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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Salvation Confusion


Matthew24

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Taken from BO 

We believe in order to truly pass from death to life a person must repent of their sins.

remission of sins by grace through faith in Gods promise and Christ's blood.

We believe good works do not and can never have any part in salvation.

So what you are saying is salvation doesn't come from doing good, but it does come from quitting bad. This is why the definition of repent is so important. This leads ppl to confusion about what salvation is. If you want to kick me off, kick me off. 

JONAH 3:10

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You know, Matt, given your comments in that other thread about salvation and these comments here now, it really does look like you're doing your uttermost to interpret folks' understanding of salvation on here as some kind of works salvation. I worry I'm overly jumpy when it comes to people trying to outline their beliefs about salvation--you seem to take it to another level.

Firstly, here's what the board's statement really says:

We believe in order to truly pass from death to life a person must repent of their sins and call upon God to receive salvation and remission of sins by grace through faith in Gods promise and Christ's blood. We believe good works do not and can never have any part in salvation...

In blue is a section you hacked out of your quote. I don't see anything in this quote that could be interpreted as man having to stop committing sins in order to be saved. Do you mean something else when you say "quitting bad"?

Secondly, if you think a statement is unclear or you question its meaning, why not begin by politely asking for an explanation, instead of telling the author what they are saying in bold font?

And lastly, why do you want to be on an web forum where you find yourself challenging the mods to throw you off? Doesn't that suggest you consider yourself to be strongly at odds with everyone here, or at least the admin? If I thought I was enemy no.1 on a forum, I'd decide whether to change my behaviour in order to stay or else leave by myself.

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Many people in the fundamentalist easy believism camp who are followers of cult leaders Jack Hyles and Steve Anderson have an agenda and don't like to be told that the so called "Professions" they have had are false. The fact is, they have led millions to hell, and I have a right to be righteously angry about that.

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I suppose you believe in hard believism? I don't know of any preacher that believes that praying a prayer saves. Just because someone repeats a prayer at the end of soul winning to help them tell God thats what they believe....it doesn't mean the power is in the prayer. Nobody believes that. I believe in once saved always saved and easy believism. It's easy to put your trust on Jesus. It isn't cheap, it is free. I believe baptist should embrace the term you used. It's hard to live a sinless life, Jesus did all the hard part.

Alimantado,

I will admit, we must repent of certain sins to enter the kingdom of heaven. I don't think the majority of you understand where I am coming from, or perhaps you do. Which sin must we repent of? Fornication, drinking, adultery? No, it's idolatry, unbelief, false religion. Wording it, the way OB did, and many churches do, leaves people with a false belief that they must get the sin out of their life to qualify for salvation. Everyone knows that salvation isn't about doing good deeds, which it says on the OB doctrine page, but it also isn't from keeping a bunch of negative commandments. (Don't do this) It angers me to see so many people falling for this LIE. It was hard for me to get saved. Why? Because of all of the junk bad preaching fills your mind with. I'm sorry if my choice of font size offended anyone. I never said the author is saying we must stop sinning, but it is also untrue that it means that we must be willing, or we have to be sorry. Crying and begging has never gotten anyone saved, it's faith alone. There are many good things on the salvation doctrine section, but it doesn't take much to taint the message. 

1. The book of John is the only book that's purpose is: 31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. The word repent is never used. Is the book of John an adequate book to give someone the gospel.

 2. Repent of sin is never used in the KJV. It is used in these. 

a. Mormon bible- Jacob 3:8  O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God. LOL

b. Koran - Except those who repent, have faith and good deeds, those Allah will charge their sins for good deeds. Certainly Allah is most forgiving and merciful." (Qur'an 25:70)

The Mormons teach that you must repent of your sins to be saved. I just elected to go with this verse to show what a racist book it is. I don't claim to have all of the answers, but I am convinced that this is causing major confusion and "repent of your sin" for salvation is an unsaving message that leads one to trust in their own righteousness.

 

 

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Biblical repentance isn't a turning from sin(s) per se, it's a turning away from a life against God to a life of believing and following God. Biblical repentance is about turning from doing things our own way to accepting Christ as Saviour and Lord.

In so doing there is a repentance of sin but it's not turning from specific sins such as gossip or adultery that saves; it's the repentance of turning from self to God and accepting His free gift of salvation that sets us in right standing with the Lord.

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Also the book of John was written at a later date than the other Gospels. Repentance is dealt with heavily in the other gospels and some of the epistles..

You can't isolate the Gospel of John from the rest of scripture. Even still, all of the people you see refusing to believe on Christ in the book of John are refusing to repent of some sin(s). There is a reason why Jesus confronted the Woman at the well about her adultery.

Acts 17:30-31 shows repentance also, in fact the book of Acts, which is a book of heavy evangelism, contains quite a few references to repentance in relation to salvation.

 

 

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Acts 20:21 is very clear regarding the importance of repentance and the focal point of repentance.

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21

This verse also makes it clear Paul preached the Gospel to both Jews and Gentiles, the very same Gospel to both, and those who claim otherwise are in error.

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I will admit, we must repent of certain sins to enter the kingdom of heaven. I don't think the majority of you understand where I am coming from, or perhaps you do. Which sin must we repent of? Fornication, drinking, adultery? No, it's idolatry, unbelief, false religion.

Wording it, the way OB did, and many churches do, leaves people with a false belief that they must get the sin out of their life to qualify for salvation.

Everyone knows that salvation isn't about doing good deeds, which it says on the OB doctrine page, but it also isn't from keeping a bunch of negative commandments. (Don't do this) It angers me to see so many people falling for this LIE. It was hard for me to get saved. Why? Because of all of the junk bad preaching fills your mind with. I'm sorry if my choice of font size offended anyone.

I never said the author is saying we must stop sinning, but it is also untrue that it means that we must be willing, or we have to be sorry.

Crying and begging has never gotten anyone saved, it's faith alone. There are many good things on the salvation doctrine section, but it doesn't take much to taint the message. 

Ok, well the first point I want to make is about what you are claiming the OB statement is saying. I think you believe "repent" means to stop doing something and therefore you think when the OB statement says a person must "repent of their sins" to be saved, logically it is saying that a person must have stopped sinning before they can be saved. You appear to say this in the other thread too.

The thing is, in that other thread, Heartstrings explained that this is not at all what people here mean when they something like 'repent of sin' or 'turn from sin'. And when he explained it, you were cool with it. Yet now we have you trying to make exactly the same point all over again as if that conservation never happened.

Moreover, in the text I've highlighted in red you say that you are not claiming that the OB statement declares we have to stop sinning to be saved. Yet not only does your original post seem to make that accusation but you appear to repeat the accusation just a few lines earlier in the paragraph above (highlighted in blue). Here again:

You: "Wording it, the way OB did, and many churches do, leaves people with a false belief that they must get the sin out of their life to qualify for salvation."

You again: "I never said the author is saying we must stop sinning..."

Ok, so what does the phrase "get the sin out of their life to qualify for salvation" mean if it doesn't mean stop sinning? Or are you trying to make the distinction that OB is saying it unwittingly? If so, then saying something unwittingly is still saying it, so we're still back to the question: are you saying OB claims we must stop sinning to be saved or not?

You say:

"I never said the author is saying we must stop sinning, but it is also untrue that it means that we must be willing, or we have to be sorry."

So are you claiming that OB's statement--"a person must repent of their sins"--also can't possibly mean rejecting sin in principle, desiring to stop sinning, desiring to follow God instead of a life of sin etc etc, however you want to phrase it? Very well, if the phrase means neither stopping sinning nor desiring to no longer sin and no longer be against God, then what do you say it does mean? According to you, what is OB's statement really saying?

Second point I want to make is to do with your own claim about what we need to repent of:

"I will admit, we must repent of certain sins to enter the kingdom of heaven... Which sin must we repent of? ... idolatry, unbelief, false religion."

Now, if we accept your definition of repentance as 'stopping doing stuff', consistent with your interpretation of 'repent of sin' as 'stopping doing sin', then it follows that what you are saying here is that we must have successfully stopped 'doing' any idolatry, unbelief or false religion before we can be saved. In other words, a person must not have an ounce of unbelief or uncertainty, they must be nothing less than 100% faithful to God and not ever be tempted or swayed by other things, and they must be 100% correct on all doctrine. Once they have achieved all those things, they can be saved. And should a 'saved' person ever experience doubt or uncertainty, or take their eyes off God even for a moment, or turn out to be doctrinally wrong, presumably they must actually have been unsaved all along.

Is that your view? It sounds like it if we accept your definition of repentance. I'm unsaved according to that definition.

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2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV) 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2 Corinthians 6:15 (KJV) 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV) 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

Sure looks like some of the Corinthians had to do some repenting, or they would not be sons and daughters.  Of interest, although they are identified as saints and brethren by the Apostle Paul, they still are not sons and daughters.  God said He would not even be a Father to them until they turned from their present walk.

 

 

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Repent means - to change (mind)   So yes it is true, every person that has ever been saved has repented of something....YOU HAVE TO. Why? Because we can't believe on Jesus if we believe in Muhammad. We can't believe on Jesus if we are trusting in our own works. We can't trust in Jesus if we don't believe in God. We must repent of all of those things to be saved. BUT...it doesn't mean all sin....or even have a change of mind toward all sin like you said. I truly believe OB means this (your quote) desiring to stop sinning, desiring to follow God instead of a life of sin. I don't believe this is correct either. 

What must we do to be saved? Beleive on the lord Jesus Christ. I honestly believe almost all of the people on OB believe this, but we aren't doing that justice by telling people we must also repent of sin. It leads to confusion mostly because of confusion about what the word means. When we believe on Christ we repent (change our mind) about what salvation is (faith). We don't have to have a complete change of mind toward sin. When we grow in the lord and realize that we aren't in bondage to sin because we are saved eternally by what Jesus did for us....that is what leads us to lead a more pleasing life to God. Our faith grows in our walk with Jesus through hearing and reading the word. 

 

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2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV) 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2 Corinthians 6:15 (KJV) 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV) 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

Sure looks like some of the Corinthians had to do some repenting, or they would not be sons and daughters.  Of interest, although they are identified as saints and brethren by the Apostle Paul, they still are not sons and daughters.  God said He would not even be a Father to them until they turned from their present walk.

 

 

Is this written to the saved or unsaved?

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Among many denominations today, there is a rising belief that repentance is nothing more than a change of mind about who God is. In other words, the general consensus is that when God tells us to "Repent" it only involves a change of mind.

But is that what repentance is? Or is it something more? I submit that it is something more.

Let's look at it in this way. Suppose I wanted to to to McDonalds to buy a Filet-O-Fish. I ask my wife to drive me as I don't have a license. Half-way there, I have a change of mind and decide I would rather have a Meatball Sub from Subway. Now, if I had a change of mind, would I continue to McDonalds?

Of course not!

I would tell my wife to drive to the Subway instead.

Repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of action.

We see this in the book of Revelation. In Chapter two, we read:

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Now, was God saying to have a change of mind about her fornication, but to continue in that direction?

Absolutely not!  God wanted her to turn from her sinful ways.

And the very next verse reveals that God does not just want a change of mind...

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

He wants a change of action as well. He wanted those in allegiance with the woman to repent of their deeds... their actions.

If one believes that repentance is merely a change of mind about who God is, that one is deceived into believing a lie.

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Repent means - to change (mind). So yes it is true, every person that has ever been saved has repented of something....YOU HAVE TO. Why? Because we can't believe on Jesus if we believe in Muhammad. We can't believe on Jesus if we are trusting in our own works. We can't trust in Jesus if we don't believe in God. We must repent of all of those things to be saved. BUT...it doesn't mean all sin....or even have a change of mind toward all sin like you said. I truly believe OB means this (your quote) desiring to stop sinning, desiring to follow God instead of a life of sin. I don't believe this is correct either. 

I don't believe we have to repent of "all sin". I think when the average person gets saved there are a multitude of sinful acts they get remission for that they don't even recognise as sinful acts--some perhaps which they may not recognise as sin before they die. In fact, it's implicit in the idea of having faith in a redeemer that we can rely on that redeemer to wash us of our sins even if we fail to recognise all that is sin. So in that bit you quoted, I certainly wasn't saying that desiring to stop sinning meant a capacity to identify every specific sinful act that one has ever committed and consciously reject each and every one. What I meant by "desiring to follow God instead of a life of sin" was that a person recognises that there is such a thing a sin--as doing things that violate God's will--and they know they want to do God's will rather than violate it, i.e. they wish to follow God. When they put their faith in God's grace and Jesus' work on the cross to pay for their sins, they do so because they want to follow Christ, not just because they want to get away with it (although I'm not sure we can deny an element of self-interest).

What must we do to be saved? Beleive on the lord Jesus Christ. I honestly believe almost all of the people on OB believe this, but we aren't doing that justice by telling people we must also repent of sin. It leads to confusion mostly because of confusion about what the word means. When we believe on Christ we repent (change our mind) about what salvation is (faith). We don't have to have a complete change of mind toward sin. When we grow in the lord and realize that we aren't in bondage to sin because we are saved eternally by what Jesus did for us....that is what leads us to lead a more pleasing life to God. Our faith grows in our walk with Jesus through hearing and reading the word.

Let's say I become convinced that Jesus is God, that he died on the cross and rose again, paying for our sins in so doing, and that we can be saved by believing on this work. Let's say I respond by saying: "What an idiot! I really hate God and I want to do whatever I can to grieve him. But I also want to get away with it and I've become convinced that Jesus is Lord, which means I might not get away with it. But I'm also convinced that Jesus has paid for my sins on the cross and that he offers forgiveness if I'll only accept it. Well, though I think he's an idiot for doing that, I'll take it thank you very much! That way I can carry on doing my favourite hobby--hating God--and there'll be no comeback. Bonus!"

In that scenario, I've "changed my mind" and come to believe that Jesus is God--is Lord--and that his work on the cross saves me from my sins. I'm also still totally against God and pro sin. Yet you say that bit doesn't matter, i.e. that the hypothetical "me" above would be saved.

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Before anything happens to anyone, they must hear the Gospel clearly from the Word, the seed has to be planted. Without the Scriptures in their ears, the Spirit will not convict.

With the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It is a Spirit induced change of heart that cannot be explained by mechanics alone. But when it does happen all things are new, the blinders lifted and they receive more and more truth as time goes by like a sponge (some faster than others). This Spirit generated change of heart does create a Spirit generated change in action as the new believer hears more and more milk from the Word.

Saints do succumb to sin repeatedly after salvation but they will never, ever turn to different gods or beliefs after salvation. That is what Hebrews 6 teaches quite clearly IMO.

Noone saved will turn to humanism, paganism, idolatry, islam, budda, the pope, etc...EVER. It is quite impossible so if you have someone in this situation, keep witnessing to them because they never got saved to begin with. They got sold a rabbit's foot prayer.

 

 

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No one saved will EVER turn to another religion? 

Thats not supporting being saved without works. Dont confuse the root of salvation with the fruit of salvation or justification with sanctification.

I guess i was never saved seeing i tried new age beliefs 8 years after calling to jesus for salvation. 

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No one saved will EVER turn to another religion? 

Thats not supporting being saved without works. Dont confuse the root of salvation with the fruit of salvation or justification with sanctification.

I guess i was never saved seeing i tried new age beliefs 8 years after calling to jesus for salvation. 

You are correct, you were not saved before you did that my friend, but a seed was planted. And this concept is certainly supported 100% by Scripture.

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Well i am guessing you mean 'perseverance of the saints' 

My knowledge of this is that it doesn't really mean 'once saved always saved' but that those who have been chosen for eternal life WILL do good works, continue in holiness etc..

Well..  David didnt do that.  Sure, he returned to the faith, but he did grievous sins. Murder and adultery.

 

I reject calvinism on probably all points. perseverance of the saints should really be: preservation of the saved if it is going to mean 'once saved always saved' 

 

Aside from this, even if it wasnt salvation at 13 when i received it, I surely have believed now.

Scripturally tho: what of john 3:16, 5:24, 10:28 etc?  That's saved, done, dusted.  

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