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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Opinions On Atheists?


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Hi all :)

As some of you may know, I'm a recent member invited by another member of this online forum. I'm also an atheist.

So far, I have been treated fairly respectably on this board which I greatly appreciate, but there have been some inklings by fellow board members as to the intent of some of my posts.

In an effort to help me further understand Christian doctrine and the opinions of Christians in general, I've started this thread so that the following question can be answered: what do you think about atheists and why?

(Possible suggestions for discussion: what do you think an atheist is, what do you think an atheist believes or doesn't believe, do you have any atheistic friends, etc etc; by the way, fill free to express your honest opinion, I don't offend easy ;) )

Thanks :) 

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There are only two faiths in the world--true Christianity and satanism. (Matt 12:30)  You belong to the later.  "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

Any time you think of yourself, any time you look at yourself in the mirror, you should take a hard look and give a serious thought to the kind of filth that you are.  Jesus hates you (Ps. 5:5) and He will send you to Hell, to be tortured there for eternity.  You will wallow in burning sulfurous pit, you'll be burning, weeping and gnashing your teeth(Luke 13:28, Matt. 8:12) while Satan and his devils will tearing your flesh apart. 

But all that doesn't have to be that way because Jesus, in His infinite mercy, gave you a way out!  Repent, accept Him as your Savior, and you might be Saved, and become one of those that Jesus loves and accepts into His kingdom of joy, peace, and happiness. Praise!

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Professer physika, just so you know, RevBob doesn't have much support for some of his beliefs. All Christians were once unbelievers/ atheists, but not satanists. The answers you are seeking will never be fully answered by anyone on this board. Only God can if you seek Him in His word, the Bible. It says in the Bible that even as Christians we also won't know everything either , because His ways are not our ways or even meant for us to understand in this lifetime.

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Hi RevBob!

Wow! You've certainly given me a lot to consider, although I've heard some of it before.

Thanks for the input :)

Hi Miss Daisy!

I'm asking mostly for opinions and how those opinions are substantiated. I'm willing to consider that some of the answers are in the Bible, but I hope that doesn't preclude you and others from resounding to my questions.

Thanks :) 

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Hi all :)

As some of you may know, I'm a recent member invited by another member of this online forum. I'm also an atheist.

So far, I have been treated fairly respectably on this board which I greatly appreciate, but there have been some inklings by fellow board members as to the intent of some of my posts.

In an effort to help me further understand Christian doctrine and the opinions of Christians in general, I've started this thread so that the following question can be answered: what do you think about atheists and why?

(Possible suggestions for discussion: what do you think an atheist is, what do you think an atheist believes or doesn't believe, do you have any atheistic friends, etc etc; by the way, fill free to express your honest opinion, I don't offend easy ;) )

Thanks :) 

There are passive atheists who just don't want to be bothered.  There are also active Atheists who actively believe in no god and there are what has been called evangelical atheists like Dawkins who actively promote atheism.  This is a religion, not a non religion.  Rather than an active belief in God, the have an active belief if no god.

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Professor_Physika:

Why do atheists try so hard to prove the non-existence of God if they believe God doesn't exist?  Kind of a fruitless endeavor, isn't it?

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

These verses in Romans 1:18-23 prove that there is no such a person as a true atheist.  God calls those who deny the existence of God, fools.

Psalms 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Psalms 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
 

 

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Hi LindaR!

"Why do atheists try so hard to prove the non-existence of God if they believe God doesn't exist?  Kind of a fruitless endeavor, isn't it?"

I'm going to assume this is a direct question for me so I'll take the liberty of answering it. Most atheists I know don't actively try to prove the nonexistence of God. Rather, they generally object to the evidence presented or point to inconsistencies in belief. At least, this is generally what I'm occupied with doing. For example, my position as an atheist is this: I lack a belief in any gods because of the lack of evidence for said gods. I don't actively believe there are no gods because I'd have to have a definition of every single god and then I'd have to disprove said gods which is practically impossible.

"These verses in Romans 1:18-23 prove that there is no such a person as a true atheist.  God calls those who deny the existence of God, fools."

While, of course, I'd deny that these Bible verses in any way demonstrate there is no such thing as a true atheist, I can at least understand where you'd reach the conclusion. I likewise don't think I'm too big of a fool (hopefully), but I'm always open to the proposition that I'm wrong :) 

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

Now it's not my place to pick apart Bible verses, but I do find it interesting that you quoted the end of this verse (most people only quote "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.). It's interesting because I believe it's demonstrably wrong from a literal perspective: I and others like me do good all of the time. In fact, I donated to Goodwill last month, which I think we can agree is a good work (not to brag of course).
So I guess my question would be how do you reconcile this verse with demonstrable reality?
Thanks :) 

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Considering so many atheists take offense at even the thought of God, and many go to lengths to try and tell everyone there is no God, why not put forth evidence which proves atheism correct?

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https://www.thebereancall.org/content/july-2013-in-defense

In Defense of the Faith

Hunt, Dave

Jul 1 2013

Biblical Answers to Challenging Questions

Must I Believe God Exists Before I Seek Him?

Question: In my daily Bible reading, I came across a verse that really puzzles me: “Without faith it is impossible to please him [God]; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him” (Hebrews:11:6). Rather than God revealing Him-self to a seeking heart, it sounds as though one must already believe in God before seeking Him. How can that be the case?

Response:  Would someone seek God if he didn’t already believe He existed? It would be a waste of time. In fact, everyone, including you, knows that God exists.

The true story is told of a London street preacher who announced to his audience that every atheist was a fool because the Bible said so. A well-known atheist in the crowd shouted back at him that it was a slanderous insult, which he took personally, and that he would sue the preacher for damages. The preacher responded, “It’s not slander to tell the truth.”

The atheist countered, “And it’s not truth unless you can prove it! You’ll have to prove in court that I’m a fool, or I’ll take every pound you’ve got!”

“I don’t have to go to court to prove it,” said the preacher calmly. “You say you’re an atheist?”

“Yes, and not just a casual one. I’ve spent my life proving God doesn’t exist. It’s a pernicious myth!”

“Spent your life proving God doesn’t exist, have you?” replied the preacher. “Tell me this: if a man who spends his life fighting against something that doesn’t exist isn’t a fool, who is?”

Likewise, one would have to be a fool to spend any time at all seeking to know a God without being convinced that He exists. God expects every person, as the first step in knowing Him, to admit the obvious fact that He exists. Furthermore, God expects each person coming to Him to have a proper concept of who He is. He won’t honor prayers to an idol or to some “force” or “higher power.” Each person is accountable on the basis of the evidence to come to a proper understanding of God and not to be seeking some false god. God also requires that those who come to Him truly believe that He is not a God of caprice or trickery but a God who “rewards those who diligently seek Him.”

What is it that any sincere seeker should already have concluded about the God he wants to know? Reason and evidence dictate the following: To create the universe, God must be all-powerful (omnipotent) and all-knowing (omniscient) and in touch with every part of the universe at once (omnipresent). He would have to be at least as personal a Being as we are in order to create us. He would need to perfectly embody all that we recognize as the highest qualities to which mankind could aspire—love, truth, justice, patience, kindness, compassion, etc.—or there would be no explanation for our admiration of such attributes. Furthermore, He would have to know the future consequences of every action in His universe. Otherwise, He could make some terrible blunders. And of course He must have existed eternally as God. He certainly couldn’t have evolved or developed out of something or someone that was less than God.

The true God must also be able to create everything out of  nothing  and not just build or manufacture His universe out of materials already available. Not energy, not matter, not gravity or electricity, but  God alone  must be self-existent in order to be the cause of all. Finally, He must be perfectly good and just, or there would be no explanation for the common recognition of right and wrong written in the conscience of all mankind all over this earth. These are the minimum qualifications of the true God, without which we couldn’t trust and worship and love Him.

Although we can understand the necessity of the above abilities, it is also completely beyond our capacity to comprehend such a Being: a God who has  always  existed and thus is without beginning or end; who not only created everything out of nothing but in order not to lose control of His creation must know where every subatomic particle in every atom ever was or ever will be; who must also know what every person who ever lived or ever will live has ever thought or ever will think or say or do, etc. Obviously, such a God is beyond our ability to fully comprehend.

At the same time that God is beyond our comprehension, however, we have seen that both reason and evidence demand such a God as the only explanation for our own existence and that of the universe around us. To deny this God, though He is incomprehensible, would fly in the face of reason and common sense. It is both impossible and unreasonable for there to have been a time when nothing existed and to have everything, including God, somehow arise out of that void of nothingness. It is totally unreasonable to suggest that life and intelligence sprang unaided from dead, empty space and thereafter evolved by chance.

Having come to these conclusions about God on the basis of the evidence all around him and in his own conscience, the seeker is now in a position to cry out to this true God to reveal Himself. The precise steps and circumstances and inner convictions through which God will reveal Himself vary with each individual. It is through His Word, however, that the fullest and clearest revelation of God comes. And in this Word, God has revealed Himself in Jesus Christ, who declared, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John:14:9). Jesus also said, “No man cometh unto the Father but by me” (John:14:6). Whoever wants to know God must get to know Jesus. He is revealed in God’s Word, and He reveals Himself to those who open their hearts to Him. As He said, “Behold, I stand at the door [of every human heart] and knock; if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to him” (Revelation:3:20).

—  An excerpt   from  In Defense of the Faith (pp. 47-49)  by  Dave Hunt

 

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Hi John81!

As you have posed what I can only presume is a question intended for me, I will, again, take the liberty of answering.

"Considering so many atheists take offense at even the thought of God, and many go to lengths to try and tell everyone there is no God, why not put forth evidence which proves atheism correct?"

First, I take issue with the assessment that "many" atheists are offended at even the thought of God. For one, "many" is pretty vague and, if you're trying to relay that the majority are offended, I disagree simply because I don't see that trend. I won't deny some are for whatever reason, but I can at least tell you I am not offended in the slightest.

My criticism with the contention that "many" go out of their way to tell people there is no God is much the same: namely that "many" is undefined and could possibly be irrelevant and I see that characterization of their opinion to be largely a strawman. Most atheists I know don't actively believe there are no gods, they simply lack the belief as I do.

But your final point is trickier. Atheism is the lack of belief of gods. Think of it like this: imagine someone lacks a belief in Bigfoot-- they are an "a-bigfootist". Do they have evidence that shows Bigfoot doesn't exist? Maybe, although it's seriously doubtful as we all know the issues with proving a negative. More than likely, they will examine the evidence that is supposedly in favor of Bigfoot's existence and then come to a conclusion therefrom. If they find it unconvincing, they are still an "a-bigfootist". This is directly analogous to how most atheists I know operate and I, too, follow this methodology.

Hi LindaR!

There are a few things wrong with the excerpt you've laid out as it will describe:

"Would someone seek God if he didn’t already believe He existed? It would be a waste of time. In fact, everyone, including you, knows that God exists."

I disagree that this would be a waste of time. In fact, if one began with the preconception that God existed, of course they would find God. It's a tautology, and, more importantly, it demonstrates a confirmation bias. Take scientific hypotheses for example (I know, God isn't science, but bear with me). Scientists form hypotheses based on educated guesses, but they don't actively believe their hypotheses. They performed experiments to test their hypotheses and come to a conclusion based on these tests. Sometimes the hypothesis holds up, but it usually is found to be incorrect or it has to be modified. In the same way a scientist doesn't have to be her/his hypothesis in order to discover its validity, I deny that I must believe in your god to discover if He exists.

""Yes, and not just a casual one. I’ve spent my life proving God doesn’t exist. It’s a pernicious myth!”"

First, let's be honest: not a lot of people act like this and this is probably a caricature drawn up for the sake of convenience of the story. That being said, because of this shallow characterization, it also overlooks some things. The atheist in the story admits he's not a casual atheist, so the logic that all atheists are fools because of the acts and convictions of this one is illogical. This story suggests that if the atheist in the story wasn't this radical and still filed for slander against the preacher, he would be successful in such a lawsuit because his radical nature wouldn't lend itself to the preacher's  point. I guess my point is that the story is so obviously scripted as to be laughable and blatantly unrealistic.

"God expects every person, as the first step in knowing Him, to admit the obvious fact that He exists."

This, to me, seems like an obvious demonstration of confirmation bias so I'm not quite sure how this is valid.

"Finally, He must be perfectly good and just, or there would be no explanation for the common recognition of right and wrong written in the conscience of all mankind all over this earth."

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find universal agreement concerning morals on any issue on the planet. Furthermore, sociopaths are notorious for specifically not being able to recognize what some would consider obviously "bad" acts.

I won't critique the rest of the excerpt as it goes into specifics that I think should be discussed at a later time, but that is my opinion on what the author has laid out.

Thanks :) 

 

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No one is naturally an atheist.  There has never been a single culture on the planet that hasn't believed there is a god.  You have to be educated into atheism through a brainwashing that goes against all the obvious evidence of an intelligent creator and divine order to the universe.  That is either through an aggressive indoctrination of atheist beliefs or I have found just as common, some horribly traumatic event in the atheists life that they have blamed God for, rather than the prince of this world Satan.  Many times once an atheist understands God and how He truly is and interacts with man, he comes to understand that the traumatic events that had them so angry were NOT from God but from sin and Gods purposeful creation of man with a free moral spirit and not an automaton robot that must do exactly as God wills.  It requires FAR more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian.

I find also just as often an atheist really doesn't believe there is no god, but is really an agnostic who believes you can't know god or that god no longer has any direct involvement in the daily lives of mankind.  They acknowledge the obvious irrefutable evidence of intelligent order and design in the universe and nature but believe any influence by a supreme being stopped at that, and we are left to fend for ourselves as we see fit. 

Bro. Garry

 

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Professor_Physika...

I didn't expect that you would agree with the article by Dave Hunt.  Just because you disagree with the content does not mean that you are correct or that the content is wrong.  Your critique is simply your own opinion.   You will find out how worthless opinions are when you die and face God, your Creator.  If you believe that this life is all there is, you are in for a great big surprise.  Believe it or not, you are not going to be annihilated.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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Hi LindaR

"I didn't expect that you would agree with the article by Dave Hunt.  Just because you disagree with the content does not mean that you are correct or that the content is wrong.  Your critique is simply your own opinion."

That's fine, I was simply answering some of the objectionable material I found therein. In order for future discussion to be more fruitful, might I respectfully suggest you respond to my critiques so that I may understand the errors in my opinion? Thanks :) 

"You will find out how worthless opinions are when you die and face God, your Creator.  If you believe that this life is all there is, you are in for a great big surprise.  Believe it or not, you are not going to be annihilated."

If I die an atheist and face God, I will be as honest with Him then as I am with you now. But perhaps this thread is getting off-topic. Please tell me further what you and other users believe about atheists and why?

Thanks :) 

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This is what I believe about atheists:  I don't believe there is such a person as a true atheist.  The reason why is in the God's Word (Romans 1:18-23). 

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Hi Miss Daisy!

"why do you even care what our opinions of atheists are?"

Good question! Besides plain old curiosity, it's primarily because I've noticed atheists tend to receive a lot of negative stigma and I felt that perhaps I could clear up some negative and untruthful attitudes. Obviously we all don't live in a vacuum, our beliefs influence our actions and if our interactions happen to be with those we know our atheists, having unfairly biased opinions or a misunderstanding about who they are don't help in easing tension between the two groups. This assessment, of course, goes both ways.

Thanks :) 

 

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Hi LindaR!

Can you define "true atheist"? Also, what does the converse term, "false atheist", imply in meaning?

Thanks

Since an atheist "claims" to deny the existence of God and since those who "claim" to be atheists believe in the existence of the some type of "spiritual" being, those persons are not "true" atheists and neither are those persons "false" atheists.  They are non-atheists making false claims about God and the Bible. The existence of God is proven in the Bible and creation (Psalms 19:1).  Even the devils believe in God AND tremble:

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Professor_Physika, do you believe in a universe?

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Hi LindaR!

"Professor_Physika, do you believe in a universe?"

I'm going to make a possibly unfounded assumption about your gender based on your moniker and say yes ma'am, I do.

Professor_Physika,

That response means that you have to believe in God. The word "universe" is made up of two parts...."uni" meaning ONE and "verse" meaning TO SPEAK.  If there is a universe, it came from ONE SPOKEN WORD.  Only an Intelligent Being can speak...that Intelligent Being is none other than God Himself.

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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
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      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
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        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
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      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
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      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
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      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
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      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
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      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
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