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         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Beliefs


DougA
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OK so here's the problem,  I have an issue talking to people in my church about my believes because of persecution. I was born and raised Southern Baptist and that is what I am today but for 10 years in between now and then I was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. I did several studies throughout my time there and before a joined on verses in the Bible that link to their beliefs. Everyone that I know in the Baptist Church has said that Jesus was pre-ordained to save us from our sins but no one wants to take knowledge that He was there before the world was formed. Also the fact that Genesis states there was more than one dirty speaking in the garden to Adam and Eve. It states Man has now become like us. We shall make man in our image. Who is God talking to if Jesus wasn't born yet? The Bible if you look up the names of Jesus in Hebrew states that Jesus was the one who Moses spoke to on mount  sinai.  And if God is the same yesterday today and forever and he spoke to several prophets of the Old Testament when they were children why would he not speak to a seven-year-old boy in this day and age who asked for guidance? There are several other key references in the book of Mormon that can be traced back to the Bible. How can an uneducated boy write a powerful 500 page book that moved enough hearts to make people leave their homes around the world and move to Utah by foot at the risk of death and starvation? Jesus even said in the New Testament when the disciples didn't know what to name the primitive church He told them to name it after Him because if it's named after a man then it's a mans church. If it's named after Jesus the son of God it's His church and His doctrine which all Christian's should follow. How exactly is it wrong. Please can someone who is a minister and actually educated in the true ways of the LDS church and not just listened to a few sermons telling how it's wrong but actually went to the horses mouth and prayed tell me what I should do. 

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8 hours ago, DougA said:

Everyone that I know in the Baptist Church has said that Jesus was pre-ordained to save us from our sins but no one wants to take knowledge that He was there before the world was formed. Also the fact that Genesis states there was more than one dirty speaking in the garden to Adam and Eve. It states Man has now become like us. We shall make man in our image. Who is God talking to if Jesus wasn't born yet?

Genesis 1:26 refers to the Trinity.  John 1:1-4 teaches us that Jesus was there in the beginning of creation and nothing was made without him.

Welcome to the forum by the way, have you formally introduced yourself and shared your testimony?  Forgive me if I have missed it.

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This is just an observation, it does not speak to the subject at hand. many times we confuse issues and others when we say things like, "Jesus was there in the beginning". I am not picking on you Swath, just trying to correct a common misconception.

There was no Jesus until he was born in Bethlehem. Before his incarnation he was The Word. "In the beginning was The Word".

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2 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

??? I'm not familiar with such a reference in the New Testament.

It is probably from the book of Mormon rather than the bible.

I looked on mormon.org and couldn't find any mention of Joseph Smith, however I did find the following:

"In the latter days, prophets continue to caution and advise all people. Recent counsel addresses social issues such as marriage and family relationships, practical matters such as education and financial prudence, and spiritual subjects that help us overcome personal trials and find greater confidence in our faith."

This actually contradicts the bible because we read:

1 ¶  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Hebrews 1:1-2.

In the past God spoke in many ways by prophets, but in these last days He has spoken by His Son, The Lord Jesus.  All we need to know of what His son has spoken, we find in the scriptures, therefore there is no need of prophets in these last days, or latter days.


 

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tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith

It seems that Smith as about  15 or 18 when he said he had his vision.  Even if he was seven, there are other accounts in history of children that age or younger who were considered prophets.  In the heyday of Irvinism in Enland and Scotland in the early 1830s, there was a case in theh Irvingite church in Oxford of a boy and girl, twins, aged 6 to 7, who became prophets and ruled the household declaring many of the items in the house, "Babylonish" including their father's valuable library which was destroyed.  Eventually these chidren declared that marriage was sinful.  This was so obviously the work of a false spirit that the childre were called and told that the scripture test to try the spirits woluld be given.  The children screamed "Ye may try the spirits in adults, but not in children".  This was mentioned by sveral writers about that time and some years later Caroline Fox mentioned them in her journal. It seems no one thought to try the spirits in Joseph Smith.  

In the late 1600s in the South of France there were people known as Camisards.  They were known over here as the French Prophets. Amongst them were a number of children of all ages including a child of  14 months who had never spoken a word, nor could go it alone "spoke distinctly in French with a voice like a small child , but loud enough to be well heard all over the room; it exhorted  like others in that condition, to works of repentence,"  Testimony of Mathew Boisier of Dauphiny, pp 9,10, A Cry from the Dessert  by  Maximillian Misson.  1707, published in French and also in English.

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Depending on whether it's true or not, and If memory serves me correctly, Smith didn't actually do the translating. He (with the use of some very questionable practices) verbally dictated it to his wife, and she's the one who wrote it down.

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21 hours ago, DougA said:

OK so here's the problem,  I have an issue talking to people in my church about my believes because of persecution. I was born and raised Southern Baptist and that is what I am today but for 10 years in between now and then I was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. I did several studies throughout my time there and before a joined on verses in the Bible that link to their beliefs. Everyone that I know in the Baptist Church has said that Jesus was pre-ordained to save us from our sins but no one wants to take knowledge that He was there before the world was formed. Also the fact that Genesis states there was more than one dirty speaking in the garden to Adam and Eve. It states Man has now become like us. We shall make man in our image. Who is God talking to if Jesus wasn't born yet? The Bible if you look up the names of Jesus in Hebrew states that Jesus was the one who Moses spoke to on mount  sinai.  And if God is the same yesterday today and forever and he spoke to several prophets of the Old Testament when they were children why would he not speak to a seven-year-old boy in this day and age who asked for guidance? There are several other key references in the book of Mormon that can be traced back to the Bible. How can an uneducated boy write a powerful 500 page book that moved enough hearts to make people leave their homes around the world and move to Utah by foot at the risk of death and starvation? Jesus even said in the New Testament when the disciples didn't know what to name the primitive church He told them to name it after Him because if it's named after a man then it's a mans church. If it's named after Jesus the son of God it's His church and His doctrine which all Christian's should follow. How exactly is it wrong. Please can someone who is a minister and actually educated in the true ways of the LDS church and not just listened to a few sermons telling how it's wrong but actually went to the horses mouth and prayed tell me what I should do. 

You seem to be a little all over the place. Maybe if you can list your questions or beliefs point by point it would be easier to follow.

I too was once a Mormon. Joseph Smith plagiarized much of what he wrote. This is one reason the LDS church uses the KJV (or NKJV) because of the similarity with the Book of Mormon. 

Also, God was speaking to the pre-incarnate Son of God  in Genesis but Jesus was not born physically until the virgin Mary.

24 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Depending on whether it's true or not, and If memory serves me correctly, Smith didn't actually do the translating. He (with the use of some very questionable practices) verbally dictated it to his wife, and she's the one who wrote it down.

He sat behind a curtain and dictated it allegedly from some golden plates given to him by the Angel Moroni. He was to reveal the plates afterward but then claim they were taken back by Moroni.

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5 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

 

I'm not sure I'm following what's being asked and/or stated. Also DougA, please realize that I'm not attacking you if something I point out seems that way. I'm just confused. Am I wrong in thinking that you are looking to justify the teachings of the Mormon church?

 

I'm not asking you to actually answer this here on the forum, but I have to wonder why you went from Baptist to Mormon. You also state that you are Southern Baptist today, but it seems as though you are wanting justification for Mormon teachings.

No one in the Baptist churches that you're familiar with believes that the Lord Jesus was there before the world was formed? Is that what you mean, or are you referring to no one in the Mormon church believes that?

Colossians 1:13-16
13   Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator; indeed he was there before the world was formed. He wasn't named "Jesus" until his physical birth; however, he has always been, always is, and always will be God.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If you're saying that about the Baptists that you know; that's alarming to me...but not surprising to me these days. If you're saying that about the Mormons, that's because it doesn't fit with their theology. Also, they believe the "Book of Mormon" supersedes the Bible; therefore, they believe that anything in the Bible that contradicts their theology isn't true.

Is that a typing error; did you mean "more than one deity"? God was speaking to the pre-incarnate Christ, or he was speaking to the Holy Spirit, or he was speaking to both the pre-incarnate Christ and the Holy Spirit. I personally believe that he was speaking to both of them.

Just for clarity, while God is the same and never changes, the verse that you referred to is referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. The answer is simple (and I don't mean that in a mocking way)...the answer is very simple. The "Book of Mormon" is an addition to God's word. In fact, the Mormon church used to have television commercials many years ago that stated that. However, what does God say about that?

Proverbs 30:5-6
5   Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6   Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Smith directly went against God and added to God's words. He not only added to God's word, but much of his additions directly contradict God's word.

  1. There are failed prophecies in the Book of Mormon.
  2. There are failed historical references in the Book of Mormon.
  3. There are failed archaeological references in the Book of Mormon.

God's word is shown to be true in that biblical reference, and Joseph Smith was found to be a liar.

That's because Smith used the King James Bible as his "reference"...so to speak. I find it curious that the "Book of Mormon" was written in a very similar style as the King James Bible, but people no longer spoke that way when the "Book of Mormon" was written.

The answer there is also simple. Who is that opposes of God according to God's word? It's Satan. Now, I know the Mormons believe that Satan and Christ are brothers; however, that again is not biblical...

How could he write it?

  1. He used the King James Bible as his "reference".
  2. As the opposer of God, Satan or his devils (demons in today's language) inspired him to write it and start a religion that was in complete opposition to the truths of God's word and his method for salvation...or...
  3. Smith's own sinful fallen state prompted him to write it.

That's also why so many people would follow him. They didn't know the true God, nor did they know true salvation. I realize that may sound harsh, and I don't mean to sound harsh...but there is no other explanation. God doesn't change (which you, yourself acknowledged); therefore, Smith acted in direct opposition to God by adding to his words.

??? I'm not familiar with such a reference in the New Testament.

 

The LDS has multiple authorities they follow like most cults or false religions.

1) The Bible

2) The Book of Mormon

3) The Pearl of Great Price

4) Book of Doctrines and Covenants

5) The visions of the Twelve Apostles out in Salt Lake City. These guys pretty much are PR control and come up with new "revelations" to make sure the rest of the Books stay hip with the times.

6) There's also the General Authority of the Seventies, Bishops and other "presidents" that run the church out in Utah. Mostly making sure the tithe money is invested into the right corporations and other financial, political and PR dealings.

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1 minute ago, fastjav390 said:

The LDS has multiple authorities they follow like most cults or false religions.

1) The Bible

2) The Book of Mormon

3) The Pearl of Great Price

4) Book of Doctrines and Covenants

5) The visions of the Twelve Apostles out in Salt Lake City. These guys pretty much are PR control and come up with new "revelations" to make sure the rest of the Books stay hip with the times.

6) There's also the General Authority of the Seventies, Bishops and other "presidents" that run the church out in Utah. Mostly making sure the tithe money is invested into the right corporations and other financial, political and PR dealings.

Didn't the "Pearl of Great Price" come from a golden salamander?

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16 minutes ago, fastjav390 said:

You are thinking about the "salamander letter" which is about how Joseph Smith received the gold plates. Some believe that letter was a fraud itself.

Okay...thanks. It's been some time since I studied all of this. Thank you for clarifying that.

If I may, and I don't mean to put any type of pressure on you, but would you mind sharing what showed you the error of the Mormons? I realize that's asking a lot, and it could possibly involve a lot of typing depending on the situation...so use your own discrepancy depending on your situation and whether you decide to answer or not.

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Quite a number of years ago, a local pastor told me that some students had been invited to a lecture at the university by the Mormons and had asked him to go with them.  At the end of tghe lecture the Mormon asked if there were any questions.  No one asked any, so he said I have one.  He said "You say that in the afterlife you will rule your own planet with all your family there?"   "Yes that's correct."  "But won't your sons all want to rule their own planet?"  The conversation got no further and he said he was escorted from the building with a burly Mormon on each side.

Edited by Invicta
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2 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Okay...thanks. It's been some time since I studied all of this. Thank you for clarifying that.

If I may, and I don't mean to put any type of pressure on you, but would you mind sharing what showed you the error of the Mormons? I realize that's asking a lot, and it could possibly involve a lot of typing depending on the situation...so use your own discrepancy depending on your situation and whether you decide to answer or not.

Nothing really, except maybe a tract I once read. It asked what you have to do to get to heaven and it had a list of things. There were some Mormon missionaries visiting my parents (both Mormon) and I read it to them. They said "Keep the 10 Commandments" and something else, I don't remember. Then I opened the tract and read it and it said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved...". I remember them looking at each other in stunned silence. I had no idea what the tract was going to say myself. I can't even remember where I got it. But I think that's when the light went on for me.

Fortunately, though I was baptized a Mormon at nine years old I never really got deep into the cult myself. I think because I split time between my dad and stepmom and my mother and when I was with my mother we would occasionally attend a Presbyterian church. It was my mother who first explained to me what sin was when I was around 12. Also, even though my father is a Mormon I really think he's an atheist. I think he just went along with my stepmother to get along. Neither of them really know what Mormons really believe.

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1 hour ago, fastjav390 said:

Nothing really, except maybe a tract I once read. It asked what you have to do to get to heaven and it had a list of things. There were some Mormon missionaries visiting my parents (both Mormon) and I read it to them. They said "Keep the 10 Commandments" and something else, I don't remember. Then I opened the tract and read it and it said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved...". I remember them looking at each other in stunned silence. I had no idea what the tract was going to say myself. I can't even remember where I got it. But I think that's when the light went on for me.

Fortunately, though I was baptized a Mormon at nine years old I never really got deep into the cult myself. I think because I split time between my dad and stepmom and my mother and when I was with my mother we would occasionally attend a Presbyterian church. It was my mother who first explained to me what sin was when I was around 12. Also, even though my father is a Mormon I really think he's an atheist. I think he just went along with my stepmother to get along. Neither of them really know what Mormons really believe.

Thank you. I most certainly appreciate you taking the time to respond, and the testimonial was a blessing.

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On 2/2/2017 at 11:17 AM, Invicta said:

I looked on mormon.org and couldn't find any mention of Joseph Smith, however I did find the following:

I went to mormon.org, typed "Joseph Smith" in the search bar and it provided pages and pages of results.  Not being about to find mentions of Joseph Smith on the main Mormon site is like not being able to find mention of the virgin Mary on the Vatican's site.

 

On 2/2/2017 at 2:52 PM, fastjav390 said:

You are thinking about the "salamander letter" which is about how Joseph Smith received the gold plates. Some believe that letter was a fraud itself.

LOL!.......  LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Edited by Brother Stafford
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33 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

I went to mormon.org, typed "Joseph Smith" in the search bar and it provided pages and pages of results.  Not being about to find mentions of Joseph Smith on the main Mormon site is like not being able to find mentions of the virgin Mary on the Vatican's site.

 

LOL!.......  LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Oh yes, I didn't notice the search.

I used to be on a site where there was a charismatic who said he took a group of young people to a meeting in Wales, and he said during the meeting they all got gold dust over them but it then disappeared.  I said "Like Joseph Smitth's gold tablets."  He didn't like me comparing him to Joseph Smith, to say the least.

Edited by Invicta
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2 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

 

 

LOL!.......  LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Let me clarify. The letter was allegedly written to discredit Joseph Smith but in their zeal to reveal him for the fraud he was the author(s) of the letter made up some fanciful tales themselves. At least this is now what is claimed. You see, the LDS scholars actually believed the letter to be authentic until people began to use the letter to show how loony of a man Joe Smith was. Then all of a sudden they claimed it to be a forgery. 

Edited by fastjav390
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2 hours ago, Invicta said:

Oh yes, I didn't notice the search.

I used to be on a site where there was a charismatic who said he took a group of young people to a meeting in Wales, and he said during the meeting they all got gold dust over them but it then disappeared.  I said "Like Joseph Smitth's gold tablets."  He didn't like me comparing him to Joseph Smith, to say the least.

A few years back a charismatic man claimed this same thing to me. All this gold dust began falling out of the air onto his pastor while he was preaching. This seemed to have been a fad back in the '90's for a time during the "Brownsville Revival" and "Toronto Blessing" rage that was happening. You see a lot of gullible Christians fall into similar fads like the lost do with things like "planking", "twerking" or even "flagpole sitting" of the 1920's.  But with Christians it has a biblical slant. Recent ones I can think of are the "Bible Codes", "Blood Moons" and "7th Shemitah". The thing is I know the man personally and he's a pretty honest man so that's makes me curious just how the pastor pulled the "magic trick" off. I'm more fascinated by that.

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