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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Salvation Confusion


Matthew24

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

A saved person can commit any sin an unsaved person can commit. A saved person can backslide and get caught up in some false religion just the same as a lost person can get caught up in such. The difference is, for the saved person the Holy Ghost will be working from within to restore them, turning them from error back to truth.

It shouldn't be, but especially here in America this isn't all that uncommon.

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Many people in the fundamentalist easy believism camp who are followers of cult leaders Jack Hyles and Steve Anderson have an agenda and don't like to be told that the so called "Professions" they have had are false. The fact is, they have led millions to hell, and I have a right to be righteously angry about that.

I would say if the are easy believists they are not fundamentalists.

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A biblical definition of 'repent'

Genesis 6:5  And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 ¶  And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

 

 

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Is it hard to believe in Jesus? 

Wasnt for the publican who 'smote his chest and said God have mercy on me a sinner'

He was convicted and responded by calling for mercy.

This is easy.

What is hard about it?

If the consequence of not believing till you die is hell, why would Jesus make it not easy to believe?

Yes there are false professions, but again dont confuse the root of believing, faith with the fruit of salvation  

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Following the biblical plan of salvation is indeed easy. Those who use the term "easy believism" are referring to the practice of presenting a watered down message and then prodding or pushing someone to repeat a "sinners prayer" and telling them that's all they have to do to be sure of heaven. In these cases there is typically no true, biblical understanding of sin, salvation, Christ or the biblical Gospel by those who repeat the "sinners prayer" (which is so often held forth more as a magic incantation than anything real).

Praise God true, biblical salvation is easy. That's something I try to point out to those who attack Christianity claiming God wouldn't make it so hard to get to Him as Christianity does. The fact is, God made it very easy, with one Way to be right with Him. The idea that multiple ways to God and each person must find the one that's right for them is somehow easier is ridiculous.

The Gospel is simple. Any difficulty is within us as we consider whether to follow the leading of the Spirit or our own flesh.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

A saved person can commit any sin an unsaved person can commit. A saved person can backslide and get caught up in some false religion just the same as a lost person can get caught up in such. The difference is, for the saved person the Holy Ghost will be working from within to restore them, turning them from error back to truth.

It shouldn't be, but especially here in America this isn't all that uncommon.

 

Well the emerging church movement and rick warren types would certainly agree but this cannot be found in the Bible. The Bible describes it as quite impossible for a born again Christian to blaspheme the Spirit. What you are describing here would be crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh, and putting Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6 is no mystery and very clear on this subject.

This kind of thinking is certainly in agreement with false professions though. Not trying to one up anyone but we need to get busy with witnessing to people who got "saved" without any knowledge of Hell, Judgement or Condemnation.

About the only 2 reasonable qualifiers we have to know who is a brother or sister in Christ is this and professing Him before men with Baptism. Why should we care you ask? So next time someone stops you while witnessing and says they are already born again, we will ask the right questions to make sure before we move on.

People like this are all over the place thanks to satan and his emerging church which he started as an answer to the fundamental movement years ago.

Just as he did with the catholic church in the 3rd century as an answer to the spread of the real Gospel by real Christians. It is a phony imitation of Bible Christianity.

Anyone who was saved 20-30 years ago used to know this stuff, we have just forgotten it. Oh and BTW: the reason we have forgotten is because we are lured away from the Word and into reading and considering every watered down idea by these charlatans.

We do these false professors no justice by assuring them they are saved simply because they said the repeat after me prayers. If there was no change then there was no regeneration of the Spirit. Read the parable of the sower for clues into this.

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A person can only blaspheme the Holy Spirit by refusing to be born again in Christ. A saved person cannot do that since they are already born again.

Scripture does not say there are certain sins a saved person can never commit. There are those who believe once saved a Christian can't commit sin. Some actually believe they are living in perfect holiness, others simply call "little sins" mistakes or some other trivial word rather than acknowledge their sins for what they are. This isn't biblical. What is biblical is saved people sin, as First John is very clear about.

Just because a person is saved doesn't mean they are immediately mature in the faith and can't be led astray, make mistakes or backslide into religious folly.

One thing that would greatly help prevent such would be if we (Christians) would actually disciple other Christians, befriend Christians, help Christians. Instead, even in many of the "better" churches, Christians tend to form cliques which they are reluctant to let others into or they have their "church friends" while at church and worldly friends the rest of the time.

This leaves us with many born again Christians weak in the faith, slow to mature, left in infancy, or even pushed away.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

A person can only blaspheme the Holy Spirit by refusing to be born again in Christ. A saved person cannot do that since they are already born again.

Scripture does not say there are certain sins a saved person can never commit. There are those who believe once saved a Christian can't commit sin. Some actually believe they are living in perfect holiness, others simply call "little sins" mistakes or some other trivial word rather than acknowledge their sins for what they are. This isn't biblical. What is biblical is saved people sin, as First John is very clear about.

Just because a person is saved doesn't mean they are immediately mature in the faith and can't be led astray, make mistakes or backslide into religious folly.

One thing that would greatly help prevent such would be if we (Christians) would actually disciple other Christians, befriend Christians, help Christians. Instead, even in many of the "better" churches, Christians tend to form cliques which they are reluctant to let others into or they have their "church friends" while at church and worldly friends the rest of the time.

This leaves us with many born again Christians weak in the faith, slow to mature, left in infancy, or even pushed away.

Your first line answered the issue John?

So a person hears the Gospel, is supposedly convicted by the Holy Spirit, supposedly repents from any ideas of God they had before to supposedly trust in the Living, One True God.

Later on however, repents from the Living, One True God to trust some other false god....was truly BORN AGAIN while all this occurred?

Come on John, the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (on either side)

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Your first line answered the issue John?

So a person hears the Gospel, is supposedly convicted by the Holy Spirit, supposedly repents from any ideas of God they had before to supposedly trust in the Living, One True God.

Later on however, repents from the Living, One True God to trust some other false god....was truly BORN AGAIN while all this occurred?

Come on John, the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (on either side)

What if the other false god is money, prestige, work pressures, technology, their family, their self? Are you saying that it's impossible for a saved Christian to commit the sin of idolatry?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It's not uncommon for a saved person to find themselves in very difficult times and believe God has abandoned them, or to think perhaps more is needed, and to turn to strange things to find help. That may take the form of making money their idol, astrology, horoscopes, or even thinking maybe "they" are right and all/some/most gods are one and the same and get caught up looking for a way to draw on God by pursuing some false religion ideas.

Those I've had personal experience with are always restored to a right walk with God. Their testimonies are always very similar; of having felt very confused during that time, unfocused, having felt conviction but either not recognizing it at the time or thinking it just their own worries. Yet at some point the indwelling Spirit gets through to them, they come to see the great error of their ways, they repent and restored and typically have a great hunger for the things of God and the Lord graciously has someone in or come into their lives at that point who will disciple them and set their feet firmly on the path of righteousness.

Meanwhile, the unsaved who get caught up in those things, including those who "tried" Christianity, tend to either remain caught up in those things or dive in further.

The idea a saved person can't get caught up in some false church, try some false ways, latch onto something ungodly, or such things is no different than those who claim a saved person can't commit suicide, get drunk, do drugs, carry on an affair, get divorced, or commit other sins that some claim no saved person can commit.

Every saved person matures at a different pace, a different rate than others. Some are well discipled, some are not discipled at all. Some get into the Word themselves and begin to grow, some find confusion trying that. Some are freed from some sins while others are not instantly freed from the same sins. Some get caught up in "big" sins, others never commit another "big" sin.

Being born again in Christ doesn't make anyone perfect or incapable of falling into sin, even the sin of thinking some false religion may have something right.

We should be thankful our God doesn't leave us or forsake us but rather works in our lives to free us from sinful bondage and set us aright with Him.

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Those who use the term "easy believism" are referring to the practice of presenting a watered down message and then prodding or pushing someone to repeat a "sinners prayer" and telling them that's all they have to do to be sure of heaven.

Easy believism is really thought of in 2 different ways. I've looked it up and noticed this when conversating. 1. Watered down gospel. 2. People also use it to critisize Baptist...because we don't have 7 steps of salvation like the Church of Christ "Cambellites". Another good one is "cheap grace."....as if their righteousness makes it expensive.

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I think too many christians who think they are embracing once saved always saved are actually embracing the calvinist idea that a saved person WILL do good works, will not fall away.. will continue in holiness etc..

A saved person does have the Holy Spirit inside them who will discipline them and teach them. That is true. Therefore when they do sin-- He will prompt them to remain in close relationship.. 

But that doesn't mean they WON'T sin.  Or that they won't ever try a different belief, or murder, or commit adultery etc..  it means if they do so.. the Holy Spirit will convict them and discipline them.  

Not that they wont do they sins to begin with.

There are many who believe unlike calvinism that you do call for salvation.. but then take on the teaching of perserverance of the saints from calvinism and say that evidence of salvation is a completely changed life.. from the beginning to the end.  

It is taking 'he who endureth to the end will be saved' right out of context.

 

 

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I think too many christians who think they are embracing once saved always saved are actually embracing the calvinist idea that a saved person WILL do good works, will not fall away.. will continue in holiness etc..

I know of no one who believes that., although there will be some, no doubt.  We know that some will  backslide and fall in to error, but if we confess our sins he will forgive us our sins,

A saved person does have the Holy Spirit inside them who will discipline them and teach them. That is true. Therefore when they do sin-- He will prompt them to remain in close relationship.. 

But that doesn't mean they WON'T sin.  Or that they won't ever try a different belief, or murder, or commit adultery etc..  it means if they do so.. the Holy Spirit will convict them and discipline them.  

Not that they wont do they sins to begin with.

Agreed both points

There are many who believe unlike calvinism that you do call for salvation.. but then take on the teaching of perserverance of the saints from calvinism and say that evidence of salvation is a completely changed life.. from the beginning to the end.  

I don't know what you mean

It is taking 'he who endureth to the end will be saved' right out of contexct

 

 

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
It is true that one can put all their time and effort into fleshly pursuits and still be saved but hardly the same thing that is being discussed right now. Where your treasure is (whether time, money or effort) that is where your heart is but those passages are not discussing rejecting Jesus AFTER you got saved.

Even backslidden a Christian will still know who the real God is or they never were born again to begin with. That is the point folks. Some of you folks are interjecting an apple into an orange discussion.

For some reason some don't get it but let me clarify a little: I am not talking about sin. I am talking about repentance and believing the Gospel. If actually accomplished by the Spirit, no one repents from it back to a false religion. No matter how much we want to think so because they are confused or whatever, they are not confused folks, they are lost.

Now, nothing says they cannot be saved later so I recommend you get the matter settled for sure if you are in that boat.

I have known multiple 1000s of saved people (serving and backslidden) and have never run across this kind of silly discussion before.

 

 

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I would agree with wretched.  I believe it is impossible for a saved person to totally deny God.  Jeremiah tried it, but couldn't.

Jeremiah 20:9 (KJV) 9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But [his word] was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not [stay].

How much more impossible is it for the saved, who, when disobedient, are chastened by the Lord?  How much more difficult to deny a God who promised to never leave, nor forsake him/her?  How utterly impossible, for one who has the seal of the Spirit of the living God, to walk away from God completely.

 

Edited to add:  If one is able to walk away, embracing the world and its sinful pleasures with no conviction whatsoever, that one never truly had the Spirit of God abiding in him/her to begin with.

1 John 2:19 (KJV) 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

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A person can turn to many things without denying God. People can be led astray while thinking their actions are not contrary to God. I've known of saved folks getting taken in by some aspect of the "all religions are the same/all gods are the same" stuff that goes around. Even some preachers say these things! No wonder an immature Christian can become confused and think 'the Great Spirit" was just the American Indians term for God, and get caught up in some aspect of that (which most often it's some modern concoction invented to make money rather than actual aspects of pagan American Indian religion).

As I mentioned previously, the one (huge!) advantage saved people have who get drawn into such is the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit will work on them until they eventually "awake" and see the error and they turn from that and are restored.

I still remember the confusion among many immature Christians when President Bush (yes, another "conservative" Republican who was supposed to 'save America') began declaring Christianity and Islam worship the same God and are just different paths to the same heaven. Bush, followed by Obama, went on to declare virtually all religions worship the same God, just in different ways, with all leading to the same heaven. Sad to say, even some preachers accepted this to one extent or another and further confused people. All of this added weight to the idea each person must seek out their own best way to connect with God, whether that be through adopting some aspect of what we call nature worship or calling God by another name. All wrong, of course, but it's easy to see how some get caught up in this and led astray.

Even more easy for them to go astray when many churches today have adopted the "social gospel" and similar unbiblical practices which can seem good to an immature Christian and seem to offer them a way to "make a difference for God". In such situations they often find themselves surrounded by secular Christians (not realizing the difference) but feeling a part of good, active Christians.

Sad, but thankfully everyone I know who has ever got caught up in such were brought out by the Holy Ghost working on them. Thanks be to God He never leaves us or forsakes us even if we wonder off.

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2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV) 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2 Corinthians 6:15 (KJV) 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV) 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

Sure looks like some of the Corinthians had to do some repenting, or they would not be sons and daughters.  Of interest, although they are identified as saints and brethren by the Apostle Paul, they still are not sons and daughters.  God said He would not even be a Father to them until they turned from their present walk.

 

 

That's talking to believers, SFIC, not the lost. Don't confuse sanctification with salvation.

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Wow, this thread is sure covering the territory!

Matthew24, if you have a problem with the OB statement of faith, I suggest you take it up privately with BroMatt. It is, after all, his forum and his statement of faith. The opinions of the forum members at large (including myself) have absolutely zero influence on what the OB position is.

That being said, 'OB' is not a contiguous group. We have all sorts of differences in beliefs represented here - even among fundamental, Baptist believers. For example, you have seen some in this thread say that repentance is a forsaking (physical departing from) of sin. I personally believe that such a thing would amount to a work (I think you might be saying the same thing?), and I reject that definition of repentance. Repentance is a change of mind - toward sin, righteousness, and judgement (the three things the Holy Spirit has been sent to convict the world of). To add anything else to it is a work. (And seriously, how can an unsaved person be expected to quit sinning anyways? He is a slave to it.)  We also have to be careful that we do not confuse the work of God in our lives in sanctification with the act of salvation. Salvation involves only repentance/belief. Sanctification, on the other hand, if it is to be active in our life, requires us to live by faith in obedience to Christ. Sometimes people confuse the two things and require of the unsaved person before salvation that which is really part of the process of sanctification for the believer. 

All that being said - repentance is required and is a part of the salvation process. You cannot remove it in the hopes of being simpler or preventing misunderstanding. For without a person first repenting, they will see no need for trusting Christ by faith for salvation, or they will be 'believing' the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

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Not sure it is addressing believers.  

 

If they don't turn from the company they keep, they could not be sons and daughters.  Nor would they be received by God.

 

doesn't sound like they are saved at all.  The saved are received of God.  The saved are sons and daughters.  God will not reject the saved.

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The neo evangelical influences are being thoroughly revealed in this thread. I recommend you folks burn those books and get away from their websites on the double quick.

30 years ago is when satan introduced competition among fundamentalists in the form of conversion numbers. Sadly, fundamental churches were exploding (and had been for 20 years) at the time with real conversions so satan used our fleshly need to win at all costs into the mix to stop the flood of revival; and we have been going down hill since.

This is when the partial gospel was introduced in these great Churches. It wasn't the Pastors who introduced the false, hellless gospel it was the good intentioned soulwinners who did once they realized their numbers will now count without bearing their fruit. The dilution has continued every since.

At the same time is when the neo evangelical movement got started and it was satan that invented it with the same watered down hellless gospel. "We invite you to begin your relationship with Jesus today" that is NOT the Gospel.

Fast forward to now when IFBs are so utterly confused over who is saved and who isn't that the isn't number is nonexistent basically.

We have forgotten what fruit that remains means and think anyone who says they are saved are saved. Your neo books say they are but the Bible says they are bastards and not sons. This country is running 1000:1 bastard to son ratio in my estimation thanks to satan and his hellless gospel.

Lets stop wondering if people who show zero interest in baptism, growth, warning their families of condemnation and feel absolutely no conviction over anything are saved. Witness to these folks because they never heard the real deal to begin with. These are not issues of growth, or discipleship or difference speeds and personalities, these are basic Bible doctrines. If the Spirit is present, the above things will follow and at a minimum the desire to grow will be present.

The old timers who refuse to pick up neo trash books are the only ones who still remember what the Bible says it appears.

 

 

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      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
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      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

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