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Mid Tribulation fleeing of Israel


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3 hours ago, DaveW said:

OK then, since it is apparently so difficult to understand....

You posted this:

I asked:

You replied:

Now please note: NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE PASSAGE YOU QUOTED DO YOU SEE EITHER RUSSIA OR THE MUSLIMS MENTIONED.

I then replied:

Note that I said I thought it was probably reasonable speculation, but YOU STATED IT AS OUTRIGHT FACT ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS.

In STATING IT AS OUTRIGHT FACT you are going beyond the Bible.

As unlikely as it appears to us today, you have to agree that it is possible (Incredibly unlikely, but possible) that in some way the Muslim religion ceases to exist before the time of the passage to which you refer.

And as unlikely as it appears to us today, it is possible that Russia could cease to exist before the time spoken of in the passage you refer to.

THEREFORE because of the fact that you STATE THESE THIGNS IN THE TERMS OF A CATEGORICAL FACT you are going beyond the Bible.

It is really not all that difficult to understand.

State the exact same premise in the terms of likely speculation, or even in terms of probable fulfillment, and I have no problem - I actually agree that in light of what we know today, your premise is the most likely - BUT IS IT NOT BIBLICAL FACT.

And for reference I mentioned that people at one time thought that Napoleon was the anti-Christ. It seemed to make sense to them at the time, but THEIR SPECULATION WAS WRONG

A good number of people also thought that Hitler was the anti-Christ. It made sense to them at the time, but THEIR SPECULATION WAS WRONG.

 

And by the way, there is no indication of Muslims in the Bible - it is various brands of Arab peoples that can be referred to Biblically, but not muslims in general. The fact that the overwhelming majority of Arab nations are also Muslim is true, but biblically irrelevant. You can point to various brands of Arab peoples and SPECULATE about a muslim link, but biblically the only true link that can be made is to their Arab heritage, not their religion per se.

 

In STATING SUCH THINGS AS OUTRIGHT FACT you are going beyond the Bible, and that leads to dangerous places.

 

 

 

  Still don't know what you're getting at, as neither Islam nor Russia existed in Biblical times. But God, of course, knew they WOULD exist, so He mentioned the peoples that would  become parts of Russia, and some whu would become Islamic nations. Had God said "Russia" or "Islam" to Ezekiel, he wouldn't have known what God was talking about.

   God didn't name Assyria or Babylon well-in-advance to Israel & Judah when He told each of them they'd be conquered by strong nations from the north, although both Assyria & Babylon existed at the time. But he DID tell Hezekiah that some day the gold & silver in the temple would be carried off to Babylon.

 

  I don't see how maning nations from Scripture and pointing out the current nations that descended from them is going beyong the Bible.

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18 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  Still don't know what you're getting at, as neither Islam nor Russia existed in Biblical times. But God, of course, knew they WOULD exist, so He mentioned the peoples that would  become parts of Russia, and some whu would become Islamic nations. Had God said "Russia" or "Islam" to Ezekiel, he wouldn't have known what God was talking about.

   God didn't name Assyria or Babylon well-in-advance to Israel & Judah when He told each of them they'd be conquered by strong nations from the north, although both Assyria & Babylon existed at the time. But he DID tell Hezekiah that some day the gold & silver in the temple would be carried off to Babylon.

 

  I don't see how maning nations from Scripture and pointing out the current nations that descended from them is going beyong the Bible.

God through Daniel did mention the medes and the Greeks before hand and God actually named Cyrus 150 years before he was born in Isaiah.

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6 hours ago, Invicta said:

God through Daniel did mention the medes and the Greeks before hand and God actually named Cyrus 150 years before he was born in Isaiah.

 Correct! but He didn't mention Russia nor Islam. But history shows Magog, etc. became part of what's now Russia, Turkey, etc. same as Persia became Iran. I can't see how calling those ancient peoples by the names of the nations they later became is going beyond the Bible. As things stand right now, there's no nation named Magog with a leader called Gog, so why not use their current names?

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15 hours ago, robycop3 said:

 Correct! but He didn't mention Russia nor Islam. But history shows Magog, etc. became part of what's now Russia, Turkey, etc. same as Persia became Iran. I can't see how calling those ancient peoples by the names of the nations they later became is going beyond the Bible. As things stand right now, there's no nation named Magog with a leader called Gog, so why not use their current names?

Magog is now Georgia, now independent from Russia, I believe.

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On 3/22/2019 at 7:45 AM, robycop3 said:

  Think you're right, but they might well go along with Russia in that future war.

Ezekiel 38:3-7

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

 

Russia is the guard so Russia is Magog.

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13 hours ago, Eric Stahl said:

Ezekiel 38:3-7

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

 

Russia is the guard so Russia is Magog.

  That's what I've said for years. Russia is cash-strapped now, & will continue to be. Once the AC brokers a deal which'll cause the Muslims & Jews to disarm,  the Muslims, still bearing their hatred of Israel, will make a deal for Russia to arm &  lead them in an attack upon Israel, which'll then be "a land of unwalled villages".

 

  Notice that  all the nations that existed then, as well as those that were formed from those that no longer exist are all Muslim, except those that are now part ofd Russia. And also notice that Arabia, the seat of Islam, is not among them.

 

  The Muslims have never been very good fighters , except for the Turks, & WW1 showed they were pretty inept at MODERN warfare. Thus, they'll want Russia to lead them, both for their battle expertise, & their arms.

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4 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  That's what I've said for years. Russia is cash-strapped now, & will continue to be. Once the AC brokers a deal which'll cause the Muslims & Jews to disarm,  the Muslims, still bearing their hatred of Israel, will make a deal for Russia to arm &  lead them in an attack upon Israel, which'll then be "a land of unwalled villages".

 

  Notice that  all the nations that existed then, as well as those that were formed from those that no longer exist are all Muslim, except those that are now part ofd Russia. And also notice that Arabia, the seat of Islam, is not among them.

 

  The Muslims have never been very good fighters , except for the Turks, & WW1 showed they were pretty inept at MODERN warfare. Thus, they'll want Russia to lead them, both for their battle expertise, & their arms.

I believe it will be the Shiite Muslims with Russia and the antichrist with the Sunni Muslims from the tribes of Sheba and Dedan in Arabia.God will turn back the Russians till Israel destroys her neighbors. Psalm 83 and Obadiah. Then God will pull Russia against Israel and the antichrists army. Ezekiel 38 & 39

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On 4/3/2019 at 4:36 PM, Eric Stahl said:

I believe it will be the Shiite Muslims with Russia and the antichrist with the Sunni Muslims from the tribes of Sheba and Dedan in Arabia.God will turn back the Russians till Israel destroys her neighbors. Psalm 83 and Obadiah. Then God will pull Russia against Israel and the antichrists army. Ezekiel 38 & 39

  I believe GOD will directly intervene for Israel here, as Israel will be disarmed. This will be the first of His showing the Jews that Jesus is indeed Messiah.

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4 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  I believe GOD will directly intervene for Israel here, as Israel will be disarmed. This will be the first of His showing the Jews that Jesus is indeed Messiah.

Israel will not give up her nukes. She will blow away Syria Isaiah 17 and Egypt Isaiah19.And all her neighbors Psalm 83. Israel 's glory will be made thin also Isaiah17  so the antichrist will come to help Daniel 11:36-45.

 

Obadiah :18

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

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11 hours ago, Eric Stahl said:

Israel will not give up her nukes. She will blow away Syria Isaiah 17 and Egypt Isaiah19.And all her neighbors Psalm 83. Israel 's glory will be made thin also Isaiah17  so the antichrist will come to help Daniel 11:36-45.

 

Obadiah :18

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

I doubt if Israel would escape from damaging herfself if she used nuclear bombs on her neighbours, from radiation and electrical failure.

 

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11 hours ago, Invicta said:

I doubt if Israel would escape from damaging herfself if she used nuclear bombs on her neighbours, from radiation and electrical failure.

 

 

11 hours ago, Invicta said:

I doubt if Israel would escape from damaging herfself if she used nuclear bombs on her neighbours, from radiation and electrical failure.

 

  The House of Esau was the nation of Edom, which was in what's now the nation of Jordan. But I don't believe the antichrist will be involved in the Gog-Magog war; it'll catch him by surprise & will be over before he can act.

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3 hours ago, robycop3 said:

 

  The House of Esau was the nation of Edom, which was in what's now the nation of Jordan. But I don't believe the antichrist will be involved in the Gog-Magog war; it'll catch him by surprise & will be over before he can act.

The Idumeans in the first century were the Edomites. They were incorporated in the Jewish religion.  Herod was an Idumean, possibly part Jewiah,  I don't know. The Idumeans took part in the Jewish revolt against the Romans in AD 66-70.  

 

 

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7 hours ago, robycop3 said:

 

  The House of Esau was the nation of Edom, which was in what's now the nation of Jordan. But I don't believe the antichrist will be involved in the Gog-Magog war; it'll catch him by surprise & will be over before he can act.

Antichrist will come to help Israel after the Psalm 83 war, and will move from Egypt to Israel to set up his camp when he hears the Russians and Persians are coming.

Daniel 11:42-45

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

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3 hours ago, Invicta said:

The Idumeans in the first century were the Edomites. They were incorporated in the Jewish religion.  Herod was an Idumean, possibly part Jewiah,  I don't know. The Idumeans took part in the Jewish revolt against the Romans in AD 66-70.  

 

 

Esau or the Palistians helped the Babylonians and will all die for it.

Obadiah 1:9-11

9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.

10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.

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