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Resource for Pastors' Wives


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I am looking to see if anyone knows of a forum or something specifically for pastors' wives.

See, we are in a very remote area, with no access to get to meetings or other good IFB churches with mature, long-time preachers and their wives, to whom we might speak for advice.

SHort version: My wife and I are at odds on how some of the people in our church ought to be handled. Without specifics, my wife and his wife have never really gotten along, but then, the othe wife is young, and quite immature-she doesn't want to read her Bible, refuses to take advice, especially from my wife, as well as from me, and sees any disagreement as an attack. Her husband is sick, going to have a surgery soon that is hoped will take care of the problem, because he has seemd to want to be active in the church. BUT, he also seems to have an issue with lying, hiding things from us because he knows we will disapprove, like playing Pokemon Go, which he swears he doesn't play anymore, but apparently is open about playing with another fellow in the church, who I guess he assumes won't say anything about it. He claims to carry a bachelor's degree in biochemistry, yet he has no knowledge of the basics of that kind of information, ( my wife is very involved in sciences). So we are pretty certain he's lying because you don't get a four-year degree and remember nothing about what you studied. BUt of course, how to prove.

So basically, my wife's thing is, just directly and bluntly accuse them of these issues, call them out bluntly about everything, and send them away. Whereas my belief is, because they're young and immature, we keep teaching them the truth, deal with specific issues as they come up, and pray the Lord will change their hearts. I suspect the answer is somewhere in between. 

But my wife can't keep from jumping and speaking whenever she feels it is 'the right time', and it can be harmful. And to keep from going any further, I think it would be good for her to speak with other pastor's wives, as I am sure this isn't just something particular to us, and get some experienced views from mature godly women, and how they worked their dynamics with their husbands.  You know, we just literally have no resources. Yes, I can say, "I am the man and you'l do thinsg as I say!", but I suspect most of us men know how well that works.

So, any ideas? I think she tried to get into some of the ladies' rooms here but couldn't do it and I'm not sure how to help there, either. And I really don't just want a forum of women complaining about how terrible it is to be a pastor's wife-we have seen plenty of those. If we can't maintain our relationship in a godly manner without continual arguing about these kinds of things, how can I lead the house of God?

Thanks, All

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My instinct is to suggest that the first place to go for such answer, is scripture.  If you haven't already, or even if you have before, do an in depth study on the subjects of authority and conflict resolution in scripture.  

1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

Yes, I can say, "I am the man and you'l do thinsg as I say!", but I suspect most of us men know how well that works.

As Christians, I don't think it's as much about us getting our desired results as it is obeying the commands and processes laid out for us by God.  If we are following God's directions for certain situations, but others are being disobedient or we are otherwise not getting the desired result, it does not follow that we try something other than what God has laid out.

We know that husbands are to honor and love their wives and treat them with respect and dignity (and vice versa): 1 Corinthians 7:3-5, 1 Peter 3:7,  Ephesians 5:25, Ephesians 5:28, Ephesians 5:33 &c.

We know that women are to submit to their husbands and they are not to have authority over the man: Ephesians 5:22-24,  1 Timothy 2:12.

We know that we are to expose and rebuke sin amongst believers, in love, meekness and charity: Matthew 18:15-17, Luke 17:3,  1 Corinthians 13, Galatians 6:1,  1 Timothy 5:20, James 5:19-20.

As I said, I would start in those places and go through the processes that God has designed.  If they don't submit, treat them in the way we are told to treat them, or, if scripture is silent on further treatment, allow God to work.

 

Edited by Brother Stafford
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1 hour ago, Brother Stafford said:

My instinct is to suggest that the first place to go for such answer, is scripture.  If you haven't already, or even if you have before, do an in depth study on the subjects of authority and conflict resolution in scripture.  

As Christians, I don't think it's as much about us getting our desired results as it is obeying the commands and processes laid out for us by God.  If we are following God's directions for certain situations, but others are being disobedient or we are otherwise not getting the desired result, it does not follow that we try something other than what God has laid out.

We know that husbands are to honor and love their wives and treat them with respect and dignity (and vice versa): 1 Corinthians 7:3-51 Peter 3:7,  Ephesians 5:25, Ephesians 5:28, Ephesians 5:33 &c.

We know that women are to submit to their husbands and they are not to have authority over the man: Ephesians 5:22-24,  1 Timothy 2:12.

We know that we are to expose and rebuke sin amongst believers, in love, meekness and charity: Matthew 18:15-17, Luke 17:3,  1 Corinthians 13, Galatians 6:1,  1 Timothy 5:20, James 5:19-20.

As I said, I would start in those places and go through the processes that God has designed.  If they don't submit, treat them in the way we are told to treat them, or, if scripture is silent on further treatment, allow God to work.

 

Thanks Brother. yes, scripture is, of course, the first recourse. I think what I'm looking for, though, is also HOW this submission is practically carried out by other pastors' wives. She understands the issues of submission and such, but HOW to do it correctly, particularly in such areas. After all, the Bible also says that the older women are to teach and train the younger women, which is what she is, admittedly, trying to do. I just don't know that her method, which is point-blank bluntness, ("You're a liar, you do such-and-such," etc), is always the right way. I agree that some people need just that, and can accept it and learn from it-both she and I personally work well that way. But not everyone does and she doesn't seem to accept that not everyone receives instruction the same way she does. And so, this brings the arguments between us. I guess it is hard for a pastor to try to teach his own wife and be her pastor, as well. And this is why I was hoping to find some godly preachers' wives who might have some experience in how to do this, to accept husband as both husband AND pastor.

Another thought, would be maybe a book on the subject, written by a godly pastor's wife for others, as my wife prefers to learn by reading.

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8 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

I just don't know that her method, which is point-blank bluntness, ("You're a liar, you do such-and-such," etc), is always the right way. I agree that some people need just that, and can accept it and learn from it-both she and I personally work well that way. 

But, it seems that we are told to just just that; not to beat around the bush, but to address it head on; in meekness and charity, of course.

8 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

But not everyone does and she doesn't seem to accept that not everyone receives instruction the same way she does.

It just seem to me that we are told how to confront people:  Bluntly; privately, at first, then publicly.  I'm sure that not all people will respond to God's methods, but I don't think that we should seek out softer or alternative methods simply because of the fact that people are hard headed or hard hearted.

As I said before, it is not our job to make sure that people respond, it is our job to address situations in the ways that God tells us to.  If they still rebel, unless they are our children (or if someone wants to make a case for using a rod on wives or church members) then we must let God deal with them.

Edited by Brother Stafford
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10 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

But, it seems that we are told to just just that; not to beat around the bush, but to address it head on; in meekness and charity, of course.

It just seem to me that we are told how to confront people:  Bluntly; privately, at first, then publicly.  I'm sure that not all people will respond to God's methods, but I don't think that we should seek out softer or alternative methods simply because of the fact that people are hard headed or hard hearted.

As I said before, it is not our job to make sure that people respond, it is our job to address situations in the ways that God tells us to.  If they still rebel, unless they are our children (or if someone wants to make a case for using a rod on wives or church members) then we must let God deal with them.

You know you're making me look bad-lol.

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The older women are encouraged to "teach" the younger women. Not accuse them, rebuke, correct them or run them off. That's not teaching. That's not your job as the pastor either (I know, "reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering.."). It's her husband's job. And if he won't do it, it don't get done. He'll answer to God, if he's saved. He's her head, not your wife. Not to be ugly, but how can a pastor's wife not actually, truely subject to her own husband correct and accuse another wife who is galloping around with the bit in her teeth?

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13 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

See, we are in a very remote area, with no access to get to meetings or other good IFB churches with mature, long-time preachers and their wives, to whom we might speak for advice.

Oliver :15_1_63: ,

This is a good idea.

A lot of times women can help one another in areas that men cannot. Sometimes, some fellowship, talk, discussion, with other ladies in her position, can be a help, an encouragement, and a blessing.

Did not Rebecca Young have some devotions? or Bible studies? or something of this nature in the Christian LIving / OnLine Baptist Ladies forum at one time? Maybe your wife could get with her? Or, maybe your wife could start something for the ladies?:4_6_2v:

 

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Uke, maybe have your wife pm me? We can discuss doing something in the ladies' forum, with some ground rules as to no complaining. Or, if she's interested, I'd be glad to chat with her via pm. While I've not been a pastor's wife as yet (that will possibly change soon), I have had to learn to deal with myself and my natural tendency to be blunt (very often too blunt and with no tact at all) and how to have/show compassion without accepting sin. Not that I have all the answers, but mayhap talking things over with a woman of probably close temperament would help - us both, actually. 

But, since things have been discussed here, I would have to say that one thing we need to be is wise as serpents and harmless as doves. That would involve making VERY sure that blunt confrontation is what God would have us use as a tool for a particular person. It is not always the way to go. Many times being too blunt can harm an immature believer, and especially one who already has issues with the reprover. And if someone is scornful (as this woman seems to be), reproof falls on deaf ears anyway.

 

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I wouldn't mind starting up some lessons and discussion in the ladies forums, if other ladies are also interested. I may revive a couple of old threads.

Personally, I am currently trying to help/counsel a few women in my church, and I also have next to no resources to fall back on, aside from the Bible and advice from the Pastor when needed. Unfortunately I am facing a situation that has caused me to seriously think about taking an online course in Christian counseling as well as some other courses that I really feel will be helpful in similar situations.

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You must let the Holy Spirit direct you here.  There are times to be honest and truthful and you can actually see evidence of the good fruit that results.  There are also times to be cautious and again, you can actually see evidence of this "approach" also.  In other words, we have all actually seen with our eyes the "successful" fruit of each.  My only comment might be that there are few that take the "honest and truthful" approach these days even though that might be what is spiritually needed.  Too many pastors and leaders want to tip-toe around issues as they don't want to "rock the boat," even when that is the proper course of action. Much prayer and discernment is needed any time these issues are dealt with.

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I would suggest an alternative method of helping this woman.  It has been my experience that those who are confronted with error at a time in which they are not desiring nor willing to be confronted never respond well even in the best scenarios.

Romans 2:4 states that the goodness of God bringeth men to repentance and we have all been in that place where we expected God to chastise us and instead we received a blessing.  There are times that confrontation is an absolute necessity as there can be no true peace without confrontation.  But, there are other times when a sugar cube opens the heart for gentle persuasion.  It is not always essential that a person be confronted considering love covereth a multitude of sins.  Always keep in mind that our primary duty is to restore and not destroy; if you will follow the interactions Jesus had with others during his earthly ministry I believe you will find that even with those who were in open sin he rebuked softly leaving the final choice to those he spoke with.

A negative approach will likely result in a negative response, I believe your wife should take this as a challenge to build a relationship with the woman in question.  Perhaps offering a time of refreshment that fits into the other woman’s schedule.  Not to discuss problems but build bridges of trust, it is likely that the other woman has reasons for not trusting or responding to the offered advice.  Don’t forget that Paul opinion of John Mark changed over the years because of Barnabas was willing to be an encourager and mentor.  Mark grew in the Lord and Paul grew in grace a remarkable result for both. 

Try not to view this as a challenge to authority but an opportunity to love a person while they are struggling for answers. 

As to your wife getting counsel from other women I believe there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors.  Bi-vocational makes it nearly impossible to fellowship with other folks in the ministry (I did it for 12 years) but there is still the telephone and email as well as forums.  Also, I am not one who believes you cannot be friends with your church members for the local church is a family and everyone in a family should be friends. 

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14 hours ago, weary warrior said:

The older women are encouraged to "teach" the younger women. Not accuse them, rebuke, correct them or run them off. That's not teaching. That's not your job as the pastor either (I know, "reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering.."). It's her husband's job. And if he won't do it, it don't get done. He'll answer to God, if he's saved. He's her head, not your wife. Not to be ugly, but how can a pastor's wife not actually, truely subject to her own husband correct and accuse another wife who is galloping around with the bit in her teeth?

The problem is, a lot of what my wife is also dealing with, with this young lady, is that the young lady hhas always been specifically passively, (and not-so-passively) aggressive toward my wife. We have had her in the church for some 6 years, off and on, from when she was an older teen. She would fool around on her phone, flirt with ANY young man who came in, and when told to stop, (particularly by my wife), she would get mad and mouthy, even had her step-father come to church one day to tell us to stop harrassing her. He was an old friend of my wifes, and we let him know what was going on.

Eventually I had to put her out because she decided that, since she couldn't find a nice guy, she decided she was a lesbian. When we spoke with her about that, and the sin involved, since she supposed herself to be a Christian, she got mad at me, and her aunt, who thought it was wonderful, also got on my case, and her mother, as well. So I told her that until she got right with the Lord she was no longer welcome at the church.   It was a couple years later she sowed up one day with her new husband and apologized for her behaviour. Her husband got saved, and later, so did she, (ostensibly), and they have been in since, for a couple years now. But this ongoing feud with my wife has never ended and the other day she admitted that she has been mad at my wife for the last six years and has never gotten over it. Any direction on modest clothes she ignores, and her husband really doesn't have the presence of mind, apparently, to remind her. I have sent her home to change becuse of what she sometimes wears. She rebels, and it's pretty obvious now that her rebellion is against my wife, and I suspect it is because she has a lousy relationship with her mother, and she sees my wife as someone kind of trying to mother her.

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2 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

The problem is, a lot of what my wife is also dealing with, with this young lady, is that the young lady hhas always been specifically passively, (and not-so-passively) aggressive toward my wife. We have had her in the church for some 6 years, off and on, from when she was an older teen. She would fool around on her phone, flirt with ANY young man who came in, and when told to stop, (particularly by my wife), she would get mad and mouthy, even had her step-father come to church one day to tell us to stop harrassing her. He was an old friend of my wifes, and we let him know what was going on.

Eventually I had to put her out because she decided that, since she couldn't find a nice guy, she decided she was a lesbian. When we spoke with her about that, and the sin involved, since she supposed herself to be a Christian, she got mad at me, and her aunt, who thought it was wonderful, also got on my case, and her mother, as well. So I told her that until she got right with the Lord she was no longer welcome at the church.   It was a couple years later she sowed up one day with her new husband and apologized for her behaviour. Her husband got saved, and later, so did she, (ostensibly), and they have been in since, for a couple years now. But this ongoing feud with my wife has never ended and the other day she admitted that she has been mad at my wife for the last six years and has never gotten over it. Any direction on modest clothes she ignores, and her husband really doesn't have the presence of mind, apparently, to remind her. I have sent her home to change becuse of what she sometimes wears. She rebels, and it's pretty obvious now that her rebellion is against my wife, and I suspect it is because she has a lousy relationship with her mother, and she sees my wife as someone kind of trying to mother her.

My brother, all of this, in my opinion , only strengthens my position. As long as there is a feud with the man-of-God's wife, this feud will always consume this girl's focus and attention. She will not hear the man of God and the word of God that he teaches.

I've been counseling in the ministry since 1996. I have a mom, 3 sisters, a wife and 4 daughters. And the Bible. I know what Im talking about. Women get so emotionally wrapped up and personally involved in fights with other women, us men can't even begin to relate. Thats why God wont let them teach or lead the men in church. They dont seperate out their emotions, and everything is personal. It sounds like this has become personal with your wife as well. Which is natural. But "where no wood is, there the fire goeth out". Your wife's involvement in this girl's rebellion is, in your own words, resented. And I'm sure it's not doing your wife much good either.

How would I handle the situation?

First - I would remove my wife from it completely, for her own well-being. My wife's ministry is as my help meet. Not my associate pastor of women. I would remove her out from under a burden she is shouldering that she was not created or designed to bare, because I love her more than any church member, and it is my job to protect her. Often from herself.

Second - I would go have coffee or something with the young husband. He will never be a man unless treated like a man and given the responsibility as such. I would gently lay the responsibility of his wife's behaviour squarely on his shoulders, and then offer to be there to encourage and counsel him while he learned to carry it. But he has to carry it. No one else. God didn't give it to anyone else, so no one else has the right. All of your effort should be focused on him, by default you will be handling the other situation by extension.

Third - I would completely back off all pressure that my wife and I have put on this young lady to conform or perform in any manner. We would love her, pray for her and gently place her in the hands of her head. As long as someone else is always handling his responsibility for him, why should he ever step up? 

I know. From reading the other posts on here, I'm pretty sure that I will be standing alone in this position. And it's OK. But I feel I've given you the counsel that God said give, as difficult as it is to hear and understand in this modern age.

 

Edited by weary warrior
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