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The Gap theory GARBAGE


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OK

A few posts back, I asked the question;

Like I said, dinosaurs deserve an explanation and a "gap theory" is the closest thing I have found to one as of yet. That is why I asked; why are there no dinosaur bones in the La Brea Tarpit deposits? There have been thousands of extinct critters including mammoths. mastodons, smilodons(sabre-toothed cats) dire wolves, giant ground sloths etc. but out of hundreds of different species there have been no dinosaurs found. Why?

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If I understand correctly a fossil can be carbon dated because it was once organic, but say a flint rock cannot be. However lava rocks can be dated because they consumed organic material while in liquid form. Unlike God's information, this may have changed in last 10 years or so due to some kind of new test or theory. 

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On 7/16/2016 at 7:04 PM, Steve Schwenke said:

Do you know any pastor who has every single doctrine and preference 100% correct?

So I think there is a distinction to be made between essential doctrine, and non-essential doctrine.  That is, doctrine that we cannot budge on at all, then other doctrines where we can respect each other where we don't agree.  

 

Yes, my pastor!  Well, maybe 99.99% :D

As for your second point, I see the opposite in the words of the bible.  If my local church one day started preaching the Gap, whomever did so would be admonished for it and if unable to vote them out, then I'd beat feet to a sound New Testament Church.  I've never seen a good NTC that taught the Gap, they always held to other doctrines in gross error because they did same the same with them as they did to believe in the fallacy of the gap, they redefined the meaning of God's Words to to tickle their ears.  The most glaring example around where I live, is their women dress like the world in all its immodesty and it goes without saying that they listen to CCM and secular rock music.  Scratch the surface and one will find even more offensive errors.   

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5 hours ago, heartstrings said:

OK

A few posts back, I asked the question;

Like I said, dinosaurs deserve an explanation and a "gap theory" is the closest thing I have found to one as of yet. That is why I asked; why are there no dinosaur bones in the La Brea Tarpit deposits? There have been thousands of extinct critters including mammoths. mastodons, smilodons(sabre-toothed cats) dire wolves, giant ground sloths etc. but out of hundreds of different species there have been no dinosaurs found. Why?

Well you could consider the fact that all dinosaurs are not extinct for one thing. They live all around us as reptiles. Ken Ham once said that if people would consider that most large dinosaurs that were on the ark - no more that 24 inches tall as an average - could easily mingle amongst the crowd in the ark.

Now we don't really have any 24 inch dinosaurs around my area of the country, but there are or were some Komodo Dragons at the Cincinnati Zoo a few years back.

A gap theory is not needed to explain dinosaurs at all. But back in the 1800's a bunch of ministers accepted that view to fend off believers who liked Darwinism, AND the Bible.

They had no other excuse the people would accept at that time. They corrupted the truth for comfort.

Reptiles are unlike most creatures - the older they get, the larger they get. So before the flood timeline you have reptiles living very long lives and continuing to grow - producing very large reptiles we recognize as dinosaurs. Since then ages of reptiles AND man have shortened an extreme amount. Compare the giant turtles - living sometimes hundreds of years - and their size, compared to their babies. Humongous size difference!

You might enjoy some Ken Ham documentaries.

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Swathdiver,

I understand where you are coming from regarding keeping a pure church.  One of the most important things to guard is our doctrine.  I get that.  I am a pastor, so I REALLY get that!  
My point here is that I believe there is a difference between heresy, error, and non-essential differences.  Some people teach it as DOCTRINE that a woman must always wear a dress.  To me that is not doctrine, that is preference, and certainly nothing to divide over.  Immodesty is something that should be warned against, the older women should teach the younger women what modesty is, with emphasis on "the inner man" (I Peter 3).  But to call it "heresy" to NOT teach that a woman should always wear a dress is a bit too far.

The same point applies to the gap.  There are plenty of good, sound churches who hold to the Gap, have good clean music, have modest women, and all of the above.  We as human beings are never going to fully agree on every little point, and the Bible does not expect that.  In fact, the Bible anticipates that we have minor differences.  But the Bible also expects us to set aside our minor differences, and come together into the unity of Christ.

This was the whole idea behind teh Fundamentalist movement in the early 1900's.  Rally around the fundamentals to fight against modernism and liberalism.  

And here I think we can be gracious enough with others on this Gap issue, if they are sound in most other places.  I am thinking of people like Oliver Greene and the like.  Good, sound, Bible believing people who have much truth and who can help us a great deal.  If you can't look past something like the Gap, and focus on what is good, in my opinion, we are not much better than any other cult.  

We can only listen to THESE preachers, and read THESE books, but anything with what I consider an ERROR cannot be read!!!  

Yep, that has "cult" written all over it!

 

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There are no more dinosaurs because dinosaurs are/were quite tasty.  Man gobbled them up faster than they could make more and their bones I'm sure were put to many good uses around the homestead and cities.  Anyone ever eaten alligator?  Quite good indeed!  

 

Preacher Schwenke, I would hesitate to call a congregation full of immodestly dressed women a New Testament Church.  The Lord says it is an abomination for a woman to dress as a man and visa versa.  Such is a matter of the heart and it is good and proper for the pastor to require his workers to dress properly to set an example for the other members.  

As for cults, the best way to steer clear of them is to have the scriptures be the sole authority for all matters of faith and practice.  Cults follow the dictates of man.  I lost several good friends to the Ruckman cult and his nutty doctrines.  Now having said that, I do not believe that everyone who likes Ruckman or some of his interpretations of bible doctrine is a cult follower.

Edited by swathdiver
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16 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Well you could consider the fact that all dinosaurs are not extinct for one thing. They live all around us as reptiles. Ken Ham once said that if people would consider that most large dinosaurs that were on the ark - no more that 24 inches tall as an average - could easily mingle amongst the crowd in the ark.

Now we don't really have any 24 inch dinosaurs around my area of the country, but there are or were some Komodo Dragons at the Cincinnati Zoo a few years back.

A gap theory is not needed to explain dinosaurs at all. But back in the 1800's a bunch of ministers accepted that view to fend off believers who liked Darwinism, AND the Bible.

They had no other excuse the people would accept at that time. They corrupted the truth for comfort.

Reptiles are unlike most creatures - the older they get, the larger they get. So before the flood timeline you have reptiles living very long lives and continuing to grow - producing very large reptiles we recognize as dinosaurs. Since then ages of reptiles AND man have shortened an extreme amount. Compare the giant turtles - living sometimes hundreds of years - and their size, compared to their babies. Humongous size difference!

You might enjoy some Ken Ham documentaries.

Geneva,

So you're saying that if a gecko, crocodile, horned toad, camelion or komodo dragon had the chance to live long enough, they would turn into dinosaurs? There is nothing living today thast even has the FORM of a dinosaur, size notwithstanding. Like I asked before, how come no dinos in the LaBrea tar pit deposits? Thousands of extinct mammal bones and zero dinosaurs.

FORM: there are no 'reptiles" living today with these body conformations; none.

Image result for dinosaurs

 

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It's a popular theory that dinos were just large lizards, and while it is possible a few were, because reptiles, generally, continue to grow as long as they live, and if they lived to be 600 years old, they'd be pretty impressive, I do agree that the bodies don't seem to correspond, for the most part, that the fossils we find. Though some may-like, who knows what a 600 year old horned lizard might look like at, say, 20' long? Or a komodo dragon, that gets 10 feet as is, if it had a few hundred more years to grow? However, I suspect many were unique animals, most of which died off at the flood. That Noah brought some along with him on the ark wouldn't surprise me, but they would be the dragons we hear of, most of which were killed off by 'heroes' and such. Lots of interesting stories of people encountering dinosaurs, much smaller than we generally think, because of the different atmosphere and shorter lifespans. And many may have died off after the flood if that is what began the ice age, as it were-a colder place for a while after the flood, another theory.

The bottom line is, we don't need a gap to explain the dinosaurs, the Bible says all the beasts of the field were created on day 6-we don't know how many, and there was probably a much larger land mass, and overall warmer weather all over, since the earth was created to be inhabited, the whole thing, unlike today were life is almost impossible in many places.

As for why they aren't found in the tar pits, well, who knows? They may have been, but it is kept from the public because it would destroy the theory, which is more important than fact to the evolutionary science position. And they certainly haven't found everything yet-if they were bigger, they may be lower down than the smaller mammals, or just too big to get stuck or sink in.

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Wayne, I believe that before the flood the oxygen content of the earth's atmosphere was much higher and her temperature was uniform across the globe.  Everything was bigger, birds, insects, animals and even giant men were common.  It stands to reason that the dinosaurs were bigger too.  Now come post flood, it's really hot in some places and really cold in others and the oxygen content of the air is less than half of what it once was.  Nothing now grows as big as before, generally speaking of course.

Outside of our church's school we have a mammoth bone that was unearthed nearby.  Further south, one if not two, I forget, mammoths were unearthed at Palm Beach International Airport during an expansion.  It is a sport for Florida divers to recover Mastadon? shark's teeth from freshwater caverns.  I have a zip lock bag full of fossilized shark's teeth from the surf of Gulf Coast beaches.

Man did indeed walk with dinosaurs.  An English pirate in the 1500s, David something, wrote an account of seeing a T-Rex along the Penobscot River and that the Indians were terrified of them as was he.  There are pictures on rocks and carved into wood all over the world of man with dinosaurs, including American Indians out west.  One kingdom had as a title the dragon feeder.    

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Swath, I agree-oxygen bubbles tested in some examples of amber show a higher amount of oxygen, up to 50% more than today. With a higher oxygen level and a stronger magnetic field, such huge animals could survive-they could not today at that size-they could not take in enough oxygen to breathe through the small nostrils in cases like Brachiosaurus, the size of a horse's nostrils.

I think the sharks you're talking about were the Megalodon shark, a gigantic shark, probably still alive, just smaller.

Another example of men and dinosaurs is the writings of Marco Polo who said that the Emperor of China had his chariot pulled in parades by two 'dragons', and that his court has an official 'Dragon Keeper'. Most of his writings are considered a first-hand view of reality, a reliable source. But this is often ignored or discounted.  

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I don't know if I buy the higher concentration of oxygen theory: Blue whales are by far the largest known creatures which have ever lived, and they get along just fine on today's oxygen; even holding their breath for long periods of time.

Blue-Whale-Size-Chart.jpg

 

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Big differences: they live in water, and have a much larger breathing apparatus than a Brachiosaurus did. They have two blowholes, larger than 20" each, (that's the size of a humpback, much smaller than a blue, so theirs could be as much as twice as large).   But the higher oxygen content would also explain why other animals grew so much larger, ie, giant sloths, 18' tall Rhinos, 6' beavers, dragonflies with a 50" wingspan, etc. Again the oxygen has been tested from bubbles in amber and found to be higher concentrate.

A brachiosaurus had nostrils the size of a horse's, which would be way insufficient for today's oxygen levels.

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