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Well now, I have a question for those who believe in more than one gospel (that is -- the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace):

Did our Lord Jesus Christ Himself preach and teach a different gospel than the apostle Paul preached and taught?

(Note: Since my postings have been "blocked" by certain individuals, I would request that one of the members who has not been "blocked" might simply repeat my question.)

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Oh dear my last post seems to have disappeared just as I clicked "Submit Reply"

14 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Well now, I have a question for those who believe in more than one gospel (that is -- the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace):

Did our Lord Jesus Christ Himself preach and teach a different gospel than the apostle Paul preached and taught?

No I don't but I am answering anyway if that is OK

 

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Just now, Invicta said:

Oh dear my last post seems to have disappeared just as I clicked "Submit Reply"

Yeah, that has happened to me a few times recently also.  It is quite frustrating when my posting was fairly long.  I am trying to remember to save it all before posting, just in case.

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Mark 1:1 ¶  The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2  As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3  The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4  John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark says that John the Baptist, the last OT prophet  began the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

This was the very "beginning," the very first event of that long expected era. "THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD." But John's ministry was of short duration; for the enmity of the Jews was speedily aroused, because of the contradiction between his preaching and their expectations; and he was cast into prison. And then happened another event of transcendent interest; for the public ministry of Christ Himself (whose "way" John had been sent to "prepare") forthwith began. For it is written:

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel" (vv. 14, 15).

These words make it evident that "the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God," and "the gospel of the Kingdom of God" are one and the same. Moreover, the words, "The time is fulfilled" manifestly point to something of exceptional importance whereof promises had been given by the prophets. They refer, of course, to that promised era of victory over sin, that era of the bruising of the serpent's head, of the salvation of God for all men through the coming of the promised Deliverer, the era of the everlasting covenant and the sure mercies of David; in a word, they referred to the appointed time for the fulfilment of all the glorious things that God had spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. "The time" for the thing for which all believing hearts had looked and longed, was "fulfilled." So said Christ; and He also exhorted those who heard the announcement, to repent, and believethe gospel." Note that the proclamation that the time was fulfilled He calls "the gospel."   

Now if the Kingdom was at hand in the time of John the Baptist and Jesus, how can it be several millennia off? 

 

 

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John 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 

John 18:36  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1Corr 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

Col 4:11  And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellow workers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.
Col 1:13  Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1Th 2:12  That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you* unto his kingdom and glory.
Re 1:9  I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

* a gentile

 


 

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13 hours ago, Invicta said:

 

Now if the Kingdom was at hand in the time of John the Baptist and Jesus, how can it be several millennia off? 

 

 

That is precisely the question that was posed at the formation of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century.  Their answer was that the "Kingdom of God" was the Catholic Church and that Jesus was "ruling from heaven".  This is the "logic" or "rationale" of Replacement Theology.  You simply use "human logic" to conclude that God has "replaced" Israel (and all the O.T. prophecies of the Kingdom) with "the Church".... problem solved.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  2 Peter 3:8

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω

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1 hour ago, beameup said:

That is precisely the question that was posed at the formation of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century.  Their answer was that the "Kingdom of God" was the Catholic Church and that Jesus was "ruling from heaven".  This is the "logic" or "rationale" of Replacement Theology.  You simply use "human logic" to conclude that God has "replaced" Israel (and all the O.T. prophecies of the Kingdom) with "the Church".... problem solved.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  2 Peter 3:8

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω

That is not an answer.  Whenever you can't answer a question, you blame it on the Catholic Church,  so I will ask the question again.

1 hour ago, beameup said:

Now if the Kingdom was at hand in the time of John the Baptist and Jesus, how can it be several millennia off? 

I will also ask a  more pertinent question

Mark 9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Can you explain that verse without inferring that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about.?

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

That is not an answer.  Whenever you can't answer a question, you blame it on the Catholic Church,  so I will ask the question again.

I will also ask a  more pertinent question

Mark 9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Can you explain that verse without inferring that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about.?

Real simple, and most here could easily answer that I'm sure.  However, if you are coming from a (semi) "replacement" position, no answer would satisfy you.  Let's just say that there were 3 disciples that "witnessed" the Glorified Christ before his crucifixion... I'll leave it to you to find the reference.

BTW, I would venture to say that the "replacement" position is by far the most dominant position in Christendom... yes, even among many "Baptists".  I believe that this is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist forum, not an Independent Reformed Baptist or an Independent Covenant Baptist forum.

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω                                                                                                                                                                     Galatians 5:9

Edited by beameup
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The only answers which will satisfy me is one that accords with scripture and yours don't.

Before Pentecost the disciples preached the kingdom was at hand, after that they taught its reality. 


Ac 19:8  And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Ac 20:25  And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Ac 28:23  And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Ac 28:31  Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Ro 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
1Co 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Ga 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Col 4:11  And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.
2Th 1:5  Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Jas 2:5  Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
2Pe 1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Re 1:9  I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

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2 hours ago, Invicta said:

The only answers which will satisfy me is one that accords with scripture and yours don't.

Before Pentecost the disciples preached the kingdom was at hand, after that they taught its reality. 
 

The concept of "replacement" has it's origins in the 4th Century Catholic Church.  As well, the doctrines of "symbolization" and "allegoricalization," of Scripture were developed, along with "preterism"... all 1,700 year old Catholic "doctrines".  The doctrine of the purely "spiritualization" of the "kingdom", rather than taking God's Word LITERALLY, is the result.  The majority of Christendom adopts these "doctrines", even many "Baptists".

I ask Catholics why should Jesus ever even return to the earth, since the "kingdom" is "spiritual" and "heavenly" rather than a literal earthly Kingdom ruled by Jews?  Perhaps you don't differentiate between the promises made to Israel and those Pauline doctrines concerning the Body of Christ?

 
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.  Romans 11:25-27
 δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω                   If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Edited by beameup
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Why continue to bring up Catholics when no one here is Catholic and whether the Catholics happen to say something right or wrong, no one here seeks out Catholic teaching?

Scripture was given to address the matter and the only possible viable rebuttal (if a person has one) must come from Scripture.

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Good point John.  It is not even accurate.  Literalism is actually the Catholic doctrine invented by the Jesuits in the latter 14th and early 15th,  If Chester new anytihing about church history he would know that, but is no good arguing history with someone whose mind is made up whatever the evidence to the contrary

.

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