would have to say about Jeremiah 31:35-36?

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Sorry, brother, but I haven't yet seen the sun YET depart, nor the moon and stars depart... have you? 

What about Revelation 12:6 and Rev.12:14? Whom would you suppose "that preacher" would have thought those were? 
Rev.12:6 " And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

Rev.12:14 "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

And if God's word is speaking of Israel (which I believe it is), then how is it that Israel wouldn't be present in the millennium? Why also would God's word describe so much detail about that time period written about in much of the OT... Here is just ONE chapter (of many) dealing with the millennium: Zech.8 (all of the chapter, but I will only quote 2 verses here since you are likely familiar with it) Verses 22-23

22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.


I wonder why God's word is so very specific, down to the detail of the "skirt of him that is a Jew"... IF He supposedly didn't actually MEAN "a Jew"? 

Instead of being snarky, I won't pretend any longer to wonder what "that preacher" would have to say about those specific verses, I will come right out and ask YOU what you think? Has the sun, moon, and stars departed yet? If so, when? and if the Lord didn't actually MEAN "the skirt of him that is a Jew" Why would He have been so very specific about the term "a Jew"? 

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Man, I dont have a lot of time, but let's see if I can stir things up.

Okay, the nations being judged at the "sheep and goats' judgment, so-called, are those left of the nations that come against Jerusalem. Zechariah 14 tells us that, because it will be of those that will enter into the Kingdom. While the armies will be destroyed, there are always a lot of folks left at home in nations that send their armies out: men, women, children, the elderly, etc, those not part of the army. THEY will be brought and judged according to how they treated the 'saints', how they treated those who were Christ's.

As for the rapture, most know my view on this: the rapture occurs just prior to the outpouring of God's wrath, after the 7th trump, as seen in Rev 14:14-17. Immediately after the Son of Man in the cloud repas his harvest, an angel comes and gathers the grapes from the vine of the earth and casts them into the winepress of God's wrath, and at that point, the vilas of wrath are begun to be poured out on the earth. We literally are not children of wrath. There IS a difference between the time of tribulation and the time of wrath.

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22 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

That preacher was wrong. While it is true that all believers both Jew and Gentile will be taken up by the rapture prior to the 7 year tribulation period, it is also true that AFTER the Rapture there will be people who become converted and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Honestly I don't see any difficulty at all.

The original rapture teaching by the Irvingites was  that there would be no preachers or teachers after the rapture, so no converts.  When I was in the Brethren we were taught that there would be no, or just a few converts. Now some say that there will be the greatest revival of all times.  I was  also taught that the church and the Holy Spirit would be removed, if that is true how can there be any converts seeing that it is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin.

15 hours ago, Ronda said:

Brother Invicta, I wonder what that preacher would have to say about Jeremiah 31:35-36?

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Sorry, brother, but I haven't yet seen the sun YET depart, nor the moon and stars depart... have you? 

What about Revelation 12:6 and Rev.12:14? Whom would you suppose "that preacher" would have thought those were? 
Rev.12:6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

Rev.12:14 "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

And if God's word is speaking of Israel (which I believe it is), then how is it that Israel wouldn't be present in the millennium? Why also would God's word describe so much detail about that time period written about in much of the OT... Here is just ONE chapter (of many) dealing with the millennium: Zech.8 (all of the chapter, but I will only quote 2 verses here since you are likely familiar with it) Verses 22-23

22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.


I wonder why God's word is so very specific, down to the detail of the "skirt of him that is a Jew"... IF He supposedly didn't actually MEAN "a Jew"? 

Instead of being snarky, I won't pretend any longer to wonder what "that preacher" would have to say about those specific verses, I will come right out and ask YOU what you think? Has the sun, moon, and stars departed yet? If so, when? and if the Lord didn't actually MEAN "the skirt of him that is a Jew" Why would He have been so very specific about the term "a Jew"? 

Sister Ronda

The preacher would surely agree wth the first point but as he want to be with the Lord a few years ago, I can'st ask him. On Rev. 12:6 and Rev. 12 14 he would say the Jews seeing as he was Brethren.  I think he would be wrong.  A wonan in Rev. always refers to a church. 

As regards the rest of your points, I can't say, but probably he would agree with you.

 

8 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

We literally are not children of wrath. There IS a difference between the time of tribulation and the time of wrath.

Of acourse there is.  The time of wrath is the final judgment for the unsaved who will be separated at that time from true believers when the book odf life is opened.

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Any person who accepts Jesus as Lord and savior is one of Jesus's  brethren. Any person who helps the brethren will go alive into the Kingdom with the living brethren to repopulate the earth. Salvation from damnation to hell will still be by faith in Jesus. All will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the 1000 years.

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Eric, I've never understood the scriptures to say I would appear at the Great White Throne Judgement. I will appear before Christ at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Please no need to reply. I saw what you have posted in the other thread to support your view and it just isn't adequate. I believe you have some scriptures uncollated. I'm not attempting to be mean, I just don't agree. 

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15 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Eric, I've never understood the scriptures to say I would appear at the Great White Throne Judgement. I will appear before Christ at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Please no need to reply. I saw what you have posted in the other thread to support your view and it just isn't adequate. I believe you have some scriptures uncollated. I'm not attempting to be mean, I just don't agree. 

I would give Eric half a like if there was one, for his post, but it seems to imply something that he has not said

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21 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Eric, I've never understood the scriptures to say I would appear at the Great White Throne Judgement. I will appear before Christ at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Please no need to reply. I saw what you have posted in the other thread to support your view and it just isn't adequate. I believe you have some scriptures uncollated. I'm not attempting to be mean, I just don't agree. 

Hi 1Timothy115. Maybe I was not clear. The only saved people to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgement are those that lived in the kingdom age or died sinners before the Kingdom age. I do think we will be witnesses.

 

Edited by Eric Stahl
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23 hours ago, Invicta said:

Sister Ronda

The preacher would surely agree wth the first point but as he want to be with the Lord a few years ago, I can'st ask him. On Rev. 12:6 and Rev. 12 14 he would say the Jews seeing as he was Brethren.  I think he would be wrong.  A wonan in Rev. always refers to a church. 

As regards the rest of your points, I can't say, but probably he would agree with you.

Thanks for answering (in part), brother Invicta. I wouldn't agree with you, but appreciate your brief answer. I would, however, like an answer as to this question (if you would be so kind as to opine):
 I wonder why God's word is so very specific, down to the detail of the "skirt of him that is a Jew"... IF He supposedly didn't actually MEAN "a Jew"? 

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On 5/2/2017 at 3:40 PM, Invicta said:

Of course there is.  The time of wrath is the final judgment for the unsaved who will be separated at that time from true believers when the book odf life is opened.

"And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood..." (Rev 16:1-4)

So if the time of wrath is at the final judgment for the unsaved, what, pray tell, is happening here? No the judgment is just that: judgment. Wrath of God is righteous anger of our Almighty God, while the judgment is just that: It is pure justice and law being meted out. Those who go through His wrath will also go through His judgment.

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