Following the Law

[Guest Roberto]

How far do IFB baptist go in following the Mosaic laws in Scripture? Do they/you follow any of the tenants of the OT law?

Are IFB antinomians?

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Many of these types of questions are unanswerable. Why? Because it is similar to asking if an individual in the Western Hemisphere can walk into the store with a small (15 inch) machete on his side. It depends on where he lives. Even if all the countries in the hemisphere made it illegal, a country can change its mind and make it legal without a central hemispheric power telling them it's prohibited.

By the same token, Independent Baptist churches are INDEPENDENT of any central governing body of the individual church. Their realm of governance begins and ends within the confines of the church body.

[Ukulelemike]

I will try as well.  Speaking for myself and other IFB's I know and am familiar with what they do, we don't generally follow the Mosaic laws, though we DO consider them as worthy of study, and some aspects are even still good for today. For example: it is still as wrong for a man to wear that which pertaineth to a woman, and vice-verse-why? Because a man is to be man and a woman, a woman. In the NT we see the issue dealt with in hair length-a man is to have short hair, a woman, long hair, each indicative clearly for their sex. At the beginning God made them Male and female, and so we should conduct ourselves always as such, in dress, hair and manners.

Example 2: homosexuality was forbidden in the OT, and repeated in the NT, for much the same reason as the last: created Male and female, the woman from the man, for each other. God's intent, our command.

The issues of clean/unclean: don't sow your fields with differing seed; don't make garments of differing materials; eat these animals, but not those animals: These were all commanded to teach the issue of separation from sin. God wanted His people to behave in a manner differing from the pagan nations, so He taught them to do so by commanding them to do some things different. Even in their clothing there was given a difference, a ribband of blue and a fringe on the borders of their garments, so when they looked upon it they were reminded of God and His laws. So today, though we don't have the same specific things forbidden, through them we learn that God still expects ecclesiastical and moral separation from the lost and their ways.

A for being an antinomian, I'm not sure, I've never nomian'd, so don't know if I'm anti or not. Lol. Seriously, we are to keep the law of Christ and the NT commandments, of which there are many, BUT we are not judged eternally for breaking them, as they were with the Mosaic laws, because today we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ: HE did the work start to finish, and no work we can do will make a difference in our salvation, for or against. However that doesn't mean we should just do as we please-the result of our salvation and our new nature should be to be in obedience to the things of God, and not think out liberty is licentiousness.

[Jordan Kurecki]

Depends on what you mean by the law...do we keep the sacrificial and ceremonial law? No. The NT tells us that Christ is the fulfillment of the law, Colosians tells us many things in the law were a shadow of things to come speaking of Christ.

however we are still to live by the moral law, in fact 9 of the 10 commandments are repeated as commands in the NT.

In regards to being antinomian...most IFB I know are not. We believe Romans 6:1, we should not sin just so grace may abound. But at the same time we realize we are not justified by keeping the Law. The book of Galatians and Romans 3-6 are great passages to study.

 

[wretched]

6 hours ago, Guest Roberto said:

antinomians?

I suspect Google has been "on fire" over this one! It was for me.

[No Nicolaitans]

I would say that we are free from any necessity to fulfill the Mosaic law as if we are bound to it or required to live by it for justification, yet he who indwells us gives us the power and desire to want to fulfill the law because of the love he's given us, the love we have for him, and the love we have for others. 

Romans 13:8-10
8   Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9   For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10   Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

At the same time, this freedom that we have (from the law) doesn't nullify the fact that we are still held accountable for our actions, words, and deeds. We will be judged according to our works...not to determine our salvation; rather, to determine our rewards (or lack thereof).

So...I would say that the IFBs with whom I'm familiar, are neither antinomians or hyper-grace followers.

[John Young]

The Christian no longer subject to the law as a dead sinner, condemned and bound to sin, but but as one alive in God's grace and liberty as a believer. The spirit within us teaches us the laws of God are good and we should obey and keep them, so that our mind and body can be renewed and sanctified. However, we keep it not to be justified, with the understanding that it is not for salvation and that we are free from the eternal damnation of the law (Romans explains this clearly), and that parts have been fulfilled and changed because Christ takes the place of the sacrifices, the Levitical, and the governmental roles (Hebrews explains this). Additionally we understand that its practical application is actually teaching spiritual principles that go beyond the basic application(ie. not to muzzle the ox was for us too, not just the Ox: 1 Corinthians 9:9-10) And finally we follow it in the understanding that its ultimate purpose is to bring us to faith and to teach us to Love as God Loves. If we try to keep the law without love or faith in God, then we have missed its purpose (Matthew 22:37-40).

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Salvation is not by the law but by faith in the works of Christ:
Romans 3:20-31 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only?is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Christ has become the Priesthood:

Hebrews 7:11-12 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
 

Christ became the sacrifice for sin and put away the carnal ordinances of the Law:

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary....6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 the Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that wereunder the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance....23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:14-17 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Colossians 2:13-17 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

We are not under the law but learn faith and how to love from the law:
Galatians 3:24-26 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

1 John 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians 5:13-26 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[Ronda]

On 7/25/2016 at 0:19 PM, Guest Roberto said:

How far do IFB baptist go in following the Mosaic laws in Scripture? Do they/you follow any of the tenants of the OT law?

Are IFB antinomians?

Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
9 "Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Romans 6:1-2
1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
2 "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Although many IFB churches vary in doctrine and teaching, most will agree on this
We are save by GRACE through faith/belief in what Jesus alone did.
We can't "work our way" to salvation. Jesus is the one and only way, truth, life, propitation for our sins, redeemer, advocate between God and man.

When we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us and helps guide us to what is pleasing to the Lord and away from what is not pleasing to the Lord.
Whether or not a person keeps the commandments has nothing to do with salvation.  After we are saved, we SHOULD have the desire to bear fruit pleasing to the Lord. So although it is not required of us to keep "the law", I do believe that most would say they also believe that the 10 commandments (for instance) are good guidelines to adhere to. After a person is saved, they should have the desire NOT to take God's name in vain, not to kill/murder, nor to steal, nor to bear false witness against anyone, to obey/respect parents, not to covet, not to make idols or images, and definitely not to worship other "gods".

As for "keeping the sabbath" (and other OT tenets) I think Paul dealt very well with these things in Colossians 2:16-17 " Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

 As for the Lord's commandments to grace/church age believers: 1 John 3:23 "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."  

When Jesus was asked by the Pharisees which is the greatest commandment of the law, here is how He answered: Matt.22:37-40 
37 "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."
38 "This is the first and great commandment."
39 "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
40 "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

As I stated, since the Holy Spirit indwelling us guides us into doing things pleasing to the Lord, these things are not burdensome or grievous (as 1 John 5:3 also attests). But again, our salvation is NOT contingent upon keeping the commandments, but is contingent upon belief/faith in what Jesus alone has done.

On 7/25/2016 at 6:29 PM, wretched said:

I suspect Google has been "on fire" over this one! It was for me.

antinomians?  Yes! I thought I had a well-rounded vocabulary, but "Bing" had to define that for me as well.