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3 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

Well that's a very creative description of Calvinism you have there. 

So have you kept the law?

My point wasn't that we have to keep the law, my point was that God based the law He gave to man upon His own sense of justice. It would seem odd that He would demand of us something He would not practice Himself in that respect. And as I said, it comes from a Calvinst preacher, not myself. I know, though, that there are many brands of 'Calvinism". You are just of a different brand than him, apparently.

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You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doc

OK, if Bro. Dave will not "rag on MacArthur" I will. I will also disagree with Bro. Dave where he said that MacArthur needs to be taken very carefully. I don't think he should be "taken" at all. MacAr

Deserves a double "like" in my opinion. ;)

Not the whole story. When I got saved, God convicted me of Sin, Righteousness, and Judgment. Through the preaching of the Gospel and the wooing power (drawing) of the Holy Ghost, I was "convinced" of

I was a new, young preacher a little over 20 years ago, and was visiting a church in another state in the deep south while on missionary deputation to go overseas. There was a book shelf in the missio

By the way, an interesting thing happened to me this afternoon, after Brother "D-28 Player" was banned from the forum.  I have a Facebook page for my publishing ministry, Shepherding the Flock Ministr

Because it was asked, and it is not appropriate to further pollute that thread.   MacArthur promotes: multiple bible (per)versions. Calvinism (and I don't care what name you

No I am not. I read it this morning on their website. They do not call it that, but they teach it. Just like I don't think you will find the name "Calvin" on their website, they are absolute

Brother "D-28 Player," You and I BOTH know full well that NO man has an "infinite knowledge" of anything.  Furthermore, I have NOT claimed "infinite knowledge" concerning the Calvinistic system. 

Calvinism is not a "secondary issue" at all. In Calvinism salvation is through the choice of God - in the Bible salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This is another Gospel.

Brother "D-28 Player," You are indeed correct. I do NOT agree with all that you have presented above, but I DO agree with some of it.  Therefore, allow me to present a Biblical examination of tha

I think simply, does that make me simple minded?  I have never found anywhere in scripture that anyone was predistinated to be saved. Indeed, the verses offered in Rom.8 plainly show that any pred

D-28 has been banned. Had he given the appearance of actually discussing instead of dissing, he would have been allowed to stay.  That begs another new word - "supergoodbyeism."  And, by the way

Brother "D-28 Player," Actually, I already knew the Calvinistic position on this matter.  Indeed, the Calvinistic system presents the matter as follows: 1.  A lost sinner is spiritually dead

Unless "you all" really means a subset of "you all"... ;)

Ah yes...more of the "attempting to shame"... I still find it interesting that while claiming to be willing to answer questions and explain Calvinism, you still don't do it. Rather than "correcti

Mark 8:34-38 - "And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  For wh

That has been my observation all along too. Since becoming aware of Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, Reformed Theology, etc. and after studying it to some extent, my conclusion was that it appealed

...and where is "Fundamental Faith" in all of this? I thought he wanted to have some intellectual discussions. Oh wait...I forgot. He supramisrepresentedismed himself when he joined the board. Feignin

Indeed.  Yet while the Calvinistic system teaches that "whosoever SHALL CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," the Calvinistic system also teaches that NOT all human individuals shall have th

Isn't a witness someone who provides testimony based upon personal knowledge? If so, then to witness to someone is to give testimonial to the truth of the gospel. I honestly don't see its misuse.

I just said to my son last night that it looked like we were having our "annual influx of Calvinists". It does seem as though they organise at a board to come here and "have some fun" every so of

BROTHER "D-28 Player," First, I desire your recognition that I myself have only referenced you as "brother" throughout my discussion with you.  I myself choose to do this only if I feel comfortab

Triple LIKE

Folks, we must remember that definitions of certain terms are different from the Calvinist viewpoint. While on the surface, the definitions are claimed to be the same and used in the same ways, those

Calvinists will typically always accuse Non-Calvinists of misunderstanding or misrepresenting Calvinism.

Brethren, I still stand by my above quote. I am not going to change a word. Alan

#1 Judas Iscariot was told to "follow me"....... #2 The Bible says the man at Siloam could not get to the pool to be healed, so Jesus did it. And Jesus healed many more people in the NT than were

When I teach against Calvinism, one of the things I strive most to do is to simplify. I have been reading the posts above, and though there is much that I agree with, it comes across sometimes as extr

D-28 said to me (in a badly quoted post); "That's exactly what it means, Einstein. " And that wouldn't be at all rude, would it?

The American Heritage dictionary defines plagiarize as follows: "To use (the ideas or work of another) as one's own or without attribution." Every saint who attributed the work of salvation; by t

Brother Scott, One of the differences between what we are doing and what most (not all) Calvinist's would do in a discussion is that you will not pull the, wounded quail maneuver, and strive to m

No, there is nothing I can do to earn a gift. But I CAN refuse to accept it. If I have no choice in receiving it, it is not a gift. It is a law, a mandate, a forced inoculation, medicine forced down t

Speaking as Pastor Scott Markle, the opponent of Calvinism, Brother "Weary Warrior," I wholeheartedly acknowledge the need for balance.  In fact, that was also the underlying thrust of my ab

Speaking as Pastor Scott Markle, the opponent of Calvinism, In the last fifteen years, I myself have observed Calvinistic doctrine "take over" a number of good Independent Baptist churches in our

Hmmm...let's see who's being deceitful....   It would appear that no one is being deceitful, yet your answer gave a certain impression. You never said whether you were saved in a church

I agree with you 100% Weary!  But the fact remains that the influx of Calvinism into SBC churches and now IB churches is because those who are on the pastoral selection boards have no idea what q

To all, Acting the part of the "Calvinism advocate" is NOT as easy as it may sound.  While presenting the Calvinist's side, I already know my non-Calvinist arguments against each point that I pre

This is Pastor Scott Markle, the opponent of Calvinism, speaking (because of the manner in which I have lately been engaging in this thread, it has become necessary for me to specify who I am represen

Talk anout your strawmen! No one mentioned universalism except you. I suspect your universalism and my universalism are a bit different. Universalism is the heretical idea that all men will event

That much I do see, understand and support. Iron sharpening iron among ourselves is of utmost importance. And the continued study between Bro Orval and yourself I completely support, and will read and

What a fascinating thread I should have read it earlier.  One of the things I have struggled with and spoke with my pastor about has been revealed by many in this thread. My question in general is thi

Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board. Fortunately folks like this

I believe it comes down to whether a person has been genuinely convicted of their sinful state and need of salvation...and whether they are willing to accept their need of salvation in regard to their

I didn't wait. The guy is banned. 

I have been served a Complement Sandwich a few times by mid-level managers. Worst technique ever! For my educated Calvinist friends who use this approach, It just so happens I read this article in the

Hey bro, I believe it's pretty much like Brother Dave said. In Calvinist belief, God "enables" a sinner who is totally Unable (The "T") who has NO RESISTANCE to the "Irresistable grace". That is

I wish to express my agreement with Brother "Wretched" on this point.  

Honesty though NN, I am guessing you don't feel Christ-like on this forum sometimes when having to re-explain things to Calvinists, etc.. but you come across as patient and kind and that is what count

Understood brother and your Christlike attitude is always a blessing!

wretched, This is something that I still struggle with. I know that you and I have had our differences in the past, but believe it or not, I have the utmost respect for you. I find your down-to-e

Well, if I were really going to delve further into this (of which I don't have time right now), these are the steps that I probably would take... I would try to find out what the English word "

Calvinism IS NOT A SECONDARY ISSUE.  I prefer to align with the Bible than what you say about various people.    

This is another way to put it. Mat 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Well, personally Jim I would only take MacArthur to the Rubbish bin, but some here appear determined to defend him and accept him, and hence my warning to be careful IF THEY ARE SO DETERMINED.  R

Hello to all, I have had ample time to think and pray while enjoying vacation and during this time I have realized that I have too many irons in the fire.  I do want to pursue Brother Scott and I

Would seem so considering the verse you quoted.  But witness is to see or experience something and to testifie is to bear witness, I believe.

This is Pastor Scott Markle, an opponent of Calvinism, speaking as a "Calvinism advocate," (All who read, please remember that I myself oppose the Calvinistic system; therefore, in my own position of

1 John 4 4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every

My "Like" above is for Bro. Wayne's comments, not for the video.  

By staying away from the Greek which is used many times as a backdoor attempt to correct or change what the KJV says. "Foreknow" and "Foreordained" are not the same words in the English language. Not

My personal take on it is that "witness" applies to both seeing/experiencing something...and...to testify about something. For example... To testify... Acts 4:33 And with great power gave

Certainly I would agree that the two English words "foreordained" and "foreknown" are two completely different words with two completely different root meanings in the English.  However, my question s

Brother Scott, You have anticipated my next approach in our discussion as I shall indeed go to 1 Peter 1 but before hand I will also introduce a couple of your apologists and their claims concern

Yeah, about 15 minutes ago my wife made a questioning comment about Online Baptist as well.

Verse 20 says "who" 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,  That means "the Word", the Wonderful Counselor, the Migh

I will be gone for several days and will pick up discussion when I return. vacation beckons!!  

If by foreknowledge you mean that God had foreknowledge of what we would decide, so predestined us, as one US pastor 's wife said to me.  Firstly that in no way is predestination, and secondly it mean

.....how loving and patient He MUST be.......... :)

As for myself, seeking to remain as close to the grammatical wording of the passage itself, I would say that it refers unto our Lord Jesus Christ as - The Christ (the Messiah), the Lamb of God (as per

I'd stinkin' hug you if I could! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Lord also healed many who were brought to him...they came to him...he didn't go to them. Mark 1:29-34 and Mark 3:7-12 The woman who had an issue of blood (for 12 years) was healed...by her ow

What if it simply means, Ones he has "known" "before"......... Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son

You have said this before, but some of the things you have said over the years sure sounds like it. You certainly wouldn't be the first Calvinist who refuses to accept the name, but that doesn't

I can't help it, I have to revisit this......   How absolutely disgraceful to compare the pre-salvation sins of Paul with the active leadership activities of Calvin. Yes, Paul was respo

Yes, but not for personal salvation, but unto national honor and a special place in God's program of revealing the scriptures and bringing the Messiah into the world. the argument in Romans 9 wou

I have often wondered and mused about this idea of the “foreknowledge” of God. Rom 8:(29)  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he migh

Yeah, I wasn't entirely happy with my wording, but it is referring to Him being the Christ and all that entails.     

I personally appreciate all the comments and observations of the posters on this thread. Pastor Scott is very knowledgeable and willing to play the devils advocate so to speak and I am thankful for th

Who? Me? LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As the song goes..."He's still working on me..."

New words is fun :) maybe I shall reform myself.....NOT It wouldn't surprise me a bit if your creatively invented words in this thread show up in the next reformed merchandise someone writes as n

The false error of Calvinism must be stopped (either by an intellectual exercise as Pastor Markle points out, or by simple illustration as Weary Warrior points out). The false errors of Calvinism

To be honest, I guess I'm not enough of a guitar guru to know whether a guitar is too light or not. LOL! I used to just appreciate the sound and whether the strings were easily pressed against the fre

Think you've got me confused with D-28, Orval. At any rate, you haven't asked me any questions and I'm not a Calvinist.

Hello my friend, First of all, I did not say the Calvinist believes this I said the Calvinist is placing his faith in a system.  Your words “you have been misled” is typical of a Calvinist respon

Haha! I wish it were that!  I'll be completely honest...my guitar playing was a source of pride in my life. Even when I played at church, I wanted to hear how "good" I was. I gave it up. It might

Did ya break/lose yer fingers?

Yet those "truths" from the Calvinist, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrines of Grace, etc. are based on the system of Calvinism, Reformed Doctrine, Doctrine of Grace, etc. I was a finger player (when I p

So then, Brother "D-28 Player," While you could technically contend that within the Calvinistic system of belief justification and salvation are indeed THROUGH faith, would you acknowledge that i

I hear ya! 

That smallprint was just a joke about another thread, NN. :)

And if you continue as you have I will expect you to be unnecessarily aggressive and rude. Just as a physically dead man cannot dial 911 to call for help, so a spiritually dead man cannot call on

Total lack of respect for the moderators......... How about an apology to the moderators. Salyan, OFP, and Jim are moderators, and the way you have spoken to each of them is disrespectful.

Men or Christ is always the real issue in these debates. Remember the words God gave us through Paul: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas

No, actually, it's not (ridiculous, that is). Calvinism is a damnable heresy, and as such, it is a poison. I'm going to ask that you move on from this point.

No need to be like that..... I stand by what I wrote, and I disagree with your explanation of what I wrote. I doubt Bob will understand it, but I am sure he will attack it and smile while he

I thank you for the attempt, but your representation of my position is in error.

Rat poison is an apt illustration in this instance. I have used this illustration in teaching about avoiding false teaching.  Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey t

Trouble reading Bob? Or are you only interested bagging me? How much false teaching warrants a warning in your eyes? Hey, enjoy yourself, just chew carefully. I gave my warning,

I don't agree with Dr Macarthur on everything but to liken his ministry to "rat poison" is not only extreme but also failing to evince a Christlike spirit.  If you wish to disagree with this dear brot

I understand that decision completely. Although I don't play that great, I realized something one day: God made my fingers and the neurons in my brain and all the physical processes that make music po

From what I've seen in your writings I don't believe there is harmony between our understanding of "word of truth" or who "the lost" are. If you're truly a Calvinist then we cannot walk together -- in

Hey Orval, another story to add to your collection: Not long after I took over as Pastor at a small church  (my first - of two) I was asked if I would have a young man for a fixed time as assista

Ah...perhaps I sense a bit of supramisleadingism here... I well remember your ORIGINAL response to DaveW's question; in which, you later edited out all of your non-civil rhetoric. 

To D-28, I have waited all day for you to respond to my presupposition that Reformed place their faith in their election.  You have called me a liar on two occasions and yet you have not refuted

This was our first discourse of this thread. You resurrected a thread that had been dead for over a month for the express purpose of accusing me of bearing false witness. That is the way that you

If D-28 is a product and example of the Calvinist system of religion...I don't know who would want it. The sarcasm he seethes is exactly what the world has to offer. "He is proud, knowing nothing

Actually, I believe that the Calvinistic system would emphatically declare (according to its monergistic viewpoint) that GOD HIMSELF is the ONE WHO saves, but that He saves through "repentance and fai

Grateful for this, Orval. I responded to your post because I was interested in a particular argument that it seemed to me you were making about why a hypothetical Calvinist who professes faith in Jesu

Good grief man...you know not of what you speak. Shame on you.

No argument, but they way it is presented by MacArthur is unbiblical.

No worries - it left its original purpose a long time ago. I originally posted in response to a direct question to me in another thread, and I didn't want to pollute that thread.   

It is only slander if it is intentionally false. Since it is not false, it isn't slander. Besides, he said "Calvinism" not "Calvinists". Calvinism clearly does not believe in 'whosoever will', bu

Nice...your true colors are really revealing themselves today.  However, you still admitted that whosever has a caveat in a previous post.

They do thrive on their made-up words and definitions don't they..hilarious. I am always curious to the answer because I have never heard of a reformer/calvinist who got saved in a reformed churc

This is precisely why I asked him to define "whosoever" to make sure we are talking about the same thing - but he gave a dictionary definition rather than explaining what he means by it.   M

I also would like to point out that D-28 Player did not respond or aknowledge Pastor Markle's post where he laid out and defined Calvinism. Why do we even allow these type of people on this board

They also tend to accuse others of being rude and slandering them, even whilst they make all sorts of unfounded accusations against even the more considered among us (not me). For proof, I would

Such vitriol, such sarcasm, from such a fine and well spoken patriarch of the Calvinist system.  It appears everyone in this thread qualifies for your "correct" or I could say correction. It appear

I spoke of the system you promote. Did you come to argue and attempt self-gratification? If you came to attempt to shake foundations, you can't shake mine, my foundation is the creator of heaven and e

I actually find it funny that there has been very little discussion about any other aspect of Macarthur's false doctrines, but it certainly has attracted the Calvinists from their hidey holes. Th

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be ac

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
19 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

However, if it IS about logic, even then, Calvinism fails, because logically, there is no point to the Bible, no point for the morality lessons contained therein, for any law to be given, for any preaching of the gospel to occur, because those destined to damnation with no hope to ever change because God hath declared it to be so, can never learn from the errors and sins of those in scripture, and those destined to salvation don't need it.

Amen, I thought about saying similar yesterday but, thought I would listen longer. Also, there would be no point to use the serpent in the wilderness and tie it to Christ. John 3:14-16. This just reinforces the fact we have been given a choice to receive or reject the free gift given through Jesus Christ.

D-28 sometimes a man can be so determined to win an argument that he can lose what eternal is and why we preach the word in truth.

Edited by 1Timothy115
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Just now, D-28 Player said:

I agree 

We preach the Word in truth that the lost might be saved

From what I've seen in your writings I don't believe there is harmony between our understanding of "word of truth" or who "the lost" are. If you're truly a Calvinist then we cannot walk together -- in the agreed sense. "Whosoever will" is what I believe and Calvinism does not agree. To borrow from Hamlet, I must admit that you "...doth protest too much, methinks".

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28 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

It's unfortunate that you feel you have to slander Calvinists in order to defend your beliefs but that's up to you I guess 

 

 

It is only slander if it is intentionally false. Since it is not false, it isn't slander.

Besides, he said "Calvinism" not "Calvinists". Calvinism clearly does not believe in 'whosoever will', but 'whosoever God allows to will, by His will, and no will of their own."

 

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21 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

true justice and mercy are to be found in scripture: that a child was not to be judged for the sin of the parent, and vice-versa, tells me that God judges righteously-he gives His law and those who choose to follow it, (be it the law of Moses or the law of Christ), find mercy and salvation, and those who do not are judged sinners and lawbreakers and punished accordingly. But they have the ability to choose to keep or break those laws, and even the worst have found repentance in them. So we must assume that God gave the law based upon His method of judging, which is, we have a choice to follow and be blessed, or reject and disobey and be judged guilty.  But a God who says "Repent!" but has already removed any ability to repent, is a god unjust.  Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Does he command, but not allow? I think not

Amen!!

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1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

It is only slander if it is intentionally false. Since it is not false, it isn't slander.

Besides, he said "Calvinism" not "Calvinists". Calvinism clearly does not believe in 'whosoever will', but 'whosoever God allows to will, by His will, and no will of their own."

 

Calvinists believe and Calvinism teaches that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. If you want to pretend they don't that's your problem. 

"Whosoever". Period.

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6 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

Calvinists believe and Calvinism teaches that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. If you want to pretend they don't that's your problem. 

"Whosoever". Period.

Yet the Calvinistic system also teaches that the "whosoever" can only be the "whosoever" if the Lord our God FIRST grants them both the ability and the desire to believe through His irresistibly gracious work of regeneration.

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6 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Yet the Calvinistic system also teaches that the "whosoever" can only be the "whosoever" if the Lord our God FIRST grants them both the ability and the desire to believe through His irresistibly gracious work of regeneration.

Still "whosoever"

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1 hour ago, D-28 Player said:

Still "whosoever"

Indeed.  Yet while the Calvinistic system teaches that "whosoever SHALL CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," the Calvinistic system also teaches that NOT all human individuals shall have the ABILITY to be a part of that "whosoever."  This is not simply a contradiction of "universalism," such that NOT all human individuals WILL call upon the name of the Lord and thus receive salvation.  Rather, this is a contradiction of ABILITY, such that NOT all human individuals are even granted God's grace to be ABLE to call upon the name of the Lord and thus receive salvation.  Thus the Calvinistic system teaches -- "whosoever SHALL call;" but it does NOT teach -- "whosoever CAN call."

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On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 5:59 PM, D-28 Player said:

I really hope you're not implying that Calvinists don't believe salvation is by grace through faith in Christ because, if you are, that would be bearing false witness. 

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 0:38 PM, D-28 Player said:

If you really believe this is what Calvinists believe, then somebody has mislead you. 

No Calvinist would tell you to place your faith in some "system", but to repent and place your faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross.

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 2:20 PM, D-28 Player said:

Well that's a very creative interpretation of Reformed theology

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 2:30 PM, D-28 Player said:

The fact remains that if you walked into a room full of Calvinists and claimed that Calvinists believe these things you would be laughed out of the room 

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 2:40 PM, D-28 Player said:

I'm open to answering questions but I don't believe it's reasonable or honest to expect me to defend beliefs you ascribe to Calvinists as opposed to beliefs Calvinists actually hold and which Calvinism actually teaches,  

If you want to talk about what Calvinism actually teaches fine. But if you're just going to throw out a bunch of straw men and talking points then I'm just going to ignore that. 

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 5:42 PM, D-28 Player said:

Another straw man. Calvinists do not believe that God "programs" men or that men are "robots".  

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:29 PM, D-28 Player said:

Well that's a very creative description of Calvinism you have there. 

3 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

It's unfortunate that you feel you have to slander Calvinists in order to defend your beliefs but that's up to you I guess 

Brother "D-28 Player,"

Throughout this thread discussion, you have indicated numerous times that some individual does not in some manner correctly understand the Calvinistic system of belief.

Now, in an earlier posting I presented the following seven points concerning the Calvinistic system of belief:

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 7:02 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed, the Calvinistic system presents the matter as follows:

1.  A lost sinner is spiritually dead, such that he or she has no ability or desire whatsoever to come unto Christ in faith apart from some work of God's grace upon that sinner.

2.  The work of God's grace whereby a sinner is made able to come unto Christ in faith is the divine work of regeneration.  (By the way, this certainly means that within the Calvinistic system the divine work of regeneration is NOT AT ALL through faith, but is rather UNTO faith.)

3.  When God determines to engage His work of regeneration upon a lost sinner, He does so through an irresistible grace, such that the lost sinner CANNOT PREVENT his own regeneration (even if he did not want to be regenerated).

4.  Once God has engaged His work of regeneration upon a lost sinner, that lost sinner is now ABLE to come unto Christ in faith.

5.  Furthermore, once God has engaged His work of regeneration upon a lost sinner, that lost sinner most certainly WILL come unto Christ in faith, specifically because God's work of regeneration changed that sinner's will (desire) so that he or she now CERTAINLY WILLS (desires) to come unto Christ in faith.

6.  As such, EVERY sinner upon whom God engages His work of regeneration WILL CERTAINLY come unto Christ in faith.

7.  Then by God's grace through that sinner's faith, that sinner will be forgiven, justified, saved, reconciled, sealed, sanctified, and glorified.

Would you please reveal (according to your viewpoint) if in any of these seven points I have presented a misunderstanding of the Calvinistic system of belief?

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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9 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Would you please reveal (according to your viewpoint) if in any of these seven points, I have presented a misunderstanding of the Calvinistic system of belief?

Nothing I would argue with (except the "according to your understanding" dig)

Why does it matter to you if you've presented a misunderstanding? 

 

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6 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

Nothing I would argue with (except the "according to your understanding" dig)

Why does it matter to you if you've presented a misunderstanding? 

Brother "D-28 Player,"

The "according to your viewpoint" parenthetical was not intended at all as a "dig."  Rather, it was intended as a recognition that different proponents of Calvinism may have slightly different viewpoints on the details of the Calvinistic system, and thus also a recognition that I was asking specifically in relation to your own viewpoint as the representative Calvinist in this thread discussion.

As to why it matters -- It appears (at least from my viewpoint) that one of your primary responses throughout this thread discussion has been the claim that various individuals did not correctly understand the Calvinistic system.  Yet you had not responded unto my presentation above at all.  Therefore, I was seeking for a confirmation of your recognition that I DO actually understand the Calvinistic system.  As such, we now have a foundation upon which to discuss the precise details of disagreement without the "you do not really understand" rhetoric.

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On Wed Feb 22 2017 at 6:51 AM, DaveW said:

Because it was asked, and it is not appropriate to further pollute that thread.

 

MacArthur promotes:

  • multiple bible (per)versions.
  • Calvinism (and I don't care what name you put on it).
  • Progressive worship.
  • "Elder rule".
  • Universal church.

Although I wouldn't recommend going to his site, if you do, all these things are cleatly evident.

He does get some things right, but 90% of rat poison is good food - it is the 10% that is dangerous.

 

I actually find it funny that there has been very little discussion about any other aspect of Macarthur's false doctrines, but it certainly has attracted the Calvinists from their hidey holes.

This reinforces my observations that Calvinist will throw out many solid doctrines in pursuit of their Calvinism.

A question by a non-calvinist about elder rule, I think someone questioned universal church, which was also answered.

Not one person has queried the multiple versions or the progressive worship, and as fat as I can tell none of these who are calvinists care about any of his other false teaching.

They appear to be happy with his universal church, his polity, his Bible versions, and his worldly "worship" just so long as he is a calvinist.

 

After all, this thread was originally about Macarthur, not calvinism specifically......

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4 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

It's unfortunate that you feel you have to slander Calvinists in order to defend your beliefs but that's up to you I guess 

 

 

I spoke of the system you promote. Did you come to argue and attempt self-gratification? If you came to attempt to shake foundations, you can't shake mine, my foundation is the creator of heaven and earth. I would prefer you came to know the salvation gift of Jesus Christ my Lord. Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." It does not say just unto those who qualify under the system of Calvinism.

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2 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I spoke of the system you promote. Did you come to argue and attempt self-gratification? If you came to attempt to shake foundations, you can't shake mine, my foundation is the creator of heaven and earth. I would prefer you came to know the salvation gift of Jesus Christ my Lord. Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." It does not say just unto those who qualify under the system of Calvinism.

First of all, I'm not "promoting a system". I just commented to correct a terrible misunderstanding of the beliefs of my brothers and sisters in Christ. It all went downhill from there after all of the anti-Calvinist venom came out. 

Second, no, I came to answer a question about the Civil War and how it is perceived in the South. 

Third, thank you for implying that I am not saved but I can assure you that Christ was and is faithful to keep His promises with or without your approval.

 Fourth, nobody has said anything about "qualifying under a system of Calvinism". For you to imply that I or anyone else here has is just dishonest. 

Fifth, I'm sorry that you're so insecure in your faith that you believe that anybody who doesn't hate Calvinists must be out to "shake your faith", but that's your probIem, not mine.  I couldn't care less whether or not you agree with Calvinism or what you may believe. My intent is only to correct a misunderstanding, not to persuade anybody to believe or not believe anything. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, DaveW said:

as fat as I can tell none of these who are calvinists care about any of his other false teaching.

Or maybe they just don't consider those things "false teaching", preferring instead to save such a serious charge for violations of essential doctrines, and not merely whining because somebody does something they don't like.

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8 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

First of all, I'm not "promoting a system". I just commented to correct a terrible misunderstanding of the beliefs of my brothers and sisters in Christ. It all went downhill from there after all of the anti-Calvinist venom came out. 

Second, no, I came to answer a question about the Civil War and how it is perceived in the South. 

Third, thank you for implying that I am not saved but I can assure you that Christ was and is faithful to keep His promises with or without your approval.

 Fourth, nobody has said anything about "qualifying under a system of Calvinism". For you to imply that I or anyone else here has is just dishonest. 

Fifth, I'm sorry that you're so insecure in your faith that you believe that anybody who doesn't hate Calvinists must be out to "shake your faith", but that's your probIem, not mine.  I couldn't care less whether or not you agree with Calvinism or what you may believe. My intent is only to correct a misunderstanding, not to persuade anybody to believe or not believe anything. 

 

 

Or maybe they just don't consider those things "false teaching", preferring instead to save such a serious charge for violations of essential doctrines, and not merely whining because somebody does something they don't like.

Which proves the point - thanks.

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2 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

First of all, I'm not "promoting a system". I just commented to correct a terrible misunderstanding of the beliefs of my brothers and sisters in Christ. It all went downhill from there after all of the anti-Calvinist venom came out. 

Second, no, I came to answer a question about the Civil War and how it is perceived in the South. 

Third, thank you for implying that I am not saved but I can assure you that Christ was and is faithful to keep His promises with or without your approval.

 Fourth, nobody has said anything about "qualifying under a system of Calvinism". For you to imply that I or anyone else here has is just dishonest. 

Fifth, I'm sorry that you're so insecure in your faith that you believe that anybody who doesn't hate Calvinists must be out to "shake your faith", but that's your probIem, not mine.  I couldn't care less whether or not you agree with Calvinism or what you may believe. My intent is only to correct a misunderstanding, not to persuade anybody to believe or not believe anything. 

Such vitriol, such sarcasm, from such a fine and well spoken patriarch of the Calvinist system. 

It appears everyone in this thread qualifies for your "correct" or I could say correction. It appears you feel the need to show how 'right' Calvinism is and how wrong those outside Calvinism are.

Sincere questions.
Have you influenced any here to forgo their faith in Christ's "free gift" "to all" men  and come over to the uncertainty of the Calvinist system?

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22 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

It appears you feel the need to show how 'right' Calvinism is and how wrong those outside Calvinism are.

Sincere questions.
Have you influenced any here to forgo their faith in Christ's "free gift" "to all" men  and come over to the uncertainty of the Calvinist system?

I'm sorry you feel the need to slander me and to misrepresent both my beliefs and those of Calvinists and Calvinism. 

 

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Just now, Jordan Kurecki said:

Calvinists will typically always accuse Non-Calvinists of misunderstanding or misrepresenting Calvinism.

They also tend to accuse others of being rude and slandering them, even whilst they make all sorts of unfounded accusations against even the more considered among us (not me).

For proof, I would point anyone to the remarks of Pastor Markle, who rarely if ever loses patience in these discussions, but has had such accusations made against him.

And they claim "Straw man" whilst making straw man arguments.

And they normally come to the point of making an "ad hominem" accusation at some stage - then the rest of us have to look up what "ad hominem" actually means before we can respond to their personal attacks........

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4 minutes ago, DaveW said:

They also tend to accuse others of being rude and slandering them, even whilst they make all sorts of unfounded accusations against even the more considered among us (not me).

For proof, I would point anyone to the remarks of Pastor Markle, who rarely if ever loses patience in these discussions, but has had such accusations made against him.

And they claim "Straw man" whilst making straw man arguments.

And they normally come to the point of making an "ad hominem" accusation at some stage - then the rest of us have to look up what "ad hominem" actually means before we can respond to their personal attacks........

I also would like to point out that D-28 Player did not respond or aknowledge Pastor Markle's post where he laid out and defined Calvinism.

Why do we even allow these type of people on this board? all it does is serve to distract us from having profitable and fruitful discussions, I do not like the spirit that I see manifested here thus far. probably the reason why I don't go on message boards as much as I use to.

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5 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

Calvinists believe and Calvinism teaches that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. If you want to pretend they don't that's your problem. 

"Whosoever". Period.

Would you care to define who makes up the "whosoever" precisely?

Rather than leaving it up to us to try figure out what you mean by "whosoever".

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