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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Jehovah's Witness


Potatochip
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On 3/14/2017 at 2:48 PM, Disciple.Luke said:

I doubt having a kid with them helps much, other than the people at the door may not be as rude. Bringing their children along helps train them to grow up to be Watchtower robots more than it helps getting people to listen.

This is a correct observation. They teach their kids and indoctrinate them at an early age. If you attended one of their services, which I do not recommend, you would see pint size JW's. They insist that their kids dress exactly like older JW's. There is no playing, crayons, or anything like that allowed. If a baby makes a "peep" they are immediately hauled out of the room. And even at that, there are stern looks from others in the congregation.

These kids will greet you just like their parents would and will also engage you in very adult conversation.

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On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 7:23 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

This is a correct observation. They teach their kids and indoctrinate them at an early age. If you attended one of their services, which I do not recommend, you would see pint size JW's. They insist that their kids dress exactly like older JW's. There is no playing, crayons, or anything like that allowed. If a baby makes a "peep" they are immediate hauled out of the room. And even at that, there are stern looks from others in the congregation.

These kids will greet you just like their parents would and will also engage you in very adult conversation.

Come to think of it...he was dressed just like daddy. What a sorrowful day it will be when these folks stand before Jesus Christ and give account of their abuse of these children.

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10 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Come to think of it...he was dressed just like daddy. What a sorrowful day it will be when these folks stand before Jesus Christ and give account of their abuse of these children.

I encounter these people at train stations.  Subways.  They get a permit and set up in the train station.  I'm usually going thru the station pretty quick so I let them have it lol.  A nice rebuke and I'm on.  They are suckers for those higher ups.  Millions in real estate holdings and printed material one guy pointed out hey why not just put all the Jehovah's Witness material on the internet and www on the racks they use uhuh no money that way it would seem.  The "witnesses" are suckers and little profit centers for the 144k in my opinion.  

For some reason it really bothers me when they set up in the hispanic neighborhoods.  Door to door to I guess.  They don't do much at the train stations just stand there

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17 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Potatochip,

They do put that stuff on their website. It is here

I dunno thats what an ex Jehovah's witness was saying on the internet.  They don't advertise it on their outdoor racks that i can see. 

Edited by Potatochip
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1 hour ago, Jim_Alaska said:

No, unless I am not understanding what you are saying, that s their official website and all their information and publications are listed on it.

Correct. All their information and publications are on their website JW.org. Many Kingdom Halls have added the website address to their signs in front of the Kingdom Halls. There is also a JW library app you can down on apple and google play with all their publications.

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Their organizational structure is very much compartmentalized. For instance I will list positions people hold within the organization.

1. The average JW: who will never miss a service, even feels guilty when sick and can't attend. There is a large majority of women in this classification.

2. The Publisher: This is the person than knocks on your door with the aim of putting literature in your hand and trying to get you to agree to a "bible study."

3. The Pioneer: This is also the person that knocks on your door, usually accompanied by a publisher and/or average JW in training. This person has applied to the elders and been approved to become a Pioneer. This is viewed as a full time ministry and all expense is born by the pioneer, they are not reimbursed nor paid in any way.

4. The Ministerial Servant: This classification is held only by men, they are the ones that pass out the microphones at meetings, do odd jobs like cleaning, running errands, visiting the sick, or anything of a menial nature that is below the dignity of an elder.

5. The Elders: These are always men who have shown a degree of leadership qualities over long periods of time. They have been recommended for the position of Elder by the other Elders in the congregation and approved for the office by both the Elders and the Circuit Overseer. These men are the ones that conduct the services by making sure that the guidelines of the governing body are followed to the letter. Usually one of them is assigned to record things such as, the performance of various parts of the services. They actually keep a written record of how the other people in the congregation are performing. This is critical for advancement in the local congregations.

This is a critical control tactic. They record things such as: How the speaker holds his bible, how any speaker pronounces words, whether or not they pause in their reading at appropriate places, proper use of punctuation, proper posture. This is not confined strictly to platform speakers, but also to audience question and answer and bible reading. People are vocally praised at the end of their presentation for their proper use of these things.

A detailed record is kept, listing exact numbers of home visits, numbers of materials passed out,  baptisms, bible studies held, numbers of attendees at both yearly assemblies and conventions, and the progress of every JW. This information is made public as an incentive for every JW to excel in his or her ministry.

6. The Circuit Overseer: This man has an assigned "territory". He makes his circuit on a regular schedule, visiting every congregation in his territory at least once per year. His job is to make sure things are being done correctly, supervising the Elders, making sure that the rules of the governing body are being followed, writing evaluation reports to the home office. He also helps out with any problems that the Kingdom Hall may encounter.

He is held in high esteem by all, almost to the point of being seen as an Apostle, although not called one. They are not paid a wage, but are required to demonstrate that they can be self supporting. They are afforded a very small stipend to help with travel expense.

7. The Governing Body: These are the men headquartered at what they call "Bethel" in New York. They are the ones that dictate all material used by all JW's. Design lesson and "talk" material, produce lesson movies and videos and generally run the whole show.

At Bethel there are also servants that do the menial tasks like the printing material, videos, conducting tours of the facility.

I could go on and on, but it would take quite a bit of writing time, which I don't have this morning. Suffice to say that they are a highly organized cult that is possibly the most influential cult in the world at this time.

 

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On 3/24/2017 at 0:09 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

Their organizational structure is very much compartmentalized. For instance I will list positions people hold within the organization.

1. The average JW: who will never miss a service, even feels guilty when sick and can't attend. There is a large majority of women in this classification.

2. The Publisher: This is the person than knocks on your door with the aim of putting literature in your hand and trying to get you to agree to a "bible study."

3. The Pioneer: This is also the person that knocks on your door, usually accompanied by a publisher and/or average JW in training. This person has applied to the elders and been approved to become a Pioneer. This is viewed as a full time ministry and all expense is born by the pioneer, they are not reimbursed nor paid in any way.

4. The Ministerial Servant: This classification is held only by men, they are the ones that pass out the microphones at meetings, do odd jobs like cleaning, running errands, visiting the sick, or anything of a menial nature that is below the dignity of an elder.

5. The Elders: These are always men who have shown a degree of leadership qualities over long periods of time. They have been recommended for the position of Elder by the other Elders in the congregation and approved for the office by both the Elders and the Circuit Overseer. These men are the ones that conduct the services by making sure that the guidelines of the governing body are followed to the letter. Usually one of them is assigned to record things such as, the performance of various parts of the services. They actually keep a written record of how the other people in the congregation are performing. This is critical for advancement in the local congregations.

This is a critical control tactic. They record things such as: How the speaker holds his bible, how any speaker pronounces words, whether or not they pause in their reading at appropriate places, proper use of punctuation, proper posture. This is not confined strictly to platform speakers, but also to audience question and answer and bible reading. People are vocally praised at the end of their presentation for their proper use of these things.

A detailed record is kept, listing exact numbers of home visits, numbers of materials passed out,  baptisms, bible studies held, numbers of attendees at both yearly assemblies and conventions, and the progress of every JW. This information is made public as an incentive for every JW to excel in his or her ministry.

6. The Circuit Overseer: This man has an assigned "territory". He makes his circuit on a regular schedule, visiting every congregation in his territory at least once per year. His job is to make sure things are being done correctly, supervising the Elders, making sure that the rules of the governing body are being followed, writing evaluation reports to the home office. He also helps out with any problems that the Kingdom Hall may encounter.

He is held in high esteem by all, almost to the point of being seen as an Apostle, although not called one. They are not paid a wage, but are required to demonstrate that they can be self supporting. They are afforded a very small stipend to help with travel expense.

7. The Governing Body: These are the men headquartered at what they call "Bethel" in New York. They are the ones that dictate all material used by all JW's. Design lesson and "talk" material, produce lesson movies and videos and generally run the whole show.

At Bethel there are also servants that do the menial tasks like the printing material, videos, conducting tours of the facility.

I could go on and on, but it would take quite a bit of writing time, which I don't have this morning. Suffice to say that they are a highly organized cult that is possibly the most influential cult in the world at this time.

 

Very accurate!

The LDS Church is compartmentalized in a very similar way, but I believe they are even tighter in structure from the top down.

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On 3/13/2017 at 5:19 PM, Ukulelemike said:

despite their hatred toward the Catholics, they do business almost exactly as the Catholics do: the message is prepared and sent to ALL halls, for use that same Sunday, as well as the reading.

Jesuits helped to write their bible.  Poor saps, all that work to get into heaven with only 144,000 openings...  That's what they taught in the late 1980s, not sure what manure they are pushing now.

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Basically:

144000 = super special place in heaven grade 1.

Regular faithful JW = spot in regular grade heaven.

And here's the interesting bit:

Sincere religious folk who are not JW's = grade three heaven, which I think is actually "new earth".

The rest just stop being anything or anywhere - no hell, no other judgrment.

 

When I was told that I said "If you are right, I still get there because I have a sincere faith; but if am right, you spend eternity in Hell. Why would I change for that?"

That is a good path to take - tell them that you are a faithful Christian and ask them what happens to people like you.

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7 hours ago, DaveW said:

Basically:

144000 = super special place in heaven grade 1.

Regular faithful JW = spot in regular grade heaven.

And here's the interesting bit:

Sincere religious folk who are not JW's = grade three heaven, which I think is actually "new earth".

The rest just stop being anything or anywhere - no hell, no other judgrment.

 

When I was told that I said "If you are right, I still get there because I have a sincere faith; but if am right, you spend eternity in Hell. Why would I change for that?"

That is a good path to take - tell them that you are a faithful Christian and ask them what happens to people like you.

I didn't know they had 3 grades of heaven.  That second one is a new one on me.  The gospel saves in my opinion.  I guess you can contend the facts.  I like it when preacher gets on TV say in a secular interview and slips bible verses about salvation into the conversation. Debating is interesting but tiring to me in many ways its goes round and round with this misnomer and that one until the words of the gospel are added. 

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I was under the impression that ONLY the 144,000 go to Heaven, or even ever see the face of God. All other good JW's will be resurrected into the new (renovated) earth and will dwell there forever.  They don't believe in an actual NEW heaven and NEW earth, just that earth will be made back like Eden. Those who die lost will be resurrected for their judgment, then cast into the lake of fire to be quickly burned up and blink from existence.  This is what I've gotten from local JW's. The doctrine seems to change often. I guess, like the Mormons, they have a 'progressive revelation'.

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33 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

I was under the impression that ONLY the 144,000 go to Heaven, or even ever see the face of God. All other good JW's will be resurrected into the new (renovated) earth and will dwell there forever.  They don't believe in an actual NEW heaven and NEW earth, just that earth will be made back like Eden. Those who die lost will be resurrected for their judgment, then cast into the lake of fire to be quickly burned up and blink from existence.  This is what I've gotten from local JW's. The doctrine seems to change often. I guess, like the Mormons, they have a 'progressive revelation'.

This is true to the extreme, Mike. They are adamant that only 144,000 go to heaven, all other JW's get to spend eternity on what they call "Paradise Earth."

This imaginary 144,000 are so special that only they get to actually partake of what we call the Lord's Supper, which they call "The Memorial." At their memorial service no one gets to actually partake of the wine and bread. They pass it out and you are supposed to just pass it to the person next to you. This si  supposedly because no one can possibly know who is of the 144,000, and they don't want to leave out the possibility that one of the 144,000 might actually be in their congregation and therefore worthy to partake of the bread and wine.

They get a tremendous amount of mileage out of the 144,000 that is nowhere to be found in Scripture.

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1 hour ago, Jim_Alaska said:

This is true to the extreme, Mike. They are adamant that only 144,000 go to heaven, all other JW's get to spend eternity on what they call "Paradise Earth."

This imaginary 144,000 are so special that only they get to actually partake of what we call the Lord's Supper, which they call "The Memorial." At their memorial service no one gets to actually partake of the wine and bread. They pass it out and you are supposed to just pass it to the person next to you. This si  supposedly because no one can possibly know who is of the 144,000, and they don't want to leave out the possibility that one of the 144,000 might actually be in their congregation and therefore worthy to partake of the bread and wine.

They get a tremendous amount of mileage out of the 144,000 that is nowhere to be found in Scripture.

I've thought about going to one of their memorials and partaking, with a knowing smile. Seriously, how could they know otherwise?

 

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Not sure why they would think the new heaven and earth are just the same heaven and earth, but 'fixed'. Don't they know that this earth, and all creation, has been permanently defiled by sin? They MUST be made anew. Even Heaven itself was tainted when Lucifer fell and took some of the angels with him-so there needs to be a passing of the old and a making of a new.  This is the same reason there was no pre-Adamic earth with a gap: because the taint of sin would have been upon that priginal earth, and no 'washing' of it could make a difference. Only by starting with a newly-created heaven and earth could God, at the completion, look at it all and declare it all very good: it would still have been tainted with sin, filled with the bones of the dead, not 'good' at all.

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On 4/3/2017 at 9:29 AM, Ukulelemike said:

I've thought about going to one of their memorials and partaking, with a knowing smile. Seriously, how could they know otherwise?

 

They would know because you are not a JW.

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On 03/04/2017 at 7:29 AM, DaveW said:

Basically:

144000 = super special place in heaven grade 1.

Regular faithful JW = spot in regular grade heaven.

And here's the interesting bit:

Sincere religious folk who are not JW's = grade three heaven, which I think is actually "new earth".

The rest just stop being anything or anywhere - no hell, no other judgrment.

 

When I was told that I said "If you are right, I still get there because I have a sincere faith; but if am right, you spend eternity in Hell. Why would I change for that?"

That is a good path to take - tell them that you are a faithful Christian and ask them what happens to people like you.

JWs  don't beleive in Hell they say it should read Hades and that is just the grave, which, they say, is what the ancient Greeks believed. which of course the ancient Greeks did not believe. I had quite a long discussion on that with some a few years ago.

More recently, the week before last in fact, I had a knock on the door and there were two young women  who wanted to discuss the bible with me.  They did not offer any literature which was a first but one had the JW bible on a Samsung tablet.  I said I would get my bible and they said which bible was it? and I sad it was the King James.  I can't remember all the conversation as it was rather long, but I asked if they were saved. They said  "We can't be sure".  I answered that the bible says we can, and  the younger one with the tablet quoted John 3:16. I think she implied that you only have eternal life while you believed, but I said, If it is eternal or everlasting, It cannot be everlasting if you can lose it.  

At some time during the converstion, the postie delivered a bundle of Evangelical Times for our churh, and I asked them if they would accept a copy and they said no.  I  said you expect me to read your publications but you won't read mine. They said "WE are firm in our beliefs."  

 

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On 5/2/2017 at 7:41 PM, Invicta said:

JWs  don't beleive in Hell they say it should read Hades and that is just the grave, which, they say, is what the ancient Greeks believed. which of course the ancient Greeks did not believe. I had quite a long discussion on that with some a few years ago.

More recently, the week before last in fact, I had a knock on the door and there were two young women  who wanted to discuss the bible with me.  They did not offer any literature which was a first but one had the JW bible on a Samsung tablet.  I said I would get my bible and they said which bible was it? and I sad it was the King James.  I can't remember all the conversation as it was rather long, but I asked if they were saved. They said  "We can't be sure".  I answered that the bible says we can, and  the younger one with the tablet quoted John 3:16. I think she implied that you only have eternal life while you believed, but I said, If it is eternal or everlasting, It cannot be everlasting if you can lose it.  

At some time during the converstion, the postie delivered a bundle of Evangelical Times for our churh, and I asked them if they would accept a copy and they said no.  I  said you expect me to read your publications but you won't read mine. They said "WE are firm in our beliefs."  

 

Watchtower literature says that the Jewish faith believed in a common grave (soul sleep), but they were influenced by the Greeks which led to the immortal soul belief.

I have watched several YouTube videos of Christian's attempting to evangelize JWs, and it is unimpressive to say the least. I believe our approach is all wrong. Many Christians start conversations with JWs thinking that if they convince them that heaven is open to everyone not just 144,000, they will get excited and leave the Society. The problem is most JWs DONT want to go to heaven. They want to live on a paradise earth with their resurrected wives, moms,dads, children, etc.. To go to heaven for a JW means you transform into some weird immortal invisible "spirit creature" apart from their families. 

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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
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      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
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      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

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