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beameup

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
6 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Acts 1:4.  And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

The promise of the Father.  What was that? Remember that that Paul said Rom 15:8  Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

So there you have it . Now back to acts.

Thanks.

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.  Romans 15:16
And Paul was a minister to the uncircumcision
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Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began  Romans 16:25
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  Ephesians 3:3-5
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19 hours ago, swathdiver said:

For a moment I thought I was reading an episode of the twilight zone and then realized it was the protestants at online baptist!  

Stick to the baby bottle, some meat is being served up right now.

1 hour ago, Invicta said:

x

No where near as cultish as your teaching of two gospels.

Five gospels actually. 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Ahh yes, let's not forget to tell us how smart you folks are and how stupid we are:

“Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,” - Romans 1:22

"He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed." - Proverbs 13:20

"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise." 1 Corinthians 3:18

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

There is, was and always will be one Gospel of salvation for anyone and everyone. All who were saved, are saved, will be saved enjoy salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. That is Bible truth and Scripture says anyone presenting any other "gospel" is presenting a false gospel no one should have anything to do with.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Galatians 1:6-9 -- "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

(Note: I wonder -- Is it unkind and unloving to indicate publicly that some individuals should be viewed as accursed?)

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17 hours ago, beameup said:

Thanks.

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.  Romans 15:16
And Paul was a minister to the uncircumcision

So?

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11 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

(Note: I wonder -- Is it unkind and unloving to indicate publicly that some individuals should be viewed as accursed?)

Not at all Pastor!  We're to mark them, reprove them, rebuke them and avoid them.  We do this to protect ourselves and our loved ones and our local church.

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On 08/02/2016 at 2:16 AM, beameup said:

Peter is identified as the apostle to the circumcision [Gal 2:7].  He wrote to his brethren.  In this case, Peter is reminded of the promise of God to Israel: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exodus 19:6  Had Israel repented as a Nation, this would have literally been fulfilled at that time upon Messiah's return.

"Assuming" that there is only one group of "elect" and that that is the Body of Christ, and that the entire N.T. is addressed only to "the church" is an error that dates back to the 4th Century Catholic Church.  God has a separate "agenda" for Israel and it will come to pass when God sets up his earthly Kingdom.

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me [Paul], as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;  Galatians 2:7
1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers [parepidēmos] scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
parepidēmos - one who comes from a foreign country into a city or land to reside there by the side of the natives - these are the diaspora of Jews he is writing to.

 

 

Peter was also the first to preach the gospel to gentiles. His ministry was mainly to the circumcision but he also preached to gentiles.  Paul also preached to the Jews.  He seemed to often head first to the synagogue when he entered a city.   Neither of their ministries were exclusive.

The London City Mission has a missionary to Railwaymen, another to Firemen, and the Police and other trades, but their ministry is not exclusive, they preach to whoever will hear.

You have repeatedly said that the following verses apply only to the Jews. 

Luke 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
 

Those that are far off are us, and you will see the message is to 3  even as many as the Lord our God shall call.so the messaage is to those who God will call, not to the Jews only.

Your teaching is a dangerous error, cutting much of the word of God from needy sinners.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Invicta said:

Peter was also the first to preach the gospel to gentiles. His ministry was mainly to the circumcision but he also preached to gentiles.  Paul also preached to the Jews.  He seemed to often head first to the synagogue when he entered a city.   Neither of their ministries were exclusive.

The London City Mission has a missionary to Railwaymen, another to Firemen, and the Police and other trades, but their ministry is not exclusive, they preach to whoever will hear.

You have repeatedly said that the following verses apply only to the Jews. 

Luke 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
 

Those that are far off are us, and you will see the message is to 3  even as many as the Lord our God shall call.so the messaage is to those who God will call, not to the Jews only.

Your teaching is a dangerous error, cutting much of the word of God from needy sinners.

 

 

 You are mischaracterizing.  The Kingdom was promised to Israel.  The Gospel of Grace has no "message" of a Kingdom on earth, in order to be saved. Ephesians 2:8-9, 1 Cor 15

The false teaching is telling someone that they are "Spiritual Israel" and that God's Kingdom is already on the earth, and Jesus is "ruling from heaven".

Of course Paul went to the synagogue, because that was the ekklesia (assembly, often translated "church"), because there was no official "meeting place" for Gentiles (except the pagan temples).  Eventually, "house churches" were established, but records exist that show that many synagogues were "mixed" (ie: included some Yeshua believers) as late as the 3rd century.

Again, it is wrong to present the Gospel to sinners by informing them that they must believe in and will belong to a Kingdom on the earth.  That is why the "Lord's Prayer" is unnecessary, as it was a message that was presented to Israel (see Mat 6, Luke 11).  The "destiny" of the Body of Christ is HEAVEN.  The "Earthly Kingdom" (still) belongs to Israel. (see Isa 60, 61, 62 etc.)

Apparently, some are essentially calling Paul a LIAR, because he tells us that the Gospel revealed to him was revealed directly to him by Jesus and that hitherto, it had been a mystery that was unknown. Romans 16:25, Col 1:26  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.  Galatians 1:11-12

BTW, "those that are afar off" is a reference to the Jewish diaspora.  Peter's message was directed at Jews and concerned the Kingdom.

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω

 
 
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Well now, I have a question for those who believe in more than one gospel (that is -- the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace):

Did our Lord Jesus Christ Himself preach and teach a different gospel than the apostle Paul preached and taught?

(Note: Since my postings have been "blocked" by certain individuals, I would request that one of the members who has not been "blocked" might simply repeat my question.)

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Oh dear my last post seems to have disappeared just as I clicked "Submit Reply"

14 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Well now, I have a question for those who believe in more than one gospel (that is -- the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace):

Did our Lord Jesus Christ Himself preach and teach a different gospel than the apostle Paul preached and taught?

No I don't but I am answering anyway if that is OK

 

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Just now, Invicta said:

Oh dear my last post seems to have disappeared just as I clicked "Submit Reply"

Yeah, that has happened to me a few times recently also.  It is quite frustrating when my posting was fairly long.  I am trying to remember to save it all before posting, just in case.

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Mark 1:1 ¶  The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2  As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3  The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4  John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark says that John the Baptist, the last OT prophet  began the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

This was the very "beginning," the very first event of that long expected era. "THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD." But John's ministry was of short duration; for the enmity of the Jews was speedily aroused, because of the contradiction between his preaching and their expectations; and he was cast into prison. And then happened another event of transcendent interest; for the public ministry of Christ Himself (whose "way" John had been sent to "prepare") forthwith began. For it is written:

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel" (vv. 14, 15).

These words make it evident that "the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God," and "the gospel of the Kingdom of God" are one and the same. Moreover, the words, "The time is fulfilled" manifestly point to something of exceptional importance whereof promises had been given by the prophets. They refer, of course, to that promised era of victory over sin, that era of the bruising of the serpent's head, of the salvation of God for all men through the coming of the promised Deliverer, the era of the everlasting covenant and the sure mercies of David; in a word, they referred to the appointed time for the fulfilment of all the glorious things that God had spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. "The time" for the thing for which all believing hearts had looked and longed, was "fulfilled." So said Christ; and He also exhorted those who heard the announcement, to repent, and believethe gospel." Note that the proclamation that the time was fulfilled He calls "the gospel."   

Now if the Kingdom was at hand in the time of John the Baptist and Jesus, how can it be several millennia off? 

 

 

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John 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 

John 18:36  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1Corr 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

Col 4:11  And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellow workers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.
Col 1:13  Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1Th 2:12  That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you* unto his kingdom and glory.
Re 1:9  I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

* a gentile

 


 

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13 hours ago, Invicta said:

 

Now if the Kingdom was at hand in the time of John the Baptist and Jesus, how can it be several millennia off? 

 

 

That is precisely the question that was posed at the formation of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century.  Their answer was that the "Kingdom of God" was the Catholic Church and that Jesus was "ruling from heaven".  This is the "logic" or "rationale" of Replacement Theology.  You simply use "human logic" to conclude that God has "replaced" Israel (and all the O.T. prophecies of the Kingdom) with "the Church".... problem solved.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  2 Peter 3:8

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω

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1 hour ago, beameup said:

That is precisely the question that was posed at the formation of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century.  Their answer was that the "Kingdom of God" was the Catholic Church and that Jesus was "ruling from heaven".  This is the "logic" or "rationale" of Replacement Theology.  You simply use "human logic" to conclude that God has "replaced" Israel (and all the O.T. prophecies of the Kingdom) with "the Church".... problem solved.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  2 Peter 3:8

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω

That is not an answer.  Whenever you can't answer a question, you blame it on the Catholic Church,  so I will ask the question again.

1 hour ago, beameup said:

Now if the Kingdom was at hand in the time of John the Baptist and Jesus, how can it be several millennia off? 

I will also ask a  more pertinent question

Mark 9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Can you explain that verse without inferring that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about.?

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

That is not an answer.  Whenever you can't answer a question, you blame it on the Catholic Church,  so I will ask the question again.

I will also ask a  more pertinent question

Mark 9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Can you explain that verse without inferring that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about.?

Real simple, and most here could easily answer that I'm sure.  However, if you are coming from a (semi) "replacement" position, no answer would satisfy you.  Let's just say that there were 3 disciples that "witnessed" the Glorified Christ before his crucifixion... I'll leave it to you to find the reference.

BTW, I would venture to say that the "replacement" position is by far the most dominant position in Christendom... yes, even among many "Baptists".  I believe that this is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist forum, not an Independent Reformed Baptist or an Independent Covenant Baptist forum.

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω                                                                                                                                                                     Galatians 5:9

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The only answers which will satisfy me is one that accords with scripture and yours don't.

Before Pentecost the disciples preached the kingdom was at hand, after that they taught its reality. 


Ac 19:8  And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Ac 20:25  And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Ac 28:23  And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Ac 28:31  Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Ro 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
1Co 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Ga 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Col 4:11  And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.
2Th 1:5  Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Jas 2:5  Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
2Pe 1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Re 1:9  I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
2 hours ago, Invicta said:

The only answers which will satisfy me is one that accords with scripture and yours don't.

Before Pentecost the disciples preached the kingdom was at hand, after that they taught its reality. 
 

The concept of "replacement" has it's origins in the 4th Century Catholic Church.  As well, the doctrines of "symbolization" and "allegoricalization," of Scripture were developed, along with "preterism"... all 1,700 year old Catholic "doctrines".  The doctrine of the purely "spiritualization" of the "kingdom", rather than taking God's Word LITERALLY, is the result.  The majority of Christendom adopts these "doctrines", even many "Baptists".

I ask Catholics why should Jesus ever even return to the earth, since the "kingdom" is "spiritual" and "heavenly" rather than a literal earthly Kingdom ruled by Jews?  Perhaps you don't differentiate between the promises made to Israel and those Pauline doctrines concerning the Body of Christ?

 
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.  Romans 11:25-27
 δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω                   If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
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