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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Godliness VS Worldliness


Saintnow

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If I am understanding correctly, the issue with Bugsenheimer Bunny, is the idea that Christians ought to be concerned about the little worldly things, as much as the big ones, because worldly is worldly, no matter if they are big, rock n roll, tattoos, booze, etc, or small, ie, 'harmless' like Bugs Bunny.

I used to like Andy Griffith-the show seems so down-home and well, nice. But as a Christian and an adult, I am less and less liking it, on the rare occasion I see one. Andy tend to lie to Opie and Barney and even Aunt Bea an awful lot to keep from hurting their feelings, of hurting himself. And of course, hilarity ensues, but as far as I can see, it just kind of teaches that lying is okay in some cases. Also, what's the deal with Opie's mother? maybe I have missed it, but is she ever even mentioned at all? Andy seems to have this steady stream of pretty admirers, poor Opie must be confused.  No, it really seems to smack of a heavy worldly philosophy. And even the Beverly Hillbillies, they are shown as being decent, old-fashioned God-fearing folks, except God, church, the Bible, etc are never once mentioned anywhere. Sunday is always soap-making day, or planting day, or some-such. 

So herein is the lesson: its the little things that will tend to bite us more than others. What COULD we be doing while we watch Bugs Bunny, or the Stooges, or whatever? Are we redeeming the time for the Lord? This is something that recently in my own life, as I have considered all my life, and much of what I have written herein, that is more and more becoming plain. I'm just not doing much for God, not nearly as much as I should be, and I see the results all around me. I have shut off the Dish network some time back, and set up a local antenna, and now I don't even watch that-the TV sits mostly unused. Watch out for the little, harmless things. Bugs Bunny is not evil, per se, but he;'s a waste of time, time we don't get back. Wood, hay and stubble.  

Another thing is trading like trading part of that property for some road frontage somewhere or something else of value.  I hate craigslist but there is a bartering section. 

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Another thing is trading like trading part of that property for some road frontage somewhere or something else of value.  I hate craigslist but there is a bartering section. 

yes, but again, we have to subdivide the property, and that takes a wad of cash. And unfortunately, the property here isn't of much value. Our 80 acres was bought for $21,000 in the 1980's, and isn't worth much more today. no one wants to live here, because its a dying community, and hard to work. We are surrounded by BLM land, and really the only hope we would have of getting a decent sum of money for the property, is if the local Army base decided they wanted the ability to expand out our direction, and made us an offer. But that won't happen, because they can expand north to the Oregon border, many miles up, no need to go our direction.

Of course, if the 'big one" ever occurs, and the San Andreas fault line goes, we may be sitting on beach front property. Then the world is our oyster.

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If I am understanding correctly, the issue with Bugsenheimer Bunny, is the idea that Christians ought to be concerned about the little worldly things, as much as the big ones, because worldly is worldly, no matter if they are big, rock n roll, tattoos, booze, etc, or small, ie, 'harmless' like Bugs Bunny.

I used to like Andy Griffith-the show seems so down-home and well, nice. But as a Christian and an adult, I am less and less liking it, on the rare occasion I see one. Andy tend to lie to Opie and Barney and even Aunt Bea an awful lot to keep from hurting their feelings, of hurting himself. And of course, hilarity ensues, but as far as I can see, it just kind of teaches that lying is okay in some cases. Also, what's the deal with Opie's mother? maybe I have missed it, but is she ever even mentioned at all? Andy seems to have this steady stream of pretty admirers, poor Opie must be confused.  No, it really seems to smack of a heavy worldly philosophy. And even the Beverly Hillbillies, they are shown as being decent, old-fashioned God-fearing folks, except God, church, the Bible, etc are never once mentioned anywhere. Sunday is always soap-making day, or planting day, or some-such. 

So herein is the lesson: its the little things that will tend to bite us more than others. What COULD we be doing while we watch Bugs Bunny, or the Stooges, or whatever? Are we redeeming the time for the Lord? This is something that recently in my own life, as I have considered all my life, and much of what I have written herein, that is more and more becoming plain. I'm just not doing much for God, not nearly as much as I should be, and I see the results all around me. I have shut off the Dish network some time back, and set up a local antenna, and now I don't even watch that-the TV sits mostly unused. Watch out for the little, harmless things. Bugs Bunny is not evil, per se, but he;'s a waste of time, time we don't get back. Wood, hay and stubble.  

I've noticed the lying too. I've also noticed that, in stark contrast to shows like "Leave it to Beaver" and "Father Knows Best", neither "Andy Griffith" nor "Beverly Hillbillies" have normal families with a dad, mom, and kids. Andy and Barney's only "commitment" to women is to go to the movies and "park by the duck pond". But they even lie on "Leave it to Beaver".....followed by laugh tracks of course. Like you said. watching the tube is a waste of precious time.

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yes, but again, we have to subdivide the property, and that takes a wad of cash. And unfortunately, the property here isn't of much value. Our 80 acres was bought for $21,000 in the 1980's, and isn't worth much more today. no one wants to live here, because its a dying community, and hard to work. We are surrounded by BLM land, and really the only hope we would have of getting a decent sum of money for the property, is if the local Army base decided they wanted the ability to expand out our direction, and made us an offer. But that won't happen, because they can expand north to the Oregon border, many miles up, no need to go our direction.

Of course, if the 'big one" ever occurs, and the San Andreas fault line goes, we may be sitting on beach front property. Then the world is our oyster.

Make that part of the trade the subdividing.  Partial cost etc.  One of the best ways again is to get it zoned for something.  I dunno.  I've never been to the desert.  Heck maybe a small airport with a runway with flying lessons heck even I could fly where there are no trees lol.  Folks around there might like that lol. 

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Make that part of the trade the subdividing.  Partial cost etc.  One of the best ways again is to get it zoned for something.  I dunno.  I've never been to the desert.  Heck maybe a small airport with a runway with flying lessons heck even I could fly where there are no trees lol.  Folks around there might like that lol. 

Believe it or not, we have two airstrips already, lol; one is on the Army base, and the land around it was bought recently, and they are trying to get a big shipping company to use it as a hub, like Fed Ex or UPS-they have a hub in Reno, but they pay exorbitant amounts to fly-here they would have full use, except for the occasions the Army uses it, which is rare. And we have a small civilian strip. The entire area is zoned for agriculture-its a big alfalfa and grass hay growing area. Again, being surrounded by BLM land, they are going to be pretty touchy about any change in use. As well we have 'endangered' kangaroo rats (which you have to fight not to hit due to their numbers on the roads), the wandering skipper, (a tiny moth), and the sage grouse. So then you have to go through the EPA, as well. Plus we have a seasonal vernal pond, which the environmentalists here in California would somehow try to make a wetland and not let it be used. So I try to avoid the attention of the government at any level. 

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Plus we have a seasonal vernal pond, which the environmentalists here in California would somehow try to make a wetland and not let it be used. So I try to avoid the attention of the government at any level. 

In East Milton, Fl was an elderly lady who had pitcher plants growing wild on her property. The government decided she could not build on, use, graze nor sell 25 acres of her land because of this plant which is endangered (though it wasn't endangered 60 years prior when she bought it). Now the crazy part, this endangered plant also grows on the government owned right-of-way next to her property. When it's time to mow the right-of-way, what does the government do with the pitcher plants? Mows them down, of course.

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I think things like declaring things like "spotted owls" as endangered species along with things like teaching our kids about global warming and that the original Native Americans were nature lovers who did no wrong, didn't believe in "owning land", and it's all George Bush's fault, are just steps toward the eventual confiscation of all private property. After the "Liberals" take all our guns, completely control healthcare, that will follow pretty quickly. What was this thread about. (scrolls to top) Oh yeah. The Lord owns it all anyway.

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In East Milton, Fl was an elderly lady who had pitcher plants growing wild on her property. The government decided she could not build on, use, graze nor sell 25 acres of her land because of this plant which is endangered (though it wasn't endangered 60 years prior when she bought it). Now the crazy part, this endangered plant also grows on the government owned right-of-way next to her property. When it's time to mow the right-of-way, what does the government do with the pitcher plants? Mows them down, of course.

Of course: the government never applies the same rules to itself that it does to everyone else. That's why Algore has a mansion that uses as much energy as a small town, but can still be seen as a great champion for the earth and green causes, because he sells carbon credits. So he makes money, stated for overcoming carbon, then probably pays someone to go plant a tree for it. And he gets richer.  Now, I'm no fan of GW Bush either, but at least his property is almost completely self-sufficient, between geothermal heating and cooling, solar and wind power, and reuse of grey water.

I would love to grow pitcher plants and other carnivorous plants, but we are just too dry here. Tomatoes do well, though.

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If watching Bugs Bunny is a waste of time what's this thread with nasty comments towards some who asked good questions?

TV programs weren't made to be in accord with Christianity. Even the "good old shows" that often had a moral to the episode plot were typically not based upon Scripture, but the vague notion of "doing right". Many also featured the "good guys" smoking and/or drinking booze. In the "good westerns" the good guys made life and death choices based upon their personal code, not Scripture.

Early cartoons were made to entertain children with silliness, not teach Bible lessons.

Jesus attended a wedding, not only staying around for the after wedding party, but staying so long the wine ran out while He was still there. Some would call that a waste of time. Apparently Jesus didn't think so.

As Genevapreacher pointed out, it doesn't matter what we do, it's up to us what our eyes are seeing, our ears listening to, how our time is spent. Who here spends nearly every waking moment either in Bible reading, prayer or sharing the Gospel?

We aren't called to be carbon copies of one another. One might be called to spend four hours each morning in the Word followed by four hours in prayer. Most aren't. Another may be called to share the Gospel in "the 'hood", while someone else is called to a different ministry. This person may be called to build a business, which takes a lot of time, make a goodly profit and give generously to fund certain ministries, to provide for the poor. Another may be directed of the Lord to visit folks in the nursing home or hospitals. Someone else may be called to care for children so a parent can work.

While our time is not directed to the same matters, there are always some who will point to another and claim they are wasting time, even if that person is doing exactly what the Lord directed them to. Even if that happens to be looking at an online forum at the very moment a person on there needs the words they will be posting to them, right in the middle of God's will for them, and someone declares they are wasting time online.

We shouldn't purposefully waste time, but it's a fact we all do waste time and sometimes even when we don't think we are wasting time, we actually are.

I don't watch the Bunny or Andy on TV or YouTube. I did watch on YouTube a five part sermon series preached by John R. Rice.

Maybe I'm just wasting my time right now. Then again, it feels like a waste of time when I have to stop doing something and take a bathroom break. Now that I'm getting older I waste more time that way than ever before!

I've never heard anyone say God's grace allows them to watch cartoon bunnies, but I do know that God's grace is available for each of us when we sin and turn to Him for forgiveness in accord with 1 John 1:9.

No cartoon rabbits on my agenda.

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The Bible is way more interesting than TV.  TV is sin filled, vanity and a waste of time.  TV is like a circus that used to come to town with all the sideshows.

I agree the Bible is way more interesting than TV. The Bible has a lot of sin in it too! Reading the book of Judges (as well as many other books of the Bible) is like seeing that circus with sideshows all around. How quickly and easily did the Jews turn from God because they were enticed away by the sideshows. We see similar among some of the Christians in the NT.

The difference between the sin and sideshows we read of in Scripture, is God points out the sinfulness, tells us what is sin, why it's sin, how to be free from sin. The Bible clearly reveals our sinfulness, the consequences of our sinfulness and the end result if we continue in our sins. Praise God, the Bible gives us the One means of being free from sin and condemnation; the only Way to right standing with God and glorious eternal life with Him.

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Believe it or not, we have two airstrips already, lol; one is on the Army base, and the land around it was bought recently, and they are trying to get a big shipping company to use it as a hub, like Fed Ex or UPS-they have a hub in Reno, but they pay exorbitant amounts to fly-here they would have full use, except for the occasions the Army uses it, which is rare. And we have a small civilian strip. The entire area is zoned for agriculture-its a big alfalfa and grass hay growing area. Again, being surrounded by BLM land, they are going to be pretty touchy about any change in use. As well we have 'endangered' kangaroo rats (which you have to fight not to hit due to their numbers on the roads), the wandering skipper, (a tiny moth), and the sage grouse. So then you have to go through the EPA, as well. Plus we have a seasonal vernal pond, which the environmentalists here in California would somehow try to make a wetland and not let it be used. So I try to avoid the attention of the government at any level. 

Kangaroo Rats ok.  Well lol I never.  You could find out what they need then you might not have a problem.  Get it zoned for something useful.  Someone bought the land around the airstrip also thats interesting. 

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We aren't called to be carbon copies of one another. One might be called to spend four hours each morning in the Word followed by four hours in prayer. Most aren't. Another may be called to share the Gospel in "the 'hood", while someone else is called to a different ministry. This person may be called to build a business, which takes a lot of time, make a goodly profit and give generously to fund certain ministries, to provide for the poor. Another may be directed of the Lord to visit folks in the nursing home or hospitals. Someone else may be called to care for children so a parent can work.

 

Boy I know this-this is kind of part of how we lost our church building-one guy who didn't believe a pastor was doing his job if he wasn't actively supporting and being involved in an addiction recovery program. When I wouldn't allow him to use our building for his program, (a Rick Warren program), he went before the Baptist association who held our note and complained about us not supporting them, and that since we were behind in our payments, (though spending a lot of money on building upkeep and repairs, like a new well), he insisted they take it back. Initially they voted to give us another 6 months to get payments going again, something we were in a position to do, but he fought and whined and complained and got them to revote, and voted to take the building. Then he never used it and left the church he was pastoring about 6 months later.

So, since we didn't do what he thought was important, he convinced them to take the building, then never used it himself. So we need to be about our own ministries, not being worried about where the Lord has placed others. I have a friend who for years didn't attend a 'normal' church, because he was ministering to ranchers at an auction on Sundays-it was the only day the auction ran, so the ranchers had no choice-if they were going to go to auction, they had to go Sunday, so he started a service every Sunday morning before the auction began and had some good success with it. Being a guy who also goes to auction, I understand-if you are going to do your work and it involves the auction, you go when its open. So God blessed them with church there. There is no lack of ministries out there-and I think we need to be more creative in finding them. I preached for two nights some years back at a motocross, in the pit area. Biggest crowd I every preached to! No one was saved, but the gospel got out, and I know it made some difference because someone walking behind be cussed me out while I was speaking; I offered to let him repeat himself to the crowd, but he deferred.

I agree the Bible is way more interesting than TV. The Bible has a lot of sin in it too! Reading the book of Judges (as well as many other books of the Bible) is like seeing that circus with sideshows all around. How quickly and easily did the Jews turn from God because they were enticed away by the sideshows. We see similar among some of the Christians in the NT.

The difference between the sin and sideshows we read of in Scripture, is God points out the sinfulness, tells us what is sin, why it's sin, how to be free from sin. The Bible clearly reveals our sinfulness, the consequences of our sinfulness and the end result if we continue in our sins. Praise God, the Bible gives us the One means of being free from sin and condemnation; the only Way to right standing with God and glorious eternal life with Him.

But that's why I watch Touched by an Angel...:lol:

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When I was near the city I found a small park in a bad part of the city and discovered the young black toughs there were so bored they would even talk some about Christian matters and often listen to the Gospel presented. I would take a small "boombox" with me, turn on a Mahalia Jackson gospel cassette and that would draw their attention. (I used this method in a few other places too) The music would draw them in. They would come over looking very skeptical and looking around as if there might be a trap and inevitably one of them would say, "what does a white boy know about Mahalia Jackson?". That would open the door to talking about the things of God. Many of them would comment about how their grandmothers listened to her and sometimes the change in their demeanor as they listened to those Gospel songs was amazing.

Back in this rural area I've had no call to do such. Here the parks don't have much traffic and those who do go mind their own business and most think of themselves as "Christians", even "good Christians", so they certainly have no need to consider the Gospel or pay attention to someone play gospel music (or so they think, and thus the act).

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And so, our callings and methods even change depending on where we are: What I do in my home, is vastly different from what I did in San Diego, particularly in the methods. What works in a busy city doesn't always work in a small rural community. Here there has to be trust built, relationships. Its a slow process; in a place like San Diego or LA, its go-go-go, no time to build relationships so we get the gospel out faster.

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

And so, our callings and methods even change depending on where we are: What I do in my home, is vastly different from what I did in San Diego, particularly in the methods. What works in a busy city doesn't always work in a small rural community. Here there has to be trust built, relationships. Its a slow process; in a place like San Diego or LA, its go-go-go, no time to build relationships so we get the gospel out faster.

 

Amen Brother Mike! That's what I've tried to get through to some folks over the years who think any Christian not doing what they do isn't really doing God's work.

When we look at Scripture we see various men called to differing tasks at different times in different ways and in different places, but all were doing the work God called them to.

We are the body of Christ, many parts with many tasks and means of accomplishing them, while all in His service.

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I know this may be a little out of context but, there is also another verse somewhere which says "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might"(paraphrasing). In other words do it with all you've got and do it for the Lord.....

Colossians 3

 22Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: 23And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. 25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

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Amen Brother Mike! That's what I've tried to get through to some folks over the years who think any Christian not doing what they do isn't really doing God's work.

When we look at Scripture we see various men called to differing tasks at different times in different ways and in different places, but all were doing the work God called them to.

We are the body of Christ, many parts with many tasks and means of accomplishing them, while all in His service.

We had a couple join us recently.  The husband is a retired Baptist pastor.  They were worshiping in a small village Baptist Church, where they couldn't get too involved with villagers as they were suspicious of people from outside the village.  They have been a great asset to our church.  

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What does "alive in God's grace" mean?  What is Biblical about the term "alive in God's grace"?  I see that phrase nowhere in the Bible and don't understand what you mean by it.   The grace of God which brings salvation has appeared unto all men, (saved and lost) teaching us (who are saved) that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously in this present world....I understand God's grace as the reason for us to obey Him...how are you defining it?     I don't understand what you are saying about God's grace.  I'm not much interested in what RCC folks say about God's grace....they are lost and don't know what they are talking about to begin with.  Most Christians (or at least those who claim to be Christians...I have to wonder if they are saved when they believe God's grace makes their sin ok so they are automatically holy and they can indulge in worldly things with no fear of God)   today don't know what they are talking about when they talk about God's grace...do you know what you are talking about?

 

Sin is never okay. Believers do pay a price for sin, but it is not their salvation.It is sometimes by poor physical health, maybe even death, but it is always loss of fellowship with God, which will bring a loss of rewards at the "Judgment Seat of Christ" which every Christian will face for our works to be judged. As believers we should be "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts", but it is by Gods grace in which we do that, not of our own power. We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit which is where our power to overcome sin comes from. Unless we abide in Him as He tells us in John 15:1-8, we are able to do nothing.

The more we understand grace, the more we are able to be obedient to Him, at least by my own experience. Erwin Lutzer said in a recent sermon, to understand grace we can picture a train track with us walking down the middle. If we step over one of the rails, we have moved into licentiousness. If we step over the other rail, we have moved into legalism. Either way is outside of Gods will. It's only when we walk the center of the track that we know we are "walking by the Spirit", and therefore are "abiding" in Him as He says in John 15.

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Brother could to further explain what you mean by heretical teachings of Gods grace which is not Gods Grace at All.I know not of any teachings of this in the IB church here

as far as bugs bunny I haven't had a TV in 20 years and when I had one it collected dust . God took me behind the woodshied when I was but a young Christian and in doing so put me on a path for 35 years in which at times I have faltered yet not once has God faltered in changing me and at 64 He continues to do so and will until he calls me home,amen

God bless brother

 

 

 

 

The heretical teaching of God's grace generally starts by defining God's grace as unmerited favor, and then extends that favor as a blanket excuse for indulging in whatever personal pleasures or pursuits the heretic feels are good for him, or preferable for whatever reason he deems satisfactory to justify the abuse or waste of time..  "The grace heresy" ignores the Biblical doctrine of holiness, and justifies worldliness in pleasures, passions, pastimes, and personal preferences.  A lot of other words could be used to describe pursuit and indulgence in ungodliness and worldly lusts but a few of the "p's" seemed like plenty to make the point.  This kind of "grace" is not God's grace, it is self-justification for self-indulgence  This turns the grace of God into lasciviousness, and short of lasciviousness it turns the grace of God into licentiousness.   (Jude 1-4).     We who are saved by God's grace will serve God by His grace, not living, not thinking, not talking, not acting, like those to whom God' grace has appeared but they have refused God's offer of salvation and take His grace for granted as they continue their deaths in defiance of God.  Christians who claim God's grace permits them to do whatever they feel like doing are wiping their feet on God's grace the same as lost people.

I focused on Bug's Bunny because Bugs is a very worldly bunny, a bunny of the world....a funny bunny, a smart bunny, a well-to-do bunny, but a bunny with a bunny hole leading to Hell.  Many Christians enjoy the bunny as they waste the time God gave them, letting the mind God gave them for his glory be a theater for images promoting ungodly pride.  Christians who have difficulty understanding this are probably living in "the grace heresy" themselves.

Christians who are so rude here that they go on and on and on talking chit-chat about themselves are probably living under the grace heresy.   I hope I'm wrong about that, but my experience in discussing this topic has been that a spiteful and contentious spirit rises in Christians who have a problem with the Biblical teaching of God's grace being to bring the lost to be saved and the saved to be obedient in serving the Savior, and living in holiness obeying the Lord, bringing every thought into captivity for Christ.

Reading the responses here, it's easy to see bad spirits at work trying to obscure discussion of holiness VS worldliness, godliness VS. worldliness.  The holy fire is gone out of most Baptist churches today  because most have compromised to accommodate worldly pleasures and entertainments which are promoted by ungodly people so the Saints scarcely appear or sound any different than the sinners.  This is the result of the heretical teaching of God's grace.  To my dismay, some people active here are living according to the heretical teaching of grace.   I always like to think better of Baptists, then I find out that a deacon in the Baptist church down the road is seen buying beer, and the Pastor of the other Baptist church plays country music in his home...I figured something was wrong in that house by the way the children were dressed.  Most Baptist churches today have compromised so much that they have become weak in speaking against alcohol if they speak against it at all.  This careless and "non-offensive" attitude comes from the heretical teaching of God's grace.  People who whine things like "you're trying to impose legalism on me" usually are indulging in worldly things which by the worlds standards may not be bad and may even be good and beneficial, but they are not losing their lives for the Lord and His gospel...rather they are enjoying their lives for themselves.  Some of those self-indulgent people may be sliding little by little deeper into sin, and many Christians end up being habitual substance abusers or fornicators in thought or word if not fully in body.    "I can't help doing what I do" is a common cheap excuse in the heretical teaching of God's grace.

I guess that's enough for now

It's sad that everybody does not quickly understand the perversion of God's grace as spoken of in Jude, and the correct teaching of God's grace spoken of in Titus 2. 

I think the point Saintnow is making is being missed again. There is a thread a while back called replacement theology that discusses the same concept. You know the concept that satan makes us all miss all day, every day: He that loses his life in this world shall find it. Even the vast majority of IFB miss this concept completely. They get saved, THANK GOD, but then their discipleship is more along the lines of replacing all their past wasted time in what every lost and saved person knows is wickedness with a milder, less wicked versions of the same. OH, and don't forget to pray once a day and read a couple of lines out of your Bible and you will be living for the Lord - HA!. Porno replaced with the family channel or discovery and hollywood with pixar and disney. The exact same amount of personal time is wasted but since it does not SCREAM SATANIC, we think God approves.
Well, pilgrims, He don't approve.

I can only pray to get over this flesh and live it one day. The thing that I will never do is try to justify wasted time with statements like "God gave us this life to enjoy it while we are here" BALONY - I would ask someone to show me anywhere in the Word where Jesus says anything like this, but I already know it is not there.

The example of how believers are to live in is Acts but we still don't get it. They continued steadfastly in prayer and preaching daily. It doesn't mention entertainment outside of the church anywhere. It certainly would if we were allowed to write it though.

So pilgrims, we resemble the first century Christians when work, play, family time is completely centered around prayer, witnessing, serving and worshipping God. Everything else is of the world and is sin by and by. I have know a handful of believers over the years that would have fit in perfectly with the first century church. 99.9% are a hollow shell of those these days.

The same people keep clinging to their delusions of their replaced lives. If it is not of God, it is of the world period.

Live in the world, what choice you got - duh. Live for the world, that is a choice you got daily and most of us fail daily. We spend an hour in prayer and Bible study and 4-5 hours on the world's seemingly harmless entertainment. Sure guy, you are living for the Lord like that - NOT. Quit lying to yourselves.

Very good.  It's really plain and simple.  God wants us to be holy, always and forever.

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