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Hi Old-Pilgrim, I don't know if you've noticed during the recent flurry of activity on the forum, but there have been several threads discussing atheism and more than one of them has seemed to touch on the question you are asking here (if I understand the question). Therefore it might be worth you having a quick review of those and quoting or linking to any posts that you think are relevant to the question, or if you find that your question fits nicely into a discussion on another thread, you might choose to post it on there and close this one.

Just a suggestion to avoid duplicate discussions!

 

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They are lying.  Maybe they believe their lie, as God said He would send strong delusion to those who love delusion, but if they have enough power of reason to say there is no God, God has revealed Himself to them at some time in their lives and they are lying when they say there is no God.  They are stuck in their pride not wanting God to rule over them and in danger of Hell.  They love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.  They won't admit it, but they are lying to themselves first and then to others.  If they are honest, they will say they could be wrong.   If they say "I could be wrong, but I see no evidence of God" they are lying.  Creation is God's evidence, their very life is His evidence. 

The Bible just calls them fools...and corrupt.   They are fooling themselves by lying to themselves.

Edited by Saintnow
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  • Advanced Member

Given this thread is in the soulwinning part of the forum, I want to ask, assuming Saintnow's take on the question is true, what relevance does it have to soulwinning?

When that atheist fella popped in, some folk, including Saintnow, said to him something along the lines of: 'actually the Bible says that you know that God is real, that you deceive yourself into thinking otherwise, and that you're a fool. Therefore I'm calling you a fool and that's our conversation done'.

Now in fairness, some folk were saying this in response to a specific question from the atheist ("what do you think of atheists", if I remember), and so didn't have their soul-winning hats on, and moreover some said that because the chap used to attend church there wasn't anything new to tell him.

But more generally, just because the Bible tells believers that atheists are fools and that they deceive themselves, does that mean our job is to impart that information directly to them and be done with them? Seems to me that if an atheist really does believe in God but doesn't know that they do, then in every practical sense that is the same as them not believing in God--i.e. the answer is still to witness to them and explain why we do believe. Thoughts?

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>>>They are lying.  Maybe they believe their lie<<<

If someone says he is an atheist and he believes he is an atheist, then he is telling the truth.

>>>Given this thread is in the soulwinning part of the forum, I want to ask, assuming Saintnow's take on the question is true, what relevance does it have to soulwinning?<<<

Well I don't agree with saintnows view there, because I was an atheist for many years, and if some Christian tries witnessing to me but treats me a s a liar then I might sense his disrespect toward me making it unlikely that he would win me over.

We are told that God 'hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted...'

I would argue that if God blinds you, you are blind, and the view that atheists are lying is a commonly held error based presumably on Romans 1.

Saint now don't you believe that god has blinded them like the word says? Joh 12:40

 

 

>>>But more generally, just because the Bible tells believers that atheists are fools and that they deceive themselves, does that mean our job is to impart that information directly to them and be done with them? Seems to me that if an atheist really does believe in God but doesn't know that they do, then in every practical sense that is the same as them not believing in God--i.e. the answer is still to witness to them and explain why we do believe. Thoughts?<<<

Ok so there are allot of verses in the bible, so do you know where it says that atheists are deceiving themselves, and if it does, how does that square up with the verses about God Blinding them?

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Given this thread is in the soulwinning part of the forum, I want to ask, assuming Saintnow's take on the question is true, what relevance does it have to soulwinning?

When that atheist fella popped in, some folk, including Saintnow, said to him something along the lines of: 'actually the Bible says that you know that God is real, that you deceive yourself into thinking otherwise, and that you're a fool. Therefore I'm calling you a fool and that's our conversation done'.

I thought that atheist fellow was treated with utter contempt, I can understand an immature Christian reacting in the flesh to his 'humanness' but it was as if he was verbally stoned, and I haven't heard anyone in here showing any remorse or repentance for their attitude or the outcome of his carelessly wandering into what must have seemed like a lions den, he was told the Jesus hates him etc etc. (I have never seen anywhere in the Bible where it says Jesus hates sinners) all of which was out of context in the wrong spirit and in error, un-scriptural nonsense was added, and yet all I have seen is Christian's justifying themselves, forum rules do not negate scripture, and did anyone rebuke RevBob? for his heresy? Because he can cherrypick a verse which says God hates sinners, it doesn't make his rubbish justifiable. The Apostles were wanting to bring fire down from heaven and Jesus rebuked them Lu 9:55.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

So you are not of the view that there is no such thing as a real atheist.

A "real atheist" would be someone who doesn't believe God exists. Some people actually believe that, and a whole host of other things that aren't true.

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  • Advanced Member
>>>But more generally, just because the Bible tells believers that atheists are fools and that they deceive themselves, does that mean our job is to impart that information directly to them and be done with them? Seems to me that if an atheist really does believe in God but doesn't know that they do, then in every practical sense that is the same as them not believing in God--i.e. the answer is still to witness to them and explain why we do believe. Thoughts?<<<

Ok so there are allot of verses in the bible, so do you know where it says that atheists are deceiving themselves, and if it does, how does that square up with the verses about God Blinding them?

I can't defend the position, Old Pilgrim, because, as I explained in the same post, it is Saintnow who has been claiming this and I was just assuming, for the sake of argument, that he was correct. My point is that even if it is true then so what when it comes to soulwinning--surely the best thing to do is proceed as if they don't believe rather than getting all pyschoanalytical on them (or dismissing them).

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>>>Given this thread is in the soulwinning part of the forum, I want to ask, assuming Saintnow's take on the question is true, what relevance does it have to soulwinning?<<<

Well I don't agree with saintnows view there, because I was an atheist for many years, and if some Christian tries witnessing to me but treats me a s a liar then I might sense his disrespect toward me making it unlikely that he would win me over.

I was an atheist for years too, Old Pilgrim, and it wasn't my experience that deep down I really knew or anything like that--I can't even say it in hindsight. I posted about this on another thread.

Edited by Alimantado
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 My point is that even if it is true then so what when it comes to soulwinning--surely the best thing to do is proceed as if they don't believe rather than getting all pyschoanalytical on them (or dismissing them).

Of course, you are right.

I can just imagine the usher Bob on Sunday morning greeting the unsuspecting visitor, 'hey you dumb ass piece of filth, how dare you come in here Jesus hates you, he's gonna see to it that you get slowly sliced with razor blades, hey, hey where are you going, all those morons out there they can't tell you sh@#~t, come in a praise god with us once you clean your act up and get a right attitude.. come back, come back, 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Of course, you are right.

I can just imagine the usher Bob on Sunday morning greeting the unsuspecting visitor, 'hey you dumb ass piece of filth, how dare you come in here Jesus hates you, he's gonna see to it that you get slowly sliced with razor blades, hey, hey where are you going, all those morons out there they can't tell you sh@#~t, come in a praise god with us once you clean your act up and get a right attitude.. come back, come back, 

What?:15huh:

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What?:15huh:

Oh, I was still thinking about the other thread on atheism in relation to soul winning, i.e.

>>>>Opinions On Atheists?

Hi all :)

As some of you may know, I'm a recent member invited by another member of this online forum. I'm also an atheist.

So far, I have been treated fairly respectably on this board which I greatly appreciate, but there have been some inklings by fellow board members as to the intent of some of my posts.

In an effort to help me further understand Christian doctrine and the opinions of Christians in general, I've started this thread so that the following question can be answered: what do you think about atheists and why?

(Possible suggestions for discussion: what do you think an atheist is, what do you think an atheist believes or doesn't believe, do you have any atheistic friends, etc etc; by the way, fill free to express your honest opinion, I don't offend easy ;) )

Thanks :)
Started by Professor_Physika, Saturday at 7:32 PM
Edited Saturday at 7:33 PM by Professor_Physika
Grammatical issues!<<<<<

RevBob
Posted Saturday at 8:21 PM
>>>>>There are only two faiths in the world--true Christianity and satanism. (Matt 12:30)  You belong to the later.  "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

Any time you think of yourself, any time you look at yourself in the mirror, you should take a hard look and give a serious thought to the kind of filth that you are.  Jesus hates you (Ps. 5:5) and He will send you to Hell, to be tortured there for eternity.  You will wallow in burning sulfurous pit, you'll be burning, weeping and gnashing your teeth(Luke 13:28, Matt. 8:12) while Satan and his devils will tearing your flesh apart.

But all that doesn't have to be that way because Jesus, in His infinite mercy, gave you a way out!  Repent, accept Him as your Savior, and you might be Saved, and become one of those that Jesus loves and accepts into His kingdom of joy, peace, and happiness. Praise!<<<<<

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