Jump to content
Online Baptist Community
  • Newest Sermon Entry

    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

What was Jesus' mission?


MountainChristian
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Matthew 1:21 And she (Mary) shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The question becomes who is "his people". Some teach this is the Jewish Nation. They are Mary's people and Jesus is Mary's son. What did Jesus say? 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Well that would mean everyone is "his people". God owning all the people, Jews & Gentiles.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Notice how Jesus uses the word "He" making it personal. So Jesus is saying salvation is personal not national. Did Jesus save his people from their sins? Do Jews have the way to Heaven? Do Gentiles have the way to Heaven? Is Jesus the way to salvation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, MountainChristian said:

Matthew 1:21 And she (Mary) shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The question becomes who is "his people". Some teach this is the Jewish Nation. They are Mary's people and Jesus is Mary's son. What did Jesus say? 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Well that would mean everyone is "his people". God owning all the people, Jews & Gentiles.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Notice how Jesus uses the word "He" making it personal. So Jesus is saying salvation is personal not national. Did Jesus save his people from their sins? Do Jews have the way to Heaven? Do Gentiles have the way to Heaven? Is Jesus the way to salvation?

All you say is true but remember the gospel of John was written way after Matthew and even Paul's revelation. The gospel went first to the Jew then to the Gentile. 

Matthew 10:5-7

[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The Gentiles are the other sheep he was to bring into the fold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Luke 1:32-33 [angel to Mary] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Sounds pretty Jewish to me
 
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:  Romans 15:8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
3 hours ago, beameup said:
Luke 1:32-33 [angel to Mary] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Sounds pretty Jewish to me
 
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathersRomans 15:8

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Why do you only quote half of that thought?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
10 minutes ago, MountainChristian said:

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Why do you only quote half of that thought?

 

 

Because the Jews never fulfilled that "mission".  Read your Old Testament.  Israel will become a light unto the Gentiles during the Millennium. 

I started a thread on the "Kingdom".  The verses are there.  It has not been fulfilled yet.  Isaiah 42:6, 49:6, 60:3, Luke 2:32, Acts 13:47, etc.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.  Romans 11:26-28
Edited by beameup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
4 hours ago, beameup said:

Because the Jews never fulfilled that "mission".  Read your Old Testament.  Israel will become a light unto the Gentiles during the Millennium. 

I started a thread on the "Kingdom".  The verses are there.  It has not been fulfilled yet.  Isaiah 42:6, 49:6, 60:3, Luke 2:32, Acts 13:47, etc.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.  Romans 11:26-28

 

Jesus said in John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. if you are correct wouldn't Jesus say, You are the light of the world?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Matthew 9:1 ¶ And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.

Mark 2:1 ¶ And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.

Mark 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.

Mark 2:3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.

Mark 2:4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matthew 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matthew 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.

Mark 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Matthew 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

Mark 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

Matthew 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?

Mark 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?

Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Mark 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

Mark 2:11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

Matthew 9:7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

Mark 2:12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

Matthew 9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

~~~~~

What did Jesus see? Faith or Works? What group said Jesus did not have the power to forgive sins when he saw faith?

How did the Jewish Apostle put it, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Would a Jewish man count as any man? Would a Gentile man count as any man?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MountainChristian said:

 

Jesus said in John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. if you are correct wouldn't Jesus say, You are the light of the world?

Doesn't the verse he quoted say that the nation of Israel would be a light to the Gentiles? Didn't Jesus say Christians are a light in this world? I don't see what the problem is. The Gentiles will be drawn to Christ through how he deals with his people. Just think of it as the moon reflecting the light of the sun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
8 hours ago, Critical Mass said:

Doesn't the verse he quoted say that the nation of Israel would be a light to the Gentiles? Didn't Jesus say Christians are a light in this world? I don't see what the problem is. The Gentiles will be drawn to Christ through how he deals with his people. Just think of it as the moon reflecting the light of the sun.

Doesn't the verse he quoted say that the nation of Israel would be a light to the Gentiles? No.

1) Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

                   I the LORD have called Jesus in righteousness, and will hold Jesus' hand, and will keep Jesus, and give Jesus for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; Was Jesus given for a new covenant? Yes.

                 Beameup's view. I the LORD have called Jews in righteousness, and will hold Jews' hand, and will keep Jews, and give Jews for a covenant of the Jews, for a light of the Gentiles;

1b) Isaiah 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. As you can see Beameup only quotes half of the thought. The whole thought removes all doubt that it was Jesus opening the eyes and freeing sinners from the prison of sin. When the apostles healed people it was always in Jesus' name, not because they was Jewish.

2) Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

                   And he said, It is a light thing that Jesus shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give Jesus for a light to the Gentiles, that Jesus mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins.   

                 Beameup's teaching. And he said, It is a light thing that Jews shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give Jews for a light to the Gentiles, that Jews mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Did Jews die on the cross for their own sins and the sins of the gentiles?

3) Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

               And the Gentiles shall come to Jesus' light, and kings to the brightness of Jesus rising. Have gentiles been saved by Jesus? Have kings been saved by Jesus?

4) Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

                     A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of Jesus' people Israel. vs A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of Jews people Israel. Which one makes sense?

5) Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

                    For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set Jesus to be a light of the Gentiles, that Jesus shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

 

Didn't Jesus say Christians are a light in this world? Yes. Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Notice the Ye is Christians like you said and they have been a light for 2000 years while Jesus has been gone. If the Ye is Jews, have they been a light to the world for the last 2000 years? No, they have not. And Jesus said "are". They was already that light.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6
the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.  And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Isaiah 60:2b-3
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. Luke 2:32   [Simeon in the Temple at the dedication of Jesus by his parents]
 
The Old Testament is loaded with prophecies concerning the Messiah and his Kingdom on earth, and that the glory of Israel will shine unto the Gentiles and that they will be blessed. 
These prophecies will be fulfilled following the Tribulation.  (I guess that some people simply cannot accept that God has a future plan for Israel).
 
And he [Messiah] said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places. Ezekiel 43:7 [Ezekiel is shown all things concerning the Millennial Temple in chapters 40-48]
Edited by beameup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
6 hours ago, beameup said:
I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6
the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.  And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Isaiah 60:2b-3
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. Luke 2:32   [Simeon in the Temple at the dedication of Jesus by his parents]
 
The Old Testament is loaded with prophecies concerning the Messiah and his Kingdom on earth, and that the glory of Israel will shine unto the Gentiles and that they will be blessed. 
These prophecies will be fulfilled following the Tribulation.  (I guess that some people simply cannot accept that God has a future plan for Israel).
 
And he [Messiah] said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places. Ezekiel 43:7 [Ezekiel is shown all things concerning the Millennial Temple in chapters 40-48]

I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6

Who is thee? Jesus or the Jewish People? Did the LORD give the Jewish people for a covenant of the people? Did the LORD give Jesus for a covenant that we call the New Testament?

~~~~

The Old Testament is loaded with prophecies concerning the Messiah and his Kingdom on earth, and that the glory of Israel will shine unto the Gentiles and that they will be blessed. 

Let me ask you this, Who is the glory of Israel? Is Israel their own glory or is Jesus their glory?

Was Jesus' mission to set up a kingdom or save people from their sins?

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
7 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

 The Old Testament is loaded with prophecies concerning the Messiah and his Kingdom on earth, and that the glory of Israel will shine unto the Gentiles and that they will be blessed. 

Let me ask you this, Who is the glory of Israel? Is Israel their own glory or is Jesus their glory?

Was Jesus' mission to set up a kingdom or save people from their sins?

 

 

 

 

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant [Jesus] to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6
Clearly, Israel will serve Yeshua Messiah and fulfill their destiny, during the Millennium, to be a light to the Gentiles.  Jesus obediently ministered to his "kinsmen", and the Kingdom was offered to them; however, the Nation of Israel rejected their destiny.... "for now".  Romans 15:8
 
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [Israel]: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.  Acts 13:46-47
We see that the Jews rejected their mission to be a light to the Gentiles, so the Gospel was taken directly to the Gentiles, and the Gentiles would fulfill the mission that was offered to Israel.  However, during the Millennium, Israel will fulfill their mission to be a light unto the Gentiles. [see Romans 11]
Edited by beameup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
3 hours ago, beameup said:
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant [Jesus] to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6
Clearly, Israel will serve Yeshua Messiah and fulfill their destiny, during the Millennium, to be a light to the Gentiles.  Jesus obediently ministered to his "kinsmen", and the Kingdom was offered to them; however, the Nation of Israel rejected their destiny.... "for now".  Romans 15:8
 
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [Israel]: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.  Acts 13:46-47
We see that the Jews rejected their mission to be a light to the Gentiles, so the Gospel was taken directly to the Gentiles, and the Gentiles would fulfill the mission that was offered to Israel.  However, during the Millennium, Israel will fulfill their mission to be a light unto the Gentiles. [see Romans 11]
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant [Jesus] to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee [Jesus] for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6

I will also give thee, refers back to my servant. Even Jesus Himself explained it John 8:12. Do you believe Jesus?

Then Paul and Barnabas[two Christian Jews] waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [Israel]: but seeing ye  put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we [Christian Jews] turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.  Acts 13:46-47

Using your reasoning they fulfilled the missionary calling because it was Christian Jews who spread the light of Jesus to the Gentiles not long after Jesus returned to Heaven. This is a perfect example of Christians living Matthew 5:14. I think you agree Saul/Paul was a Jew. So what about Barnabas? (Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.)

Paul speaking in (Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.) explained Jesus suffered, Jesus rose from the dead, Jesus shinned to the people, Jesus shinned to the Gentiles.

When every eye sees Jesus return do you think they will not know who he is?

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
13 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

 Was Jesus' mission to set up a kingdom or save people from their sins?

 

 

 

 

I'll just leave this with you to "ponder":

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:25-27
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he [Jesus] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 3:2-6
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9
Paul is stating here that this "mystery" was previously hidden and now is revealed directly to Paul by the risen Jesus Christ, from heaven.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: If I'm not mistaken, the world will be "ruled with a rod of iron" by Jesus Messiah during the Millennial Kingdom.  This surely sounds like Gentiles will be under a rule of LAW to me.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations [Gentiles]: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Rev 2:26-27
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Psalm 2:8-9
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
17 hours ago, beameup said:

I'll just leave this with you to "ponder":

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:25-27
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he [Jesus] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 3:2-6
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9
Paul is stating here that this "mystery" was previously hidden and now is revealed directly to Paul by the risen Jesus Christ, from heaven.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: If I'm not mistaken, the world will be "ruled with a rod of iron" by Jesus Messiah during the Millennial Kingdom.  This surely sounds like Gentiles will be under a rule of LAW to me.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations [Gentiles]: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Rev 2:26-27
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Psalm 2:8-9
 

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:25-27

Jewish Paul told the Colossians he was made a minister, not the only minister. Again Jewish Paul told the Colossians the mystery is now revealed to his saints. He never said saint meaning only himself.  

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he [Jesus] [Holy Spirit] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 3:2-6

Jewish Paul tells the Ephesians it was the spirit that revealed the mystery to him and too other apostles and prophets.

Paul is stating here that this "mystery" was previously hidden and now is revealed directly to Paul by the risen Jesus Christ, from heaven.

Yes, Paul is saying it was previously hidden. No, Paul said the Spirit revealed it to him, and that the Spirit revealed it the other apostles and prophets.  John 15:26-27 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
13 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

Yes, Paul is saying it was previously hidden. No, Paul said the Spirit revealed it to him, and that the Spirit revealed it the other apostles and prophets

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The gospel was hid in the OT. It was there (mostly in type) and the prophets earnestly sought it out but it was hidden (I Peter 1:10-12). In fact, not even the twelve Disciples understood what Jesus was talking about when he told them of his death, burial and resurrection (Luke 18:31-34). And this was AFTER he commanded them to go forth and preach the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom gospel they preached was NOT the death, burial and resurrection gospel that we preach today. That gospel was revealed to Paul who made it known to all the saints including Peter himself (Romans 16:25,26). Also, along with this revelation went the truth that Jew and Gentile would be united in one body called the church (i.e. the body of Christ). Anything that John may have written about was AFTER Paul's revelation and was brought back to his remembrance in due time by the Holy Ghost (John 14:26). This would explain why John's gospel is so much different than Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Read the verses. It's clear as midday sky. Only those set in the teachings of their denomination or the "original languages" over the bible will not see it. 

Edited by Critical Mass
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

4 minutes ago, Critical Mass said:

The gospel was hid in the OT. It was there (mostly in type) and the prophets earnestly sought it out but it was hidden (I Peter 1:10-12). In fact, not even the twelve Disciples understood what Jesus was talking about when he told them of his death, burial and resurrection (Luke 18:31-34). And this was AFTER he commanded them to go forth and preach the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom gospel they preached was NOT the death, burial and resurrection gospel that we preach today. That gospel was revealed to Paul who made it known to all the saints including Peter himself (Romans 16:25,26). Also, along with this revelation went the truth that Jew and Gentile would be united in one body called the church (i.e. the body of Christ). Anything that John may have written about was AFTER Paul's revelation and was brought back to his remembrance in due time by the Holy Ghost (John 14:26). This would explain why John's gospel is so much different than Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Read the verses. It's clear as midday sky. Only those set in the teachings of their denomination or the "original languages" over the bible will not see it. 

So, based on this theory of two distinct Gospels; one for Jew which entails works mingled with faith and the other for gentiles without works:

Could a Jew be saved upon the preaching of Paul? Either orthodox or secular Jew?

Could a gentile be saved upon the preaching of Peter?

If yes to both, wouldn't it make much more sense to realize that this is simply wording for understanding to the two groups but the same faith producing works Gospel?

BTW, you are stretching to breakage on the statement I bolded in your post above. All Scripture is given by direct inspiration of God, OLD and NEW Testaments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
14 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:25-27

Jewish Paul told the Colossians he was made a minister, not the only minister. Again Jewish Paul told the Colossians the mystery is now revealed to his saints. He never said saint meaning only himself.  

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he [Jesus] [Holy Spirit] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 3:2-6

 

 

1 hour ago, Ronda said:

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

Galatians 1:16-17

To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Galatians 1:18 ¶ Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

You will notice Paul never said he went up to heaven and had private lessons with Jesus, and Paul never said Jesus descended from Heaven and gave him private lessons. Was Jesus in Arabia, or was Jesus seated at the right hand of God the Father? Did Jesus return on the clouds and every eye see Jesus, so Jesus could teach Paul?

 

Matthew 26:26-28 ¶ And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This is my blood which is shed for a kingdom or remission of sins?

Hebrews 9:11-12 ¶ But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Glory be to Jesus for going to the cross to die for Jewish peoples sins and Gentile peoples sins and my sins. Thanks be to Jesus for having mercy on this hillbilly wretch. I get to live with Jesus forever and ever!!! If Jesus had failed his mission or if people had prevented Jesus from accomplishing his mission I would be on my way to hell. There would be no remission of sins.

The kingdom teaching removes focus from salvation. Hide the cross, expose the kingdom. Keep people in their sins.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

On 2/19/2016 at 8:52 PM, MountainChristian said:

What was Jesus' Mission?

 

"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” - Mark 2:17

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Similar Content

    • By Roselove
      No matter how much of the Bible I read, how many sermons I listen to, or how much I pray, I cannot repent. 
      I cannot truly have hatred of sin. My motivation is to not go to hell and when I feel at all secure that I’m going to Heaven, I immediately don’t care about if I’m sinning or not. 
      I cannot feel bad that sin hurts God. I only care about myself. I’ve felt convicted for years that I’m unsaved for this reason. 
      I don’t know what to do. I’m scared and running out of hope. I’m worried I’m to hard spiritually to repent. 
      HOW do I settle this?? 
    • By Roselove
      I sometimes can’t quite grasp the difference between these two. 
      Jesus says to come unto Him for salvation, but He also says that if someone comes after Him, they must forsake all and pick up their cross. 
      I know it’s not a physical seperation of the world or a promise to not sin, but I feel convicted that in order to fully put yourself on Him for salvation, you must see Him as such, to where you could happily run away from everyone/everything in your life. 
      People see God in a cruel task-master sort of way and that’s why they don’t trust God enough to fully fling themselves onto Him and off their crutches of their family/friends/whatever keeps them feeling “secure”. They don’t want to forsake all and follow Christ, completely. 
      So many say that you only admit you’re a sinner/know only Jesus’s sacrifice can save you, and be willing for Christ to change you, but it appears you have to go into salvation already with the heart of a disciple. That is most definitely what I see God saying when Jesus talks about hating our life/family/etc. 
      Fully trusting Him, would mean no doubt when you come to Him for salvation. 
      I’m a bit nervous because I still see God as too scary to judt be alone with because I know my heart isn’t totally trusting Him. I feel convicted that I haven’t totally trusted Him, alone and I don’t have total faith that everyone/everything is but loss, compared to Christ. 
      People keep saying I’m wrong, but why do I hear God saying this to me?? Why do I feel like God’s saying I’m not saved because I wasn’t in this mind-set when I came to Him for salvation?? 
      Please pray and help me understand if I’m misinterpreting something. 
      I’m scared and feel helpless. I don’t want to value anything more than, God. But, my wicked heart can’t let go of all and see Him as truly a loving, so much better than anyone/anything God because I’m scared and the Bible says that people with that heart are evil and unsaved. 
      Please be honest with me and please pray for discernment on what I need to know. 
    • By Roselove
      I sometimes can’t quite grasp the difference between these two. 
      Jesus says to come unto Him for salvation, but He also says that if someone comes after Him, they must forsake all and pick up their cross. 
      I know it’s not a physical seperation of the world or a promise to not sin, but I feel convicted that in order to fully put yourself on Him for salvation, you must see Him as such, to where you could happily run away from everyone/everything in your life. 
      People see God in a cruel task-master sort of way and that’s why they don’t trust God enough to fully fling themselves onto Him and off their crutches of their family/friends/whatever keeps them feeling “secure”. They don’t want to forsake all and follow Christ, completely. 
      So many say that you only admit you’re a sinner/know only Jesus’s sacrifice can save you, and be willing for Christ to change you, but it appears you have to go into salvation already with the heart of a disciple. That is most definitely what I see God saying when Jesus talks about hating our life/family/etc. 
      Fully trusting Him, would mean no doubt when you come to Him for salvation. 
      I’m a bit nervous because I still see God as too scary to judt be alone with because I know my heart isn’t totally trusting Him. I feel convicted that I haven’t totally trusted Him, alone and I don’t have total faith that everyone/everything is but loss, compared to Christ. 
      People keep saying I’m wrong, but why do I hear God saying this to me?? Why do I feel like God’s saying I’m not saved because I wasn’t in this mind-set when I came to Him for salvation?? 
      Please pray and help me understand if I’m misinterpreting something. 
      I’m scared and feel helpless. I don’t want to value anything more than, God. But, my wicked heart can’t let go of all and see Him as truly a loving, so much better than anyone/anything God because I’m scared and the Bible says that people with that heart are evil and unsaved. 
      Please be honest with me and please pray for discernment on what I need to know. 
    • By Roselove
      I know someone that I suspect is probably not saved. He has caused me some emotional issues, he’s kind of manipulative and erratic I guess, but I won’t get into much of that. 
      He told me of how he tried to kill Himself a few years ago and just a bunch of other strange stuff. 
      I’m very concerned for this guy. From what I’ve seen on his posts years ago on Facebook, he was raised Catholic. So I assume that he might have a skewed idea of Christianity, if in fact he even considers himself one (I don’t know). 
      I would love for someone to talk to him. He lives across the country from me and I know that if someone I know locally, adds him/messages him, he would know that I was the one who got them to speak with him. There’s some reasons that I feel that would cause an issue. 
      Is there anyone that doesn’t live in Texas, that could maybe talk to him? If so, please message me on here and I will give you his Facebook info. Knowing his personality, I’m pretty sure he’d add anyone. 
    • By MrsJ88
      Hi there. I'm brand new to this wonderful page. I would like to ask for God's will to be done in this custody case. My daughter is in that delicate stage, wanting to be saved but still a little bit unclear about what it truly means. Her father is atheist, and filling her with the nonsense that he believes. He is also in the process of trying to break up my marriage and the family we have. He wants to take my daughter and have her full time. This would be detrimental to her. Both mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Please, if you would pray that he see God, and that he realizes how desperately he needs God, and the salvation he offers. Also, please let me know what I can pray for, for you. Thank you! God Bless!
      Melissa.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 11 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
×
×
  • Create New...