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On Wed Apr 05 2017 at 6:13 AM, D-28 Player said:

And if you continue as you have I will expect you to be unnecessarily aggressive and rude.

 

1 hour ago, D-28 Player said:

And yet he acknowledged that I did 

Only after you first consistently ignored him, and then when he pressed you, you accused him of aggression and rudeness. Falsely, I might add, for he was neither. 

 

You only acknowledged him when he basically forced you by pointing out you tactic of ignoring anyone you don't want to deal with.

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You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doc

OK, if Bro. Dave will not "rag on MacArthur" I will. I will also disagree with Bro. Dave where he said that MacArthur needs to be taken very carefully. I don't think he should be "taken" at all. MacAr

Deserves a double "like" in my opinion. ;)

Not the whole story. When I got saved, God convicted me of Sin, Righteousness, and Judgment. Through the preaching of the Gospel and the wooing power (drawing) of the Holy Ghost, I was "convinced" of

I was a new, young preacher a little over 20 years ago, and was visiting a church in another state in the deep south while on missionary deputation to go overseas. There was a book shelf in the missio

By the way, an interesting thing happened to me this afternoon, after Brother "D-28 Player" was banned from the forum.  I have a Facebook page for my publishing ministry, Shepherding the Flock Ministr

Because it was asked, and it is not appropriate to further pollute that thread.   MacArthur promotes: multiple bible (per)versions. Calvinism (and I don't care what name you

No I am not. I read it this morning on their website. They do not call it that, but they teach it. Just like I don't think you will find the name "Calvin" on their website, they are absolute

Brother "D-28 Player," You and I BOTH know full well that NO man has an "infinite knowledge" of anything.  Furthermore, I have NOT claimed "infinite knowledge" concerning the Calvinistic system. 

Calvinism is not a "secondary issue" at all. In Calvinism salvation is through the choice of God - in the Bible salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This is another Gospel.

Brother "D-28 Player," You are indeed correct. I do NOT agree with all that you have presented above, but I DO agree with some of it.  Therefore, allow me to present a Biblical examination of tha

I think simply, does that make me simple minded?  I have never found anywhere in scripture that anyone was predistinated to be saved. Indeed, the verses offered in Rom.8 plainly show that any pred

D-28 has been banned. Had he given the appearance of actually discussing instead of dissing, he would have been allowed to stay.  That begs another new word - "supergoodbyeism."  And, by the way

Brother "D-28 Player," Actually, I already knew the Calvinistic position on this matter.  Indeed, the Calvinistic system presents the matter as follows: 1.  A lost sinner is spiritually dead

Unless "you all" really means a subset of "you all"... ;)

Ah yes...more of the "attempting to shame"... I still find it interesting that while claiming to be willing to answer questions and explain Calvinism, you still don't do it. Rather than "correcti

Mark 8:34-38 - "And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  For wh

That has been my observation all along too. Since becoming aware of Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, Reformed Theology, etc. and after studying it to some extent, my conclusion was that it appealed

...and where is "Fundamental Faith" in all of this? I thought he wanted to have some intellectual discussions. Oh wait...I forgot. He supramisrepresentedismed himself when he joined the board. Feignin

Indeed.  Yet while the Calvinistic system teaches that "whosoever SHALL CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," the Calvinistic system also teaches that NOT all human individuals shall have th

Isn't a witness someone who provides testimony based upon personal knowledge? If so, then to witness to someone is to give testimonial to the truth of the gospel. I honestly don't see its misuse.

I just said to my son last night that it looked like we were having our "annual influx of Calvinists". It does seem as though they organise at a board to come here and "have some fun" every so of

BROTHER "D-28 Player," First, I desire your recognition that I myself have only referenced you as "brother" throughout my discussion with you.  I myself choose to do this only if I feel comfortab

Triple LIKE

Folks, we must remember that definitions of certain terms are different from the Calvinist viewpoint. While on the surface, the definitions are claimed to be the same and used in the same ways, those

Calvinists will typically always accuse Non-Calvinists of misunderstanding or misrepresenting Calvinism.

Brethren, I still stand by my above quote. I am not going to change a word. Alan

#1 Judas Iscariot was told to "follow me"....... #2 The Bible says the man at Siloam could not get to the pool to be healed, so Jesus did it. And Jesus healed many more people in the NT than were

When I teach against Calvinism, one of the things I strive most to do is to simplify. I have been reading the posts above, and though there is much that I agree with, it comes across sometimes as extr

D-28 said to me (in a badly quoted post); "That's exactly what it means, Einstein. " And that wouldn't be at all rude, would it?

The American Heritage dictionary defines plagiarize as follows: "To use (the ideas or work of another) as one's own or without attribution." Every saint who attributed the work of salvation; by t

Brother Scott, One of the differences between what we are doing and what most (not all) Calvinist's would do in a discussion is that you will not pull the, wounded quail maneuver, and strive to m

No, there is nothing I can do to earn a gift. But I CAN refuse to accept it. If I have no choice in receiving it, it is not a gift. It is a law, a mandate, a forced inoculation, medicine forced down t

Speaking as Pastor Scott Markle, the opponent of Calvinism, Brother "Weary Warrior," I wholeheartedly acknowledge the need for balance.  In fact, that was also the underlying thrust of my ab

Speaking as Pastor Scott Markle, the opponent of Calvinism, In the last fifteen years, I myself have observed Calvinistic doctrine "take over" a number of good Independent Baptist churches in our

Hmmm...let's see who's being deceitful....   It would appear that no one is being deceitful, yet your answer gave a certain impression. You never said whether you were saved in a church

I agree with you 100% Weary!  But the fact remains that the influx of Calvinism into SBC churches and now IB churches is because those who are on the pastoral selection boards have no idea what q

To all, Acting the part of the "Calvinism advocate" is NOT as easy as it may sound.  While presenting the Calvinist's side, I already know my non-Calvinist arguments against each point that I pre

This is Pastor Scott Markle, the opponent of Calvinism, speaking (because of the manner in which I have lately been engaging in this thread, it has become necessary for me to specify who I am represen

Talk anout your strawmen! No one mentioned universalism except you. I suspect your universalism and my universalism are a bit different. Universalism is the heretical idea that all men will event

That much I do see, understand and support. Iron sharpening iron among ourselves is of utmost importance. And the continued study between Bro Orval and yourself I completely support, and will read and

What a fascinating thread I should have read it earlier.  One of the things I have struggled with and spoke with my pastor about has been revealed by many in this thread. My question in general is thi

Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board. Fortunately folks like this

I believe it comes down to whether a person has been genuinely convicted of their sinful state and need of salvation...and whether they are willing to accept their need of salvation in regard to their

I didn't wait. The guy is banned. 

I have been served a Complement Sandwich a few times by mid-level managers. Worst technique ever! For my educated Calvinist friends who use this approach, It just so happens I read this article in the

Hey bro, I believe it's pretty much like Brother Dave said. In Calvinist belief, God "enables" a sinner who is totally Unable (The "T") who has NO RESISTANCE to the "Irresistable grace". That is

I wish to express my agreement with Brother "Wretched" on this point.  

Honesty though NN, I am guessing you don't feel Christ-like on this forum sometimes when having to re-explain things to Calvinists, etc.. but you come across as patient and kind and that is what count

Understood brother and your Christlike attitude is always a blessing!

wretched, This is something that I still struggle with. I know that you and I have had our differences in the past, but believe it or not, I have the utmost respect for you. I find your down-to-e

Well, if I were really going to delve further into this (of which I don't have time right now), these are the steps that I probably would take... I would try to find out what the English word "

Calvinism IS NOT A SECONDARY ISSUE.  I prefer to align with the Bible than what you say about various people.    

This is another way to put it. Mat 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Well, personally Jim I would only take MacArthur to the Rubbish bin, but some here appear determined to defend him and accept him, and hence my warning to be careful IF THEY ARE SO DETERMINED.  R

Hello to all, I have had ample time to think and pray while enjoying vacation and during this time I have realized that I have too many irons in the fire.  I do want to pursue Brother Scott and I

Would seem so considering the verse you quoted.  But witness is to see or experience something and to testifie is to bear witness, I believe.

This is Pastor Scott Markle, an opponent of Calvinism, speaking as a "Calvinism advocate," (All who read, please remember that I myself oppose the Calvinistic system; therefore, in my own position of

1 John 4 4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every

My "Like" above is for Bro. Wayne's comments, not for the video.  

By staying away from the Greek which is used many times as a backdoor attempt to correct or change what the KJV says. "Foreknow" and "Foreordained" are not the same words in the English language. Not

My personal take on it is that "witness" applies to both seeing/experiencing something...and...to testify about something. For example... To testify... Acts 4:33 And with great power gave

Certainly I would agree that the two English words "foreordained" and "foreknown" are two completely different words with two completely different root meanings in the English.  However, my question s

Brother Scott, You have anticipated my next approach in our discussion as I shall indeed go to 1 Peter 1 but before hand I will also introduce a couple of your apologists and their claims concern

Yeah, about 15 minutes ago my wife made a questioning comment about Online Baptist as well.

Verse 20 says "who" 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,  That means "the Word", the Wonderful Counselor, the Migh

I will be gone for several days and will pick up discussion when I return. vacation beckons!!  

If by foreknowledge you mean that God had foreknowledge of what we would decide, so predestined us, as one US pastor 's wife said to me.  Firstly that in no way is predestination, and secondly it mean

.....how loving and patient He MUST be.......... :)

As for myself, seeking to remain as close to the grammatical wording of the passage itself, I would say that it refers unto our Lord Jesus Christ as - The Christ (the Messiah), the Lamb of God (as per

I'd stinkin' hug you if I could! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Lord also healed many who were brought to him...they came to him...he didn't go to them. Mark 1:29-34 and Mark 3:7-12 The woman who had an issue of blood (for 12 years) was healed...by her ow

What if it simply means, Ones he has "known" "before"......... Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son

You have said this before, but some of the things you have said over the years sure sounds like it. You certainly wouldn't be the first Calvinist who refuses to accept the name, but that doesn't

I can't help it, I have to revisit this......   How absolutely disgraceful to compare the pre-salvation sins of Paul with the active leadership activities of Calvin. Yes, Paul was respo

Yes, but not for personal salvation, but unto national honor and a special place in God's program of revealing the scriptures and bringing the Messiah into the world. the argument in Romans 9 wou

I have often wondered and mused about this idea of the “foreknowledge” of God. Rom 8:(29)  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he migh

Yeah, I wasn't entirely happy with my wording, but it is referring to Him being the Christ and all that entails.     

I personally appreciate all the comments and observations of the posters on this thread. Pastor Scott is very knowledgeable and willing to play the devils advocate so to speak and I am thankful for th

Who? Me? LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As the song goes..."He's still working on me..."

New words is fun :) maybe I shall reform myself.....NOT It wouldn't surprise me a bit if your creatively invented words in this thread show up in the next reformed merchandise someone writes as n

The false error of Calvinism must be stopped (either by an intellectual exercise as Pastor Markle points out, or by simple illustration as Weary Warrior points out). The false errors of Calvinism

To be honest, I guess I'm not enough of a guitar guru to know whether a guitar is too light or not. LOL! I used to just appreciate the sound and whether the strings were easily pressed against the fre

Think you've got me confused with D-28, Orval. At any rate, you haven't asked me any questions and I'm not a Calvinist.

Hello my friend, First of all, I did not say the Calvinist believes this I said the Calvinist is placing his faith in a system.  Your words “you have been misled” is typical of a Calvinist respon

Haha! I wish it were that!  I'll be completely honest...my guitar playing was a source of pride in my life. Even when I played at church, I wanted to hear how "good" I was. I gave it up. It might

Did ya break/lose yer fingers?

Yet those "truths" from the Calvinist, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrines of Grace, etc. are based on the system of Calvinism, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrine of Grace, etc. I was a finger player (when I p

So then, Brother "D-28 Player," While you could technically contend that within the Calvinistic system of belief justification and salvation are indeed THROUGH faith, would you acknowledge that i

I hear ya! 

That smallprint was just a joke about another thread, NN. :)

And if you continue as you have I will expect you to be unnecessarily aggressive and rude. Just as a physically dead man cannot dial 911 to call for help, so a spiritually dead man cannot call on

Total lack of respect for the moderators......... How about an apology to the moderators. Salyan, OFP, and Jim are moderators, and the way you have spoken to each of them is disrespectful.

Men or Christ is always the real issue in these debates. Remember the words God gave us through Paul: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas

No, actually, it's not (ridiculous, that is). Calvinism is a damnable heresy, and as such, it is a poison. I'm going to ask that you move on from this point.

No need to be like that..... I stand by what I wrote, and I disagree with your explanation of what I wrote. I doubt Bob will understand it, but I am sure he will attack it and smile while he

I thank you for the attempt, but your representation of my position is in error.

Rat poison is an apt illustration in this instance. I have used this illustration in teaching about avoiding false teaching.  Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey t

Trouble reading Bob? Or are you only interested bagging me? How much false teaching warrants a warning in your eyes? Hey, enjoy yourself, just chew carefully. I gave my warning,

I don't agree with Dr Macarthur on everything but to liken his ministry to "rat poison" is not only extreme but also failing to evince a Christlike spirit.  If you wish to disagree with this dear brot

I understand that decision completely. Although I don't play that great, I realized something one day: God made my fingers and the neurons in my brain and all the physical processes that make music po

From what I've seen in your writings I don't believe there is harmony between our understanding of "word of truth" or who "the lost" are. If you're truly a Calvinist then we cannot walk together -- in

Hey Orval, another story to add to your collection: Not long after I took over as Pastor at a small church  (my first - of two) I was asked if I would have a young man for a fixed time as assista

Ah...perhaps I sense a bit of supramisleadingism here... I well remember your ORIGINAL response to DaveW's question; in which, you later edited out all of your non-civil rhetoric. 

To D-28, I have waited all day for you to respond to my presupposition that Reformed place their faith in their election.  You have called me a liar on two occasions and yet you have not refuted

This was our first discourse of this thread. You resurrected a thread that had been dead for over a month for the express purpose of accusing me of bearing false witness. That is the way that you

If D-28 is a product and example of the Calvinist system of religion...I don't know who would want it. The sarcasm he seethes is exactly what the world has to offer. "He is proud, knowing nothing

Actually, I believe that the Calvinistic system would emphatically declare (according to its monergistic viewpoint) that GOD HIMSELF is the ONE WHO saves, but that He saves through "repentance and fai

Grateful for this, Orval. I responded to your post because I was interested in a particular argument that it seemed to me you were making about why a hypothetical Calvinist who professes faith in Jesu

Good grief man...you know not of what you speak. Shame on you.

No argument, but they way it is presented by MacArthur is unbiblical.

No worries - it left its original purpose a long time ago. I originally posted in response to a direct question to me in another thread, and I didn't want to pollute that thread.   

It is only slander if it is intentionally false. Since it is not false, it isn't slander. Besides, he said "Calvinism" not "Calvinists". Calvinism clearly does not believe in 'whosoever will', bu

Nice...your true colors are really revealing themselves today.  However, you still admitted that whosever has a caveat in a previous post.

They do thrive on their made-up words and definitions don't they..hilarious. I am always curious to the answer because I have never heard of a reformer/calvinist who got saved in a reformed churc

This is precisely why I asked him to define "whosoever" to make sure we are talking about the same thing - but he gave a dictionary definition rather than explaining what he means by it.   M

I also would like to point out that D-28 Player did not respond or aknowledge Pastor Markle's post where he laid out and defined Calvinism. Why do we even allow these type of people on this board

They also tend to accuse others of being rude and slandering them, even whilst they make all sorts of unfounded accusations against even the more considered among us (not me). For proof, I would

Such vitriol, such sarcasm, from such a fine and well spoken patriarch of the Calvinist system.  It appears everyone in this thread qualifies for your "correct" or I could say correction. It appear

I spoke of the system you promote. Did you come to argue and attempt self-gratification? If you came to attempt to shake foundations, you can't shake mine, my foundation is the creator of heaven and e

I actually find it funny that there has been very little discussion about any other aspect of Macarthur's false doctrines, but it certainly has attracted the Calvinists from their hidey holes. Th

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be ac

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7 hours ago, DaveW said:

 

Only after you first consistently ignored him, and then when he pressed you, you accused him of aggression and rudeness. Falsely, I might add, for he was neither. 

 

You only acknowledged him when he basically forced you by pointing out you tactic of ignoring anyone you don't want to deal with.

Actually, he was both, as you have been. 

Because you think I'm a Calvinist, your hatred of Calvinists has come through in every post. That's why I told you I wouldn't take your bait in the other thread. I've already put one poster on ignore because he couldn't be civil. 

I've literally been told in this thread that I am not saved just because the poster thinks I'm a Calvinist. That you guys think I'm not a Christian because you think I'm a Calvinist is your problem, not mine. 

7 hours ago, DaveW said:

Would you care to define who makes up the "whosoever" precisely?

Rather than leaving it up to us to try figure out what you mean by "whosoever".

pronoun;, possessive whosesoever; objective whomsoever.
1.
whoever; whatever person:
Edited by D-28 Player
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Folks, we must remember that definitions of certain terms are different from the Calvinist viewpoint. While on the surface, the definitions are claimed to be the same and used in the same ways, those definitions may (and do) contain caveats. All doesn't mean all, whosoever doesn't mean whosoever, etc...

Calvinism's "regeneration" HAS to take place first. If it didn't, there's a bit of a conundrum...in order to harmonize with the other points of their soteriology, if "regeneration" didn't take place prior to salvation, that would then mean that only a saved person could get saved...but that's Arminianism.

That's one of the reasons for why I said that I wouldn't "play the game". One can go back and forth all day long, but because some words have different meanings, both parties can proclaim, exclaim, and bring shame (until they're blue in the face) without having to admit that they're wrong or even possibly wrong. 

 

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5 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Folks, we must remember that definitions of certain terms are different from the Calvinist viewpoint. While on the surface, the definitions are claimed to be the same and used in the same ways, those definitions may (and do) contain caveats. All doesn't mean all, whosoever doesn't mean whosoever, etc...

Can't wait to share this comment with the group on Facebook. The Calvinists in that group already think you guys are a hoot. 

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4 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

Can't wait to share this comment with the group on Facebook. The Calvinists in that group already think you guys are a hoot. 

Ah yes...more of the "attempting to shame"...

I still find it interesting that while claiming to be willing to answer questions and explain Calvinism, you still don't do it. Rather than "correcting" my supposed misconception about definition differences, rather than "denying" my assertion of definition differences, rather than explaining Calvinism's view on certain terminology...you've chosen instead to try and shame me (and others here) publicly.

Tell your friends that No Nicolaitans said, "Hello!" 

...unless hello doesn't really mean hello.

If that's the case, tell your friends that No Nicolaitans said, "Suprahelloism!" 

:)

 

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D-28,

Would you be willing to answer a simple question from me?  Did you get saved in a Reformed church, or were you saved elsewhere and then became a member of a Reformed church? 

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Just now, Orval said:

D-28,

Would you be willing to answer a simple question from me?  Did you get saved in a Reformed church, or were you saved elsewhere and then became a member of a Reformed church? 

This is a little like asking, "Do you still beat your wife", as it assumes that I'm a member of a Reformed church. 

But in answer to your question, not only was I not saved in a Reformed church, the church I joined after I got saved was Arminian and when the one Reformed guy in that church tried to explain Reformed theology to me, I was almost as hateful and antagonistic toward him as you all are toward Calvinists.

I had so any of the same misconceptions about Reformed theology that you all have about Calvinism that it's safe to say I didn't really even know what it was until I had been a Christian for about ten years. 

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1 hour ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Folks, we must remember that definitions of certain terms are different from the Calvinist viewpoint. While on the surface, the definitions are claimed to be the same and used in the same ways, those definitions may (and do) contain caveats. All doesn't mean all, whosoever doesn't mean whosoever, etc...

Calvinism's "regeneration" HAS to take place first. If it didn't, there's a bit of a conundrum...in order to harmonize with the other points of their soteriology, if "regeneration" didn't take place prior to salvation, that would then mean that only a saved person could get saved...but that's Arminianism.

That's one of the reasons for why I said that I wouldn't "play the game". One can go back and forth all day long, but because some words have different meanings, both parties can proclaim, exclaim, and bring shame (until they're blue in the face) without having to admit that they're wrong or even possibly wrong. 

 

This is precisely why I asked him to define "whosoever" to make sure we are talking about the same thing - but he gave a dictionary definition rather than explaining what he means by it.

 

Maybe D-28 will then explain how he applies "whosoever" in John 3:16?

Otherwise we might think that the whosoever applies to anyone who believes.........

Feel free to explain your understanding of this verse and how "whosoever" works in it.

 

Edited by DaveW
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9 hours ago, DaveW said:

Only after you first consistently ignored him, and then when he pressed you, you accused him of aggression and rudeness. Falsely, I might add, for he was neither. 

You only acknowledged him when he basically forced you by pointing out you tactic of ignoring anyone you don't want to deal with.

2 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

Actually, he was both, as you have been. 

Because you think I'm a Calvinist, your hatred of Calvinists has come through in every post. That's why I told you I wouldn't take your bait in the other thread. I've already put one poster on ignore because he couldn't be civil. 

1 hour ago, D-28 Player said:

Can't wait to share this comment with the group on Facebook. The Calvinists in that group already think you guys are a hoot. 

BROTHER "D-28 Player,"

First, I desire your recognition that I myself have only referenced you as "brother" throughout my discussion with you.  I myself choose to do this only if I feel comfortable in acknowledging that the one with whom I am communicating is indeed a child of God and a fellow brother in Christ.  Even so, I call you -- BROTHER.

Second, as I have indicated in an earlier posting, I certainly acknowledge that I engaged in reproof against your continued avoidance of my question (which you have now answered, and I thank you).  As such, I believe that "reproof" could indeed fall under the definition of "aggression."  However, as I have also indicated in that earlier posting, I do NOT accept your accusation that I committed the SIN of "unnecessary" aggression and "rudeness."  So then, I would request that you might define for me your perception concerning the sin of "rudeness," in order that I might examine more closely if I have sinned against you and against the Lord my God.  If I have indeed committed such sin, it is my desire to make it right.  However, I would have you to note that IF your definition for the sin of "rudeness" encompasses any and all forms of reproof against another, then I will NOT accept that definition as being Biblically valid (since the act of reproof is Biblically defined as righteousness at times).

Third, I wish to make clear that although you yourself may be "saying bad things" about me to your outside group of Calvinistic friends, I myself have NOT spoken in relation to you with anyone apart from my engagements with you on this very thread.

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34 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Ah yes...more of the "attempting to shame"...

I still find it interesting that while claiming to be willing to answer questions and explain Calvinism, you still don't do it. Rather than "correcting" my supposed misconception about definition differences, rather than "denying" my assertion of definition differences, rather than explaining Calvinism's view on certain terminology...you've chosen instead to try and shame me (and others here) publicly.

Tell your friends that No Nicolaitans said, "Hello!" 

...unless hello doesn't really mean hello.

If that's the case, tell your friends that No Nicolaitans said, "Suprahelloism!" 

:)

 

They do thrive on their made-up words and definitions don't they..hilarious.

I am always curious to the answer because I have never heard of a reformer/calvinist who got saved in a reformed church. There maybe a case or two in history but I have never heard of it. In my experience, they are always "membership transfers". Then they claim to understand better how it all works after sincere Christians shared the Word of Life with them.  Had these folks checked their pride of life and stayed, they could have actually grown in Grace instead of trivial intellectualism. There may be an exception here or there but by enlarge this is what I have seen of them.

Strange bedfellow though... reformers all claim they are God's chosen people but had it not been for a sincere free will Christian caring for their souls, they would have never known they were God's special elect... It is quite ludicrous IMO. 

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Oh and by the way D-28, I  don't hate you for beong a calvinist - I feel sorry for you sure enough, but mostly I don't like your rude and abrasive manner.

And I think it is laughable that you are accusing others of it whilst holding a halo over your own head, but being just about as rude as you can be without being kicked off the board.

When that eventually happens, you will retreat to your little group and stand up proudly stating that the meanies over here persecuted you.

Just like the last name you joined up here under.....

Edited by DaveW
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23 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

I had so any of the same misconceptions about Reformed theology that you all have about Calvinism that it's safe to say I didn't really even know what it was until I had been a Christian for about ten years. (emphasis added by Pastor Scott Markle)

Brother "D-28 Player,"

With your usage of the phrase "you all," you have encompasses me also under the accusation concerning many "misconceptions about Reformed theology."  Yet in any earlier posting you indicated that I DID have an accurate presentation concerning the Calvinistic system of belief.  If there is a place in this thread wherein I have presented a misconception concerning the Calvinistic system, would you be willing to specify it for me and to explain precisely wherein I have that misconception?  I ask in order that I might maintain an accurate view of Calvinistic doctrine, even if I do not agree therewith.

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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2 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother "D-28 Player,"

With your usage of the phrase "you all," you have encompasses me also under that accusation concerning many "misconceptions about Reformed theology."  Yet in any earlier posting you indicated that I DID have an accurate presentation concerning Calvinistic system of belief.  If there is a place in this thread wherein I have presented a misconception concerning the Calvinistic system, would you be willing to specify it for me and explain wherein I have that misconception?  I ask in order that I might maintain an accurate view of Calvinistic doctrine, even if I do not agree therewith.

You've already asked this and I've already answered it. You even acknowledged that I answered it. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Third, I wish to make clear that although you yourself may be "saying bad things" about me to your outside group of Calvinistic friends, I myself have NOT spoken in relation to you with anyone apart from my engagements with you on this very thread.

I don't badmouth people to others I just quoted you all verbatim and let the Christians there make up their own minds. 

Anything that was done to make you look foolish was done by your own words. 

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Just now, D-28 Player said:

This is a little like asking, "Do you still beat your wife", as it assumes that I'm a member of a Reformed church. 

But in answer to your question, not only was I not saved in a Reformed church, the church I joined after I got saved was Arminian and when the one Reformed guy in that church tried to explain Reformed theology to me, I was almost as hateful and antagonistic toward him as you all are toward Calvinists.

I had so any of the same misconceptions about Reformed theology that you all have about Calvinism that it's safe to say I didn't really even know what it was until I had been a Christian for about ten years. 

I am somewhat taken aback by your comments in the second paragraph.  I do not believe that at any time I have attacked you though I have called you out for failure to answer charges leveled against Calvinism.  My stand against Reformed theology is that it teaches a belief in a system for salvation.  If you believe I was attacking you perhaps I used the wrong choice in my wording or you simply misunderstood what I was trying to say. 

None-the-less you were kind enough to answer my question and I thank you for it.  I have a follow up question if you would allow.  Amongst your reformed friends how many would say they were saved in a Reformed church?  I have spoken to between 30-50 men who are Reformed and to my knowledge only two of them were saved in a reformed church.  Nearly all of them were saved in a Baptist Church or led to Christ by a Baptist.  Here is my point.  The current Reformed movement has not gained strength by witnessing and bringing people to Christ, it has grown by proselyting members of other churches and teaching them the Reformed system.  Please do not read anything into this post emotionally, if we were setting at a table we simply be discussing this point not arguing. 

As an example, to what I am saying, 3 years ago the Reformed church in our area approached our pastor, for a meeting.  The purpose of the meeting was to find the secret of our numerical growth.  Their biggest hurdle was they were not evangelistic apart from their pulpit. Their system works against them in reaching the lost.  Those of reformed mind set have so bought into the system they have removed themselves from the process of bringing people to Christ. 

You don't have to answer this question as a matter of fact I would be shocked if you did.  What kind of personal evangelism do you practice?  when is the last time you actually led someone to Christ? Just think about it.  Let us take it a step further if we can, how many unsaved have you witnessed to, one on one?  Now ask your self how often you debate your system of belief in relation to witnessing to others about Christ.       

What I am asking you to do is look beyond the intellectual system and its propagation and look at the results.  Thanks for reading.

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4 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

I don't badmouth people to others I just quoted you all verbatim and let the Christians there make up their own minds. 

Anything that was done to make you look foolish was done by your own words. 

LOL! You knew exactly what you were doing...and your purpose for doing it. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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2 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

...........That's why I told you I wouldn't take your bait in the other thread. I've already put one poster on ignore because he couldn't be civil. 

.............

And in that thread was I baiting?

Was I rude?

Did I attack you in any way?

No, I thanked you for the information, checked the information, acknowledged that it was indeed as you said, agreed with your supposition that I would probably find it a bit weak, and left it right there.

I would appreciate it if you would at least acknowledge that in that instance I was entirely civil, and 100% honest in my enquiry.

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7 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

That's exactly what it means, Einstein

Nice...your true colors are really revealing themselves today. 

However, you still admitted that whosever has a caveat in a previous post.

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4 minutes ago, Orval said:

To DaveW,

My apologies as it just dawned on me (even though I read an earlier post referencing it) that we have gone way a field of your original post. 

No worries - it left its original purpose a long time ago.

I originally posted in response to a direct question to me in another thread, and I didn't want to pollute that thread. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother "D-28 Player,"

With your usage of the phrase "you all," you have encompasses me also under the accusation concerning many "misconceptions about Reformed theology."  Yet in any earlier posting you indicated that I DID have an accurate presentation concerning the Calvinistic system of belief.  If there is a place in this thread wherein I have presented a misconception concerning the Calvinistic system, would you be willing to specify it for me and to explain precisely wherein I have that misconception?  I ask in order that I might maintain an accurate view of Calvinistic doctrine, even if I do not agree therewith.

10 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

You've already asked this and I've already answered it. You even acknowledged that I answered it. 

Well then, Brother "D-28 Player,"

Since you have earlier indicated that I DID understand the Calvinistic system correctly and that I did NOT have any misconceptions thereof, would you please refrain from including me with the phrase "you ALL" when you make the accusation concerning misconceptions?  Technically, the phrase "you ALL" for that accusation would present a FALSE accusation against me, as per your own acknowledgement of my accuracy.
 

14 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

I don't badmouth people to others I just quoted you all verbatim and let the Christians there make up their own minds. 

Anything that was done to make you look foolish was done by your own words. 

Then I myself have NO need for concern that I appeared "foolish" in presenting a misconception concerning the Calvinistic system, since you yourself have earlier acknowledged that my presentations were accurate.
 

28 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

BROTHER "D-28 Player,"

First, I desire your recognition that I myself have only referenced you as "brother" throughout my discussion with you.  I myself choose to do this only if I feel comfortable in acknowledging that the one with whom I am communicating is indeed a child of God and a fellow brother in Christ.  Even so, I call you -- BROTHER.

Second, as I have indicated in an earlier posting, I certainly acknowledge that I engaged in reproof against your continued avoidance of my question (which you have now answered, and I thank you).  As such, I believe that "reproof" could indeed fall under the definition of "aggression."  However, as I have also indicated in that earlier posting, I do NOT accept your accusation that I committed the SIN of "unnecessary" aggression and "rudeness."  So then, I would request that you might define for me your perception concerning the sin of "rudeness," in order that I might examine more closely if I have sinned against you and against the Lord my God.  If I have indeed committed such sin, it is my desire to make it right.  However, I would have you to note that IF your definition for the sin of "rudeness" encompasses any and all forms of reproof against another, then I will NOT accept that definition as being Biblically valid (since the act of reproof is Biblically defined as righteousness at times).

Brother, were you yet planning to address my request concerning your definition for the sin of "rudeness"?  I genuinely DO want to make right with my Lord and with you, IF indeed I have committed that sin.  However, at this present time I do NOT see that I have committed such a sin.

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32 minutes ago, Orval said:

My stand against Reformed theology is that it teaches a belief in a system for salvation. 

ongst your reformed friends how many would say they were saved in a Reformed church?  I have spoken to between 30-50 men who are Reformed and to my knowledge only two of them were saved in a reformed church.  Nearly all of them were saved in a Baptist Church or led to Christ by a Baptist.  Here is my point.  The current Reformed movement has not gained strength by witnessing and bringing people to Christ, it has grown by proselyting members of other churches and teaching them the Reformed system.  Please do not read anything into this post emotionally, if we were setting at a table we simply be discussing this point not arguing. 

As an example, to what I am saying, 3 years ago the Reformed church in our area approached our pastor, for a meeting.  The purpose of the meeting was to find the secret of our numerical growth.  Their biggest hurdle was they were not evangelistic apart from their pulpit. Their system works against them in reaching the lost.  Those of reformed mind set have so bought into the system they have removed themselves from the process of bringing people to Christ. 

You don't have to answer this question as a matter of fact I would be shocked if you did.  What kind of personal evangelism do you practice?  when is the last time you actually led someone to Christ? Just think about it.  Let us take it a step further if we can, how many unsaved have you witnessed to, one on one?  Now ask your self how often you debate your system of belief in relation to witnessing to others about Christ.       

What I am asking you to do is look beyond the intellectual system and its propagation and look at the results.  Thanks for reading.

First you know that it's a lie to say "[Reformed theology] teaches a belief in a system for salvation".

Second given that some of the most prolific evangelists today are Reformed and that Reformed and Confessional churches are growing I think it's safe to say that quite a few people are saved in Reformed churches (and no I don't care whether or not you believe that)

Third many Baptists are Reformed in their theology

Third my "personal method of evangelism" is to present the Gospel and call sinners to repent and receive Christ

Fourth I've witnessed to hundreds of people Our church has an evangelism team of about eighty people 

Fifth I've never led anybody to Christ and neither have you That's the Holy Spirit's job and not ours But I have seen any people repent and receive Christ by faith including any in our own church who are producing good fruit unlike the people here 

Sixth I don't debate "my system of belief" in witnessing because Christ is the focus not my beliefs 

There Consider yourself shocked 

25 minutes ago, DaveW said:

And in that thread was I baiting?

Was I rude?

Did I attack you in any way?

No, I thanked you for the information, checked the information, acknowledged that it was indeed as you said, agreed with your supposition that I would probably find it a bit weak, and left it right there.

I would appreciate it if you would at least acknowledge that in that instance I was entirely civil, and 100% honest in my enquiry.

Yes You managed to be civil for two whole posts We might have had a nice conversation if not for your behavior in this thread 

21 minutes ago, DaveW said:

D-28 said to me (in a badly quoted post); "That's exactly what it means, Einstein. " And that wouldn't be at all rude, would it?

Just trying to fit in with the rest of you 

12 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Well then, Brother "D-28 Player,"

Since you have earlier indicated that I DID understand the Calvinistic system correctly and that I did NOT have any misconceptions thereof, would you please refrain from including me with the phrase "you ALL" when you make the accusation concerning misconceptions?  Technically, the phrase "you ALL" for that accusation would present a FALSE accusation against me, as per your own acknowledgement of my accuracy.

So have you used your infinite knowledge of Calvinism to correct any of your fellows' lies Or do you support their lies because you're fighting a perceived common enemy? 

Edited by D-28 Player
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