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Salvation question


Matthew24

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17 hours ago, wretched said:

I think the bulk of your post is correct but from a very different perspective than mine. I realize you have little understanding of the current and growing practices in IFB churches in America, many of which have allowed themselves more and more exposure to the false emerging rock and roll church movement starting really with Billy Graham many years ago, Mainly by reading their philosophy in books and articles. 

Your example above is not the example I am talking about at all but you don't see it because you don't see the type of witnessing that has become standard practice in the states.

The fornicator exampled in your post has at least been baptized and was part of the assembly. He demonstrated evidence of the new birth at some point and obviously fell into sin.  I am not referring to that type of person in any way.

For the men you asked about, I don't know of them.

 

 

 

Hello Wretched, you are right that I know little of trends in America, I listen to a few American preachers, so I hear reference to churches with bands and special effects, just like in a dance, I have saw some clips on YouTube with women dancing sensually in front of the church, and some poor black brother in unbelief trying to point out the error, and I know little of the emergent church stuff, I have a Sister In Law who goes to a strange church, very little emphasis or even reference to the Scripture or doctrine (if any) and they don't evangelist or witness, they do a 'treasure hunt', they stand in the street and do a huddle until someone 'sees' an object in their mind, such as a red jumper or a pair of blue trousers, then they look for the object, and the unfortunate person who happens to be wearing it is approached with whatever their version of the gospel is, My wife came off the phone to her once all exited with all the new tactics of evangelism,  I somewhat flew off the handle, It seemed to me to be some spirit that came with it, due to the excitement over strange practices that was generated, there is weird stuff going on in one or two of the churches round here too.

The preachers I listen to (D.A.Waite, Johnathan Modene, Ralph Arnold, David Cloud) all stress the importance of going to a local fellowship, but they also emphasize the importance of correct teaching, and I don't see the point of sitting listening to un-Biblical teaching, unless it is simply for fellowship and the fellowship is a mission field, but I am not mature enough to do that.

As far as Ralph Arnold goes, he does do a sinners prayer as such, but I think that is more of an evangelistic tactic, it might be wrong, but I would still treat it different from the gospel and the teaching in general. I can't say I have come across any scriptures which support a sinners prayer, but many churches which don't have an appeal are Calvinistic, and don't have an appeal because in their mind there would be no point, since God is going to do it all. A heathen could attend some churches for a very long time before realizing that one must be born again. When I got saved, I believed I was eternally secure, before ever going to church or hearing a preacher, I was saved by reading the Bible, when I went to church, it was because of a street effort i stumbled across, I used to go up the front every meeting, I might have wondered off into the wilderness had it not been for the fact that many of the Christians were outgoing and encouraged me to fellowship, Modene puts it well, something like 'you are not saved by praying a prayer, you are saved by believing'. I would use the Scripture from Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.' I think as long as the Christian is willing to be led into all truth, then into all truth shall he be led. Amen.

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Matthew, the weakest faith is saving faith as long as the object of that faith is Jesus' death on the cross and His shed blood there.

I am including a link below to my testimony; it might help you.

To me, the third verse of the hymn "It Is Well with My Soul" by Horatio Spafford describes the reason I have complete assurance of knowing my sins are forgiven.

My sin, oh the bliss of this glorious thought,

My sin, not in part but the whole,

Is nailed to the cross, and I bare it no more,

Praise the Lord, Praise the Lord oh my soul.

 

http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/25297-my-testimony/?tab=comments#comment-425335

John

 

 

Edited by ldonjohn
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The Word of God states that we are to examine ourselves to see whether we are truly in the faith. God knows our hearts better than we know ours, but we are also to try ourselves to know whether or not if we are indeed saved.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5)

There is great emphasis regarding the pronouns "your own selves" and "you" in the Greek. This clearly implies that it is us who are to be tested by our way of living, and EXAMINE it. So we are to test our own selves and if our lifestyle fits the Christian walk. The word "reprobate" literally means a "counterfeit Christian", while the word "prove" (Gr. dokimen, "evidence," v.3) tells us we need to test the genuineness of our faith (cf. James 2:14-16). Matthew 13:30 states to allow the wheat and the tares to grow together because there are times when a counterfeit Christian can closely resemble a true Christian when they're around other Christians, and others may think that this person is truly saved and they are none the wiser. They can be knee deep in sin when they're apart from others, and others will be completely oblivious to it. I've seen counterfeit currency that appear authentic, and only a trained eye can spot the minute subtleties. So the reapers (angels) will gather the tares, bind them into bundles to burn them when the harvest is riped. 1st John 5:13 states that we can know with absolute certainty if we are saved or not (. . .ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life. 1 Jn. 5:13b). KNOW is in the present tense which means that we can know NOW without a doubt on whether we are truly saved or not. Intellectual assent of the Bible does not save. Many nominal Christians believe that they are indeed saved because they "feel" saved, when the reality of it is that they may not be saved at all. It is written:

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. (James 2:19)

Even devils tremble (literally to make ones hair stand on end). And these devils have more faith (not saving faith) than others that there is only One God, which is taken from the Shema (Deut. 6:4) It then states that the devils not only "believe" but have a "fear of God". There is "dead" faith, and then there is "saving faith." The devils not only believe that there is one God, but they go an extra step by having a "fear" of The Lord God Almighty. There are a lot of nominal Christians that claim that they are saved, and yet they are not cognizant that they may not be saved at all. These reprobates don't even know what "saving faith" is, and they also have "no fear of God" at all. The word fear does not mean that you're in "awe" in the context of "the fear of the Lord".  Now the Greek word for "fear" is phobias, and it means what it means.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.  (James 2:14-17)

True saving faith will result in good works, obedience, and a changed heart. A tree is known by its fruits:

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit.  For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. (Luke 6:43,44)

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (John 15:5,6)

In the parable of the vine and branches, the branches that produce no fruit are cast into the fire to be burned. This is referring to a non-believer since he/she produces no fruits of the Spirit. Every professing Christian should produce fruits of the Spirit because it is one of the indicators that he/she is born again. An example of spiritual fruits are: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. (Gal. 5:22,23)

Although there are many passages in the bible that teach Eternal Security, as promised by God. 1st John is a great book for those who doubt their salvation.

God Bless!

Edited by (Omega)
Grammar and additional info.
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On 2/19/2016 at 12:36 PM, swathdiver said:

We don't trust in our "feelings" or hearts, as it is deceitful and desperately wicked and foolish so says the bible.  We are to trust the Word of God and that if you made repentance before God and put your trust in Jesus Christ, then you are eternally saved.  The fruit you bear is evidence of that saving grace.

Great point, as we have to stand upon the sure foundation of the scriptures that tell us that we can know that we indeed now saved of the Lord, as the Holy Spirit and the scriptures both witness to us of that truth!

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On 6/4/2018 at 12:33 PM, Gismys said:



 

 

On 2/19/2016 at 6:59 AM, Matthew24 said:

I have a question regarding salvation.  I believe we are saved when we believe in the gospel....the moment. BUT, when I got saved I didn't really feel saved until I grew more as a christian, my faith grew, strengthened, and confirmed that i was indeed a child of God.  Sometimes I doubt that I was saved at that moment, because I didn't feel like it. On the other hand, I don't believe we are saved on confidence, but all faith we have on Jesus and 0 on everything else. In other words, it doesn't matter how much faith we have, just that it all must be on him.  Thoughts?

Agree with you Mathew 24, with the good name.

Its not by feelings but by believing Jesus. Some days you feel like a Christian and others days you think the Lord has forsaken you because youre so screwed up and such as a sinner, as per usual. It happens to us all, but the fact remains what Jesus has done for us whether we have the feelings or not remains true and to be believed.

 

Jesus is the author and finnisher of our FAITH, He will help us make it through. He gives us salvation, we did not earn it or deserve it and never will be able to earn it or deserve it, no matter how righteous we thinkwe have become. Its all Jesus. Agreed...

Know a verse He said, and stick with it forever even as you add other truths to your mind and heart and SOUL...and get stronger and STRONGER and STRONGER

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If we are going to move those mountains (Mk. 11:23), we have to learn how to let God build up our faith in the only way it is possible for that to happen: through testing (Ps. 66:10-12; Isa. 48:10; Rom. 5:3-4; 1 Pet. 1:6-7; 4:12-13; 5:10; James 1:2-4; 1 Cor. 10:13; cf. 2 Thess. 1:4). We know that we can trust Him in this process, moreover, because He really does have our best interests at heart at all times, so that while we may not be able to understand, He knows why everything is happening exactly as it is happening. We will never be able to "see" perfectly this side of heaven. But we can learn to trust the Lord that He does. I know from experience that this can be very frustrating. Just remember that God never puts on us anything we are not able to bear (1 Cor. 10:13), although there are /many/ times we may not /think/ we can bear up under it. In my experience, once we truly do give the problem over to the Lord in complete faith that He will handle it even though we are having a hard time with it, then the effect the evil one is trying to achieve is diminished and things usually then move on to the next test. Because Satan is not allowed to kill us (Job 1:12), we can relax in the sure and certain deliverance of God from all things that may seem frightful for whatever reason. We have to be ready to give our lives for Jesus, if that is our Lord's good pleasure. When we do get to that point, it is amazing how all of the other big things are revealed for what they are: little things. This is not an easy perspective to gain, nor is it an easy point of view to maintain. But if everything in our lives were proceeding without any "trouble" whatsoever, we would not have the testing necessary to grow. Astronauts who stay in space for long periods of time lose their muscle tone and in extreme cases have had to learn how to walk all over again when they return to earth.  

Christian testing is like gravity. It may weigh us down, and it may limit what we can do, but it is this resistance which build our spiritual muscle -- when we continue to push forward in spite of it, that is. So it all boils down to this: determining what is the right thing to do is in any situation, doing it, then leaving everything else to the Lord. When we truly have grown to the point of consistently adopting that attitude, we can laugh through whatever tears life brings, confident that God is working out for us an eternal weight of glorious reward (2 Cor. 4:17; cf. Rom. 8:17-18; 1 Pet. 1:6-7) that is not to be compared to any misfortune we experience here in this life. As I say, this is easier said than done, but if we are consistent in our taking in of the Word of God, our believing of the principles of truth, and our application of them to our lives, our faith will grow and we will be able to handle all manner of tests in the fashion of the great believers of the Bible -- and in anticipation of a great reward as we produce for Jesus Christ and help our fellow Christians do the same. We are allowed to be joyful, even when we are crying. We are allowed to thank God, even when our prayers are not immediately answered. We are allowed to trust Him, even when our eyes tell us that our situation is hopeless. We walk by faith, not by sight (2 Cor. 5:7 cf. Jn. 20:29), for "for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal" (2 Cor. 4:18b).

Paul was suffering, unjustly, and it was most certainly the will of God. But while most of us would complain, and only a few of us would trust God that He was indeed"working all things out together for good" (cf. Deut. 8:15-16) even though it didn't seem that way to us, who of us is of the mature Christian stature of a Paul to say "Thank you, Lord!". But if we saw things with God's eyes, that is what we would do. For there really is a purpose in our suffering (Rom. 5:3-4; Phil. 3:10; 2 Cor. 4:17; 1 Pet. 4:1; 5:10), just as much as in our blessing. I know from scripture and from experience that things which seem to be disasters at the time later are revealed to have been blessings through which God accomplished wonderful things (and it is certainly possible that such is the case in the difficulties of other believers as well). With hindsight, many Christians see such things, but it takes a very active, vibrant faith to see things that way */at the time/* because */at the time/* they can only be seen with faith. That is really the mark of the battle-tested, completely faithful Christian soldier, namely, a confidence in God that surpasses all earthly sense, a willingness to trust Him when the entire world is screaming that we are crazy to do so. Anyone can be a "good Christian" when the sun is shining. It takes true Christian character to stand up and trust the Lord when the sky is falling.

God Bless!

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