Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

is it sin to lie?


Recommended Posts

  • Members
I am still in disbelief that anyone would think lying is ok under certain circumstances.

Should your husband lie when you ask him how you look and you look awful. She he spare your feelings and tell you that you look wonderful. At what point do we allow the Devil to gain victory in our life by following the father of lies.

As to the wisemen. They did not lie. They intended to go back to Herod, but Go told them "AFTER" to go a different way. I tell my son all the time that sometimes I make a promise to him and then have to break it because of extenuating circumstances. I did not lie, I just didn't know what was coming around the corner.


As to the "Revolutionary War". We have had this fight, but the term "Revolutionary" is a modern term. We celebrate "Independence Day". The correct name is the "War for Independence".


Me to PastorJ. I posted this while ago, but it got lost in computer land some where, when I hit submit it was gone gone, I'm trying again.

The best thing to do, is to do right and sufferer the consequences, no matter the occasion.

Telling a lie, even a half lie, is a sin against God.

Oh, I'm going to tell the fellow that I don't believe in God, that beats getting murdered because I believe in God, besides that look at all the good I can do if I just tell a lie and keep on living and serving God. That is just human reasoning. To do so would be a complete dishonor to all of those who many years ago died at the stake, or were burned to death refusing to denounce God's truths. But more than that it would be to deny my faith in God in front of God and people even to save my life would be to bring dishonor on God and Jesus.

What better thing can any believer do for the Father of Jesus Christ our Savior than to die refusing to denounce our faith in Him?

Do I know what I would do in such situations? No, I haven't been there, I have not been tested on that, but I know what is right and what I hope I would do, that is put my life in God's hands and do His will which is not to sin for no reason.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 69
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Members
Are you implying that the Revolutionary War was wrong on America's part? It was sin for us to "rebel" against England like that?


Well, "America" didn't kill people. Can you make a list of Biblical reasons to start a war with England and to REBEL against them. (And no we didn't determine that Revolutionary was a new term and to prove that all we have to do is to quote the founding fathers. It WAS called the American Revolution right from the start.)

"Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people . . . . This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution."
John Adams, 1818

Objects of the most stupendous magnitude, and measure in which the lives and liberties of millions yet unborn are intimately interested, are now before us. We are in the very midst of a revolution the most complete, unexpected and remarkable of any in the history of nations.
John Adams, letter to William Cushing, June 9, 1776

". . .In defence of the freedom that is our birthright. . .we have taken up arms. We shall lay them down when hostilities shall cease on the part of the agressors, and all danger of their being renewed shall be removed, and not before." John Hancock,
In his pamphlet, Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of taking up Arms, July 6, 1775. From Revolution to Reconstruction

The American war is over; but this far from being the case with the American revolution. On the contrary, nothing but the first act of the drama is closed. It remains yet to establish and perfect our new forms of government, and to prepare the principles, morals, and manners of our citizens for these forms of government after they are established and brought to perfection.
Benjamin Rush, May 25, 1786


Look, it's no sin to call it the American Revolution and history is on my side. I enjoy being a citizen of America, but biblically speaking, could someone give me Biblical support for men to have revolted against England? I can show you the fight for liberty, freedom to determine destinies, etc, but American citizens were not hindered from serving God by England. Where there good Christian British officers fighting for England? When a good English Christian Britain killed a good Christian Colonial... were they both right? And that's my point... a lot of things are done under the guise of being on the "right side", but we must search the scripture, search our own hearts and seek God before we accept that "killing and lying is ok in war."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Hm. Sorry I seem to be the thread heretic this time. LOL. Oh well! All I see is that Rahab was commended for her deed. There were other times deceit was used...goodness, 12 men went to "spy" out Canaan! Is spying good or bad? Sneaking around, peeking at things? I'm just saying that there is a pattern of deceit during wartime in Scripture...I'm not saying you or I should lie, but I am saying there is a reason for everything in Scripture.

And regarding killing...do a study in the OT how many times God commanded Israel to kill or destroy other nations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Hm. Sorry I seem to be the thread heretic this time. LOL. Oh well! All I see is that Rahab was commended for her deed. There were other times deceit was used...goodness, 12 men went to "spy" out Canaan! Is spying good or bad? Sneaking around, peeking at things? I'm just saying that there is a pattern of deceit during wartime in Scripture...I'm not saying you or I should lie, but I am saying there is a reason for everything in Scripture.

And regarding killing...do a study in the OT how many times God commanded Israel to kill or destroy other nations.

I understand completely, I am NOT calling you a heretic. I've actually heard some interesting arguments about the lies of Abraham, Rahab, etc. I can even see your argument from a perspective of the Bible. My point (which got lost in my American Revolution rabbit trail) was that it's a hard position to be in and I suppose someone could argue God's permissive will vs. God's perfect will, etc.

I don't have it all figured out. Like I said, I wouldn't think twice about killing someone who was trying to kill my family. Even if they were trying to kill my family because I was on the wrong side of a conflict. That's why war and death are so sad. We may be the agent that sends someone to eternity... a hard place to be.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would certainly never encourage anyone to lie because there is MUCH scripture saying that it is wrong, but there are a few scriptures that are difficult. For example in this case, I just don't know why it seemed to be alright, but the passage would seem to indicate that it was, after all, God was helping Elisha do it.

" 2 Kings 6:8-20 Then the king of Syria warred against Israel, and took counsel with his servants, saying, In such and such a place shall be my camp. And the man of God sent unto the king of Israel, saying, Beware that thou pass not such a place; for thither the Syrians are come down. And the king of Israel sent to the place which the man of God told him and warned him of, and saved himself there, not once nor twice. Therefore the heart of the king of Syria was sore troubled for this thing; and he called his servants, and said unto them, Will ye not shew me which of us is for the king of Israel? And one of his servants said, None, my lord, O king: but Elisha, the prophet that is in Israel, telleth the king of Israel the words that thou speakest in thy bedchamber. And he said, Go and spy where he is, that I may send and fetch him. And it was told him, saying, Behold, he is in Dothan. Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about. And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha. And Elisha said unto them, This is not the way, neither is this the city: follow me, and I will bring you to the man whom ye seek. But he led them to Samaria. And it came to pass, when they were come into Samaria, that Elisha said, LORD, open the eyes of these men, that they may see. And the LORD opened their eyes, and they saw; and, behold, they were in the midst of Samaria."

While you could say that he did lead them to the man that they they wanted(him) it would certainly look like they were in the right place to begin with and that he told them they weren't and led them into a trap. All apparently with the Lords approval since the Lord was blinding them so that they would believe him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

sometimes people do have to lie because of sin nature. In a perfect world, no one would have to worry about lying.

There are many women who lied to protect themselves and their children from abusive men.

I'm not saying it is ok to lie. just saying people feel they have to do it when they wished it didn't have to be that way.

(and sometimes it work alot better if we obey God so we don't end up putting ourselves in those situation)

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Is this actually from the UMC or is it just an interpretation of yours? I don't mean to be offensive, but I have never heard this before and I have a pretty good knowledge of the beliefs that the UMC stands for. While, yes, many of them are way off base, I never saw or heard of anything this blatantly foolish from their doctrine.



I would like to know if the UMC has said this in their doctrine, somewhere, as well. I suppose with various opposing UMC church beliefs, though, it could be possible. :puzzled: BTW, the 2 UMC's in my town are as far apart in doctrinal beliefs, as the east is from the west. You have the far right and the way left...


Lying is a sin. Period. IM4Given, thank you for the scriptural references.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
If Rahab told the truth' date=' do you think the Lord would still commended her? I do. because it would mean she trust the LORD whatever happen. Although, it would seem like she betrayed them.[/quote']

Actually, I think the lying was the proof that she was willing to trust the Lord...she saved the lives of God's people which was not even her religion or practice. What was she supposed to do..."Oh here they are, under the haystack, fast asleep." :lol: Suuuuure.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Did Jesus ever lie, remember He set the example for us to follow.

Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

I can just hear it, someone claiming, I lied, but its oK, God allows for us to lie.

There is a way that seems right to man, it comes from worldy wisdom that when its to our advantage, lie about it.

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members



I would like to know if the UMC has said this in their doctrine, somewhere, as well. I suppose with various opposing UMC church beliefs, though, it could be possible. :puzzled: BTW, the 2 UMC's in my town are as far apart in doctrinal beliefs, as the east is from the west. You have the far right and the way left...


Lying is a sin. Period. IM4Given, thank you for the scriptural references.


You are most welcome. At the risk of being "too legalistic" - the Bible clearly states lying is a sin - even worse than a sin it is an abomination! There are several things that are considered abominations and lying is one of them....

16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


... the Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it! :amen:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


You are most welcome. At the risk of being "too legalistic" - the Bible clearly states lying is a sin - even worse than a sin it is an abomination! There are several things that are considered abominations and lying is one of them....

16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


... the Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it! :amen:


I agree, but for some it will not be setteled.

Remember the young girl at Columbine high school that said she believed in God, them the fellow blwe her away with his gun.

I'm sure many will say that she should have lied and said, "I do not believe in God."

I wonder what that says for the many who died refusing to deny their belief in Jesus Christ dying on the cross so that they might have not be murdered.


http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0563.htm

http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0410.htm

http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0593.htm

http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0525.htm

Would not lying show lack of faith in God? That is without lying they believe God cannot help you or without lying God's will could not be done?

Do we really have to lie to help God out? I think not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

LOL you guys are like going all crazy, we point out Ezekiel and you guys act like we are advocating regular lying.

Tell me Ezekiel sinned in the aforementioned passage.

He did not.

But we are not Ezekiel.

That is Bible just as much as the "thou shalt not lie" is Bible. So we compare Scripture with Scripture and I have found that in times of war or conflict between nations, sometimes lying is used as a military defense and is not condemned by
Scripture.

My point in saying so isn't to justify modern day lying, but because I do not believe Rahab sinned when she hid the spies and deceived the soldiers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...