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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Why Did Paul Say to Follow Him?


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Much has been said lately...well...let me say it this way instead...it has been said often lately, that we should follow only Paul...that only his epistles are for today's church. Here are the single-verse proof texts used...

1 Corinthians 4:16
Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Philippians 3:17
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

So...now I ask the following question.

According ONLY to the contexts of each of the above single proof-verses and according ONLY to preceding and/or succeeding verses (which gives the context), why did Paul say this?

In other words, why did Paul say what he said where he said it?

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3 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

I don't know that we have to go outside of the three verses, and one in particular. "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."  Paul preached the same gospel of Jesus Christ as any disciples did. He was commissioned by the Lord Jesus as an Apostle of the Lamb, (unlike Matthias, who was appointed by the other Apostles and drawing of lot), and as such, carried an authority the same as the other Apostles. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, just as Peter was the Apostle to the Jews, (though Peter first preached to the Gentiles, in fulfillment of Matt 16:19, and Paul certainly preached to the Jews).

But also, he only expected anyone to follow him as he followed Jesus, so Jesus was the actual authority. The Corinthian church, addressed here, we know had issues with authority-they were called carnal and contentious because they wanted to be known by the name of men, (I am of Paul, I of Cephas, etc), so while they WERE to follow Paul, it was not for Paul's sake, but for the Lord's, in recognition of the authority He gave Paul, and as Paul was faithful to Christ.

It is the same way we would follow any pastor today-only as far as they are following Jesus Christ.  

I absolutely agree with you; however, from what I've gathered from here and elsewhere...the answer as to why Paul said to follow him is...because he's the apostle to the Gentiles.

My point in asking why Paul said to follow him was to hopefully encourage people to take the time to actually read why he said it in each individual case. Too often we read along in God's word, and we lose focus, don't pay attention, or skim through until we get to what I refer to as a "knockout verse"...a verse that is used alone to prove a point, doctrine, or personal preference...a verse that "knocks out" everything around it.

As an interesting side-note...in those 3 verses that are used to prove we are to follow Paul's teachings alone, only the first one excludes everyone but Paul. The second one includes the Lord, and the third one includes "us". 

As an interesting side-side-note...there are several other verses where Paul says to follow "us". 

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1 hour ago, Critical Mass said:

I don't know anyone who says only Paul's epistles are for the church and nothing else. Not even your most hardcore hypers says that.

 

Actually, I have known hyper dispensationalists who believe just that. They see Jesus as a dispensation, then Peter and the Jewish believers were a dispensation, but only to Israel, (and that they preached a gospel of faith + works), and then Paul is the dispensation for believers. They seem to miss that Paul preached quite a bit to Jews, and that Peter opened to door initially to the Gentiles. Also, Paul and Peter both claimed to be preaching the same gospel, and Peter says in Acts 15, "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."  He didn't see a different gospel.  So yeah, there are those out there who are that hardcore-hyper. 

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Indeed there are actually a number of folks out there who proclaim only the writings of Paul are for Christians today. Some go so far as to say we shouldn't even read most other books of the Bible.

The teaching that Paul's Gospel is any different than the one true Gospel and his books are to be set apart in some manner for our special attention, whether in a soft or hardcore manner is unscriptural dangerous false teaching that shouldn't be tolerated.

Along with these are those who call themselves "red letter Christians", with some going to the point of disregarding most everything in the Bible except what has been printed in red in their Bible.

Dangerous teachings that have no basis in truth and should be separated from.

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6 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Actually, I have known hyper dispensationalists who believe just that. They see Jesus as a dispensation, then Peter and the Jewish believers were a dispensation, but only to Israel, (and that they preached a gospel of faith + works), and then Paul is the dispensation for believers. They seem to miss that Paul preached quite a bit to Jews, and that Peter opened to door initially to the Gentiles. Also, Paul and Peter both claimed to be preaching the same gospel, and Peter says in Acts 15, "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."  He didn't see a different gospel.  So yeah, there are those out there who are that hardcore-hyper. 

Yes, but they still don't teach that only parts of the bible are for Christians ("all scriptures are profitable") while others are not. At least none that I ever read. They may say that certain parts (like Paul's epistles) only apply doctrinally to Christians but never that you toss out everything else. I can go into Exodus and find verses about the boards and silver knobs of the tabernacle and find some kind of spiritual application for Christians but I'm not teaching it as church age doctrine. This is what people are not getting here; there is a threefold interpretation of the bible: historical, doctrinal and spiritual. Paul's epistles apply exclusively to the church. It is church age doctrine from the apostle to the Gentiles. The gospels, Acts and the Jewish epistles have plenty of church age doctrine because of their placement after the cross but they are not exclusive for the church. There is some doctrine in those books that applies only to Israel. 

Also, it's clear from Acts 2:38 that Peter was preaching something different initially. Do you preach that as the gospel? Do you know anyone other than maybe a Church of Christ preacher that preaches it that way? And I mean the way it says in the KJV not the way it may say after tearing it apart with the "original language" like John R. Rice did. I don't know anyone who preaches, "Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins" and, oh yeah, you will "receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" afterwords. 

5 hours ago, John81 said:

 

Dangerous teachings that have no basis in truth and should be separated from.

You mean like the teachings that Invicta and Covenantor have been spewing out for years in this forum?

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5 hours ago, Critical Mass said:

You mean like the teachings that Invicta and Covenantor have been spewing out for years in this forum?

Take note that Covenanter was banned from this site yet in all his views which were deemed unacceptable he was clear there was only one means of salvation, just as Scripture says. False teaching on salvation is far more dangerous than various views regarding the end times.

Peter, Paul, James, John, all the other Apostles and Jesus all taught one and the same Gospel, the only means of salvation for anyone ever.

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When you accepted Christ (by grace through faith in Jesus Christ) you were then sealed with the Holy Spirit. The tribulation believer's will not have that same indwelling of the Holy Spirit (or do you believe they will?). This is part of your salvation, is it not? The only thing you "did" to receive the Holy Spirit was to accept/believe upon Christ. I believe it happens the very moment we believe and accept Christ.  So this "part" of salvation will not occur for those saved during the time of Jacob's trouble. Yet somehow, they are saved the exact same way? How can that be?

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22 hours ago, Oὐ Νικολαΐτης said:

why did Paul say this?

Because the Corinthian church was being lead astray by ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing!  "Don't listen to those wolves, follow me!"  Or maybe Ruckman told him to write it?  :shootme:

Edited by swathdiver
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the things that I [Paul] write unto you are the commandments of the Lord  1 Corinth 14:37b

As also in all his [Pauls] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,

which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I [Paul] have laid the foundation    1 Cor 3:10a
 
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. (not from any man... including "the twelve")
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the [direct] revelation of Jesus Christ.  Gal 1:11-12
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Paul apparently approved of the other apostles' gospel preaching...

1 Corinthians 15:9-11

9  For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10  But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11  Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

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A better question might be: are there any epistles that are written to (set aside for) a "future" group of disciples that will have to endure the Tribulation (following the Rapture)?

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Yea, but, but, but:  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

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3 hours ago, beameup said:

A better question might be: are there any epistles that are written to (set aside for) a "future" group of disciples that will have to endure the Tribulation (following the Rapture)?

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Yea, but, but, but:  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 The above verse quoted by beameup, James 2:24, is miss-used and taken out of context and has a faulty interpretation of salvation in the Tribulation Period.

Why not quote James 2:18, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew me my faith by my works."

Why not quote James 2:22, "Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was made perfect?

If so, and a "future" group of disciples had to endure to the end of the Tribulation (following the Rapture), to be eternally saved, then the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for them and the "future group of disciples" could "boast" in heaven they were made righteous by their own merit or works and God is in 'debt' to them and would have to give them eternal salvation. And, these 'future groups of disciples could 'glory' in their own works for salvation.

The teaching that a 'future group of disciples who would have to endure to the end of the Tribulation' is heresy and contrary to the Old Testament and New Testament doctrine of justification by grace through faith. I would suggest to our brethren who believe in such a teaching to re-study the doctrine of justifcation by grace through faith  in the book of Romans. The doctrine of justification, as revealed in Romans, by faith is the only means of eternal justification for anybody, in any age, and in any country: this includes the Jewish people in the Tribulation Period. 

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God." Romans 4:1 and 2

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Romans 4:4

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. by what law? of works? Nay: but of the law of faith." Romans 3:27

 

 

Edited by Alan
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Most "assume" that after the Rapture that the world will immediately go into the Tribulation.  hmmmmmmm

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.  Acts 2:38

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest [wrestle], as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16  File under: "Wrestling with Paul's Epistles"
 
Edited by beameup
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2 hours ago, Alan said:

 The above verse quoted by beameup, James 2:24, is miss-used and taken out of context and has a faulty interpretation of salvation in the Tribulation Period.

Why not quote James 2:18, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew me my faith by my works."

Why not quote James 2:22, "Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was made perfect?

If so, and a "future" group of disciples had to endure to the end of the Tribulation (following the Rapture), to be eternally saved, then the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for them and the "future group of disciples" could "boast" in heaven they were made righteous by their own merit or works and God is in 'debt' to them and would have to give them eternal salvation. And, these 'future groups of disciples could 'glory' in their own works for salvation.

The teaching that a 'future group of disciples who would have to endure to the end of the Tribulation' is heresy and contrary to the Old Testament and New Testament doctrine of justification by grace through faith. I would suggest to our brethren who believe in such a teaching to re-study the doctrine of justifcation by grace through faith  in the book of Romans. The doctrine of justification, as revealed in Romans, by faith is the only means of eternal justification for anybody, in any age, and in any country: this includes the Jewish people in the Tribulation Period. 

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God." Romans 4:1 and 2

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Romans 4:4

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. by what law? of works? Nay: but of the law of faith." Romans 3:27

 

 

I have no problem discerning the obvious contradictions and the reason that many such "contradictions" exist.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

There are some who confuse the Tribulation and Great Tribulation which also causes problems.

I'm curious why it seems some get more riled up over differing views of the end times than they do the constant promotion of false gospels. In Scripture we see a great emphasis upon exposing false gospels, naming those who promote false gospels and clear separations being made from the promoters of false gospels.

If people get salvation wrong then hell awaits them along with all those they lead astray.

Even if a person says they believe in a pre-trib rapture yet if they don't believe the one and only means of salvation for all time they are lost and leading others away from Christ by their false gospels.

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36 minutes ago, John81 said:

There are some who confuse the Tribulation and Great Tribulation which also causes problems.

I'm curious why it seems some get more riled up over differing views of the end times than they do the constant promotion of false gospels. In Scripture we see a great emphasis upon exposing false gospels, naming those who promote false gospels and clear separations being made from the promoters of false gospels.

If people get salvation wrong then hell awaits them along with all those they lead astray.

Even if a person says they believe in a pre-trib rapture yet if they don't believe the one and only means of salvation for all time they are lost and leading others away from Christ by their false gospels.

Gotta say, John, the last few weeks on here have felt like an eye-opener. Though the eschatology wars have been difficult to watch, there have always been eschatology debates/discussions on OB. But when it came to soteriology, I had always throught that folk on here--and IFBs in general--were united in believing that salvation is and always has been by grace through faith alone.

Multiple threads and posts proclaiming works salvation--be it for times past or times future--with relative silence from forum regulars who have traditionally been quick and rigorous in defending OB's stance on free will and end times doctrines is something I never expected to see. But it might just be because we are down to about a dozen regular posters.

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Well, folks have their proof verses, and no amount of context or comparing scripture with scripture can be used to show them their mistakes. Their context is their single verses (or in many cases, only one section of a single verse even when the verse explains and nullifies their belief). Their comparing of scripture with scripture only extends to comparing their single proof verses with their other single proof verses. 

The pinnacle of this promotion of different salvation methods was recently reached (in my opinion) when an agnostic member here also began promoting such.

With that said, I leave this portion of scripture for everyone. Please apply this to your daily walk with Christ...after all, it was written by Paul. Oh, and it promotes yet another salvation method.

Colossians 2:21-22b

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22  Which all are to perish with the using;)

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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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