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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Christian leaders threaten civil disobedience if Supreme Court legalizes sodomite marriage


Potatochip

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Frankly,  I wonder who anoints who as a "Christian leader".  I am not talking about the politicians here that are involved in this.  To me they have that right.  But by the Bible.  National Religious Broadcasters president Jerry Johnson, Pastor John Hagee, and Franklin Graham.  Not to mention the RCC people.  Who anointed them, Fox?   Now these guys just might show up everywhere.  As my spokesman.  lol.  I don't need a spokesman.  The Bible says it.  Now they are going to get on there and try convince people that don't know the things of God.  With the natural mind.  About the things of God.  Its like hitting a brick wall.  In my opinion.  Pastors trying to Pastor a "Christian America".   All kinds of books and dvd's will be sold no doubt.  Possibly the outrage will draw Catholics and Scriptural people closer in unity. Fighting the outrage.   Ignoring the fact of fallen man and a fallen world.  Which to me can never be straightened out.  Salvation is the only way.

 

Ephesians 6:12 King James Version (KJV)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places

 

"Church's" that depend on works for salvation.  Will drag you into this stuff.  With moral outrage and anger.  Quicker than you can blink.  The "church's" that do not believe in salvation by faith.  Believe in salvation by works. (How can a "church" RCC that's the well part of the cause be part of the cure?  It doesn't make sense.)  It's always good to see and know who your running with.  Me.  I preach the Gospel.  Christ crucified.  Some people think the Popes a great guy.  Catholics think fighting in the social arena is how they get to Heaven.  They also think getting you involved.  To help them win.  Helps them to get into Heaven.  You might want to take note of that.

 

On the other hand.  Addressing what's going on.  I really wonder if all of this isn't the result of atheism in schools and evolution, partly.  That's been going on for some time now.  Some people don't know that I guess.  That stuff is pure poison.  Take a look at kid's schoolbooks.  They better answer correctly on their tests.  I would guess.  What I mean is God hands people over to being a sodomite.  I have to wonder since the powers that be are ordained of God.  That just maybe because God let's.  That this all isn't about what Americans wanted with the idolatry of porn and such.  Choosing idols over Him.  If the door is just isn't open wider.  I don't know but I wonder.

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/04/28/will-not-obey-christian-leaders-threaten-civil-disobedience-if-supreme-court/?intcmp=latestnews

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm certainly thankful you brought this to my attention. I would have most likely not seen it if not for your post. I'm praying for God's direction and I made a copy of the 'Pledge' and will discuss it with my pastor this evening.

My belief concerning same sex marriage is based on Ephesians 5:23-32. Marriage is given by God as a picture of my Savior's relationship to his church (we who trust and believe him). The attack on marriage, through same sex marriage, is a further attempt by Satan and unwittingly by those lost in Satan's grasp, to denigrate Christ and this sacred relationship. The result is, I can do no more than offer Christ to the homosexual for victory over the sin. However, I can by no means stand idly by without opposition to this sin on the basis of the scripture I mentioned. If others have taken a stand against this blatant attack against Christ and the Church, it is long overdue.

Thanks Potatochip!

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I'm certainly thankful you brought this to my attention. I would have most likely not seen it if not for your post. I'm praying for God's direction and I made a copy of the 'Pledge' and will discuss it with my pastor this evening.

My belief concerning same sex marriage is based on Ephesians 5:23-32. Marriage is given by God as a picture of my Savior's relationship to his church (we who trust and believe him). The attack on marriage, through same sex marriage, is a further attempt by Satan and unwittingly by those lost in Satan's grasp, to denigrate Christ and this sacred relationship. The result is, I can do no more than offer Christ to the homosexual for victory over the sin. However, I can by no means stand idly by without opposition to this sin on the basis of the scripture I mentioned. If others have taken a stand against this blatant attack against Christ and the Church, it is long overdue.

Thanks Potatochip!

​Thank you,  It must be very difficult for people that have children and  kin.  To live through this.  Its kind of a trial in a way I guess.  It's certainly is a very serious matter.  To tell you the truth.  1Timothy.  It's highly disturbing.  A lot of people think that way.  I don't find fault with Scriptural Christians at all.  Because I know they pray against such.  I just wonder if a large section of America hasn't fallen to well a very bad state.  Just reaping what was sown.

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To tell you the truth.  1Timothy. 

Today my pastor provided what I thought was a very profound statement... "I'd rather be true than tolerant."

In Sunday School this morning we studied in 3 John and the following two verses seem to have a clear relevance regarding this thread.
 

3 John 1:3 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
3 John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Then we have the following two quotes from another thread by two teachers from diverse points of view but who provide some insight into this thread.

Rubbish. Our beliefs are justified by Scripture, certainly NOT by Jesuit writings. I've never read any Jesuit writings, and I doubt if anyone on the forum has. 

RC's are not 100% wrong in their basic doctrine, so teaching partial Preterism does not make that doctrine wrong. Likewise futurism, baptism of converts, the Trinity, virgin birth, heaven, etc. 

Doctrines must be tested by Scripture, NOT by who taught them.                                Ian (Covenanter)

 

(quoting Ian above) "Doctrines must be tested by Scripture, NOT by who taught them."

Brother Day and I are 
strongly in agreement on this point.  If indeed a doctrine, as tested by Scripture, is found to be Biblically true, then its origin is in the Lord our God Himself, not in any individual or group who may have taught or popularized that particular doctrine.
                                       Pastor Scott Markle

Finally we have these two scriptures from Ephesians. 


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Truth verified by scripture may even come from the secular media on rare occasions. The quotes above only serve to further validate my firm stand based on the denigration of my relationship with Jesus Christ, my Savior. I therefore have no reservation whatsoever of signing the pledge. If this in some way encourages others to take this bold step, Amen!

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Spoken to Massachusetts Lawyer representing the sodomites.  I applaud Chief Justice Roberts for this statement...

 

​The opposition to same sex marriage should have never gotten this far, it should have ended far earlier by the voice of the people. However, the nation is a nation of corruption, sad to say. Hopefully and prayerfully MANY folks will wake up to a stand against it.

Michigan special attorney general John Burschrepresenting states defending same-sex marriage bans: “This case isn't about how to define marriage. It's about who gets to decide that question. Is it the people acting through the democratic process, or is it the federal courts? And we're asking you to affirm every individual's fundamental liberty interest in deciding the meaning of marriage.”

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Today my pastor provided what I thought was a very profound statement... "I'd rather be true than tolerant."  Amen 1 Timothy 115.  I agree with that 100 percent.  We should never accept contrary behavior in the congregation.  They should know what the bible says.  God is the author and finisher of our faith.   No excuse for not knowing lol.  That's what pastors are supposed to cover.  

Don't elect me.  Because I would do things like clamp down Indonesian style on drug dealers.  36 k heroin deaths last year.  I guess that figure is accurate.  It must be hard especially if you fought for this country to see things like that going on.  That's a lot to risk guy.  (afterthought)  Some military people are probably thinking.  I didn't fight for sin.  But for freedom.  

I am shocked, indignant and really at a loss as to whats taking place.  That includes things like abortion. porn (way out of control and a really big contributing factor)  My opinion.  The approval of all these moral indignation's.  Don't swing on one hinge.  Say one elected official.  If it did well abortion might be illegal.  Where do you point the finger?  Maybe its the sin wanted.  Forsaking or ignoring the fact of God and salvation and Jesus.  I soulwin, people turn their backs on the Gospel all the time.  We have as Christians blanketed this country with the Gospel here and back millions of times.  

Trying to explain the things of God.  To natural minds is like trying hit brick wall with your fist in my opinion.  It's not that we didn't do what we were supposed to do.  Its the fact that people chose the world instead of the Gospel.  My opinion.  

So what I am thinking.  We better start praying really hard for our kin.  The young Christians.  Christians in general.  Because I don't think all of this this is going to get any better.  Salvation for people not swept up in all of this yet.   I see sodomites skinny as rails all the time on the street.  Weight loss is an indicator of HIV,  Human Immunodeficiency Virus .  Not only that HIV brings on other disease.  Because it breaks down the immune system. Brings on other diseases in them.   Like TB etc.  Whats going on just defies gravity in my opinion.  From a public health standpoint.  Those are my thoughts.  Attacking all of this.  Running straight into the separation clause.  Which in popular legal thought seems to be steadfast.  Just wasn't the way to go.  

When your out there in a city like I am 3 or 4 days a week.  You have to be a little street smart.  People look at what I write and nod their heads. Looks ok.  Thing is I won't go near sodomites.  Not for any reason.  HIV is a breaking down or a broken down immune system.  They can catch all kinds of disease.  Not only that their "communities" are smack dab in the middle of very large cities. Many people touch knuckles in the city for the reason of being careful.  Instead of shaking hands.  I am thinking about wearing gloves in the summer lol.  Or putting a baggie over my hand. It's a serious situation. 

Look up any disease you want 1 Timothy.   HIV and TB.  HIV and Meningitis.  Just add the HIV in front of just about any serious disease. Doesn't seem you can get one list all together.  People are worried about a cake?   Who's idea was that?  Expanding sodomite rights risking public health.  Not making it clear what these people can catch and spread.  Is a really bad mistake in my opinion.

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Today my pastor provided what I thought was a very profound statement... "I'd rather be true than tolerant."  Amen 1 Timothy 115.  I agree with that 100 percent.  We should never accept contrary behavior in the congregation.  They should know what the bible says.  God is the author and finisher of our faith.   No excuse for not knowing lol.  That's what pastors are supposed to cover.  

Don't elect me.  Because I would do things like clamp down Indonesian style on drug dealers.  36 k heroin deaths last year.  I guess that figure is accurate.  It must be hard especially if you fought for this country to see things like that going on.  That's a lot to risk guy.  (afterthought)  Some military people are probably thinking.  I didn't fight for sin.  But for freedom.  

I am shocked, indignant and really at a loss as to whats taking place.  That includes things like abortion. porn (way out of control and a really big contributing factor)  My opinion.  The approval of all these moral indignation's.  Don't swing on one hinge.  Say one elected official.  If it did well abortion might be illegal.  Where do you point the finger?  Maybe its the sin wanted.  Forsaking or ignoring the fact of God and salvation and Jesus.  I soulwin, people turn their backs on the Gospel all the time.  We have as Christians blanketed this country with the Gospel here and back millions of times.  

Trying to explain the things of God.  To natural minds is like trying hit brick wall with your fist in my opinion.  It's not that we didn't do what we were supposed to do.  Its the fact that people chose the world instead of the Gospel.  My opinion.  

So what I am thinking.  We better start praying really hard for our kin.  The young Christians.  Christians in general.  Because I don't think all of this this is going to get any better.  Salvation for people not swept up in all of this yet.   I see sodomites skinny as rails all the time on the street.  Weight loss is an indicator of HIV,  Human Immunodeficiency Virus .  Not only that HIV brings on other disease.  Because it breaks down the immune system. Brings on other diseases in them.   Like TB etc.  Whats going on just defies gravity in my opinion.  From a public health standpoint.  Those are my thoughts.  Attacking all of this.  Running straight into the separation clause.  Which in popular legal thought seems to be steadfast.  Just wasn't the way to go.  

When your out there in a city like I am 3 or 4 days a week.  You have to be a little street smart.  People look at what I write and nod their heads. Looks ok.  Thing is I won't go near sodomites.  Not for any reason.  HIV is a breaking down or a broken down immune system.  They can catch all kinds of disease.  Not only that their "communities" are smack dab in the middle of very large cities. Many people touch knuckles in the city for the reason of being careful.  Instead of shaking hands.  I am thinking about wearing gloves in the summer lol.  Or putting a baggie over my hand. It's a serious situation. 

Look up any disease you want 1 Timothy.   HIV and TB.  HIV and Meningitis.  Just add the HIV in front of just about any serious disease. Doesn't seem you can get one list all together.  People are worried about a cake?   Who's idea was that?  Expanding sodomite rights risking public health.  Not making it clear what these people can catch and spread.  Is a really bad mistake in my opinion.​

Potatochip, I've been through and have knowledge of everything you state above. But that isn't the reason why I signed the pledge and encourage others to do the same. 1. same-sex marriage denigrates my Savior, Ephesians 5:23-32 . 2. I'm not fearful of what man might do to me,  Hebrews 13:16 and Isaiah 41:10. I have no fear of what others may say here or elsewhere. God's holiness and spirit and truth worship of Him stands above any decision the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) may make contrary to God's Holy Word. Therefore, I signed the pledge to let SCOTUS and this government know in advance I will not recognize nor support (acquiesce, conform, agree, approve) a decision favoring 'same-sex marriage'.  

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Oh I see talking about a pledge.  I missed that 1 Timothy sorry.  Nothing wrong with Freedom of Speech. I love it.    I do however believe in a strict interpretation of the Bible.   On how to think about government.  With nothing added. 

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I will be surprised and dismayed if the Supreme Court is willing to change a definition that has been present since the beginning of time...namely, marriage being a man and a woman.   

If they do change the definition, many churches will be put out of commission because they will not be able to handle losing their tax exempt status.  (Our church, for example, is NOT 501c3 but we are still tax exempt as a non-profit).   If we lose that non-profit tax exempt status, we will not be able to afford the taxes we would own on our property and on our "income" (tithes and offerings).  Of course we will have to just lose it and let God take care of us, in that case.  He will have to provide the taxes...maybe we'll have to go fishing and look in fish mouths!  haha.

Anyway if it happens, it will be a very solemn day for everyone still for family values in America.

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Oh I see talking about a pledge.  I missed that 1 Timothy sorry.  Nothing wrong with Freedom of Speech. I love it.    I do however believe in a strict interpretation of the Bible.   On how to think about government.  With nothing added. 

​God's word, if you will, 'trumps' any and all government laws in direct opposition to God's Holy Word. I hope we're all praying for God's truth to prevail in eyes, ears, and mouths of the SCOTUS.

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I will be surprised and dismayed if the Supreme Court is willing to change a definition that has been present since the beginning of time...namely, marriage being a man and a woman.   

If they do change the definition, many churches will be put out of commission because they will not be able to handle losing their tax exempt status.  (Our church, for example, is NOT 501c3 but we are still tax exempt as a non-profit).   If we lose that non-profit tax exempt status, we will not be able to afford the taxes we would own on our property and on our "income" (tithes and offerings).  Of course we will have to just lose it and let God take care of us, in that case.  He will have to provide the taxes...maybe we'll have to go fishing and look in fish mouths!  haha.

Anyway if it happens, it will be a very solemn day for everyone still for family values in America.

​Will you obey a nation's law in direct opposition to God's Holy Word?

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"Civil disobedience", at least as it's defined and practiced in America, isn't the same as what the Apostles did in obeying God rather than men. The Apostles, similar to Daniel in the OT, simply continued to do as commanded by Scripture. They didn't go out of their way to disobey, they didn't protest, they didn't break other laws to try and effect that which was against the Word.

As well, while most American Christians expect special treatment when standing up for God, complaining and often lashing out if they are persecuted, the Apostles (and Daniel) accepted the fact persecution may come, and when it did, they readily accepted the consequences without complaint, fight, marches or riots. In fact, we read of Peter and John rejoicing they were found worthy to suffer for Christ (after they had been beaten).

If we are going to take a stand for Christ, we should do so following the model in Scripture, not the worlds model.

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Ephesians 6:12 King James Version (KJV)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

I sometimes wonder if people think that verse is addressing Roman-Greco wrestling.  lol.   In my opinion.  This is only my opinion.  You have to be careful sometimes  who you are following.  Indignant, outraged, vexed.  Your going to be.  There are families involved in all of this.  Your enemy surely knows that. Besides the moral indignation. I don't like the repeal of the Volstead Act.  Hundreds of thousands dead because of that.  Maybe people not reached.  

Pastor's pastor.  Hey they aren't perfect.  So what if a guy gets it wrong every once and a while.  Surely I do.  I like preaching Christ crucified.  Its so uncontroversial.  lol. So peaceful.  So Great Commission.  So pastor's are going to have to really pastor now.  Warning their people about this mess.  I believe that pornography should be right at the top of their list.  Drug addiction.  Adultery.  God is the author and finisher of our faith.  However and I'm no pastor lol.  We need to preach hard against such things. Sometimes. 

So without getting into my history.  You just might get a hard lesson here.  One that has to do with that verse up there.  The RCC is involved in these matters heavily. They network. Now you could say some of those guys mentioned in my lead topic are ecumenist's.  Given that "church" is works based.  Given what it is.  Did things suddenly change with them?   Guys involved in this make big money.  There are party politics.  

I believe in a strict Biblical interpretation of how to think about governments.  Nation governments.  We have our own.  We are a Holy Nation.  Our standards are well, way and above the worlds standards.  So there is no need to worry about us.  My opinion.  

If I verbally,  attacked and insulted people.  lol. If they fought back.  I dunno I wouldn't feel persecuted.  Your really not supposed to insult people. But how do you get everyone on one page.  I don't know that's a tall order lol.  Maybe it takes what Paul went through.  To appreciate relying on God for everything.  He knew government established order.  That's all they did. He was in pretty rough territory.  Got thrown in jail a lot for being falsely accused.   Possibly Rome was in Jerusalem for no small reason. Roman citizens were not the most moral on earth.  However that's the world. Grace is still here.  Order established.  Preach the gospel.

The Nation was never meant to be the Holy Nation.  That's total heresy. We are. To preach that America is a Holy Nation. It defies scripture and salvation. That might be saying all America is saved.  No we are saved and WE ARE A HOLY NATION.   Some want to be yoked.  Go ahead. Join in.  lol learn the hard way.  

If I preached the Gospel and was attacked for it. That's another matter.  

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

​Will you obey a nation's law in direct opposition to God's Holy Word?

​Did you read my post????   I never said such a thing......  :-)

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​Did you read my post????   I never said such a thing......  :-)

​Didn't say you did. I asked a question and the answer to the question was not in your post.

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​Didn't say you did. I asked a question and the answer to the question was not in your post.

​I think this quote from her post is the answer: "Of course we will have to just lose it and let God take care of us, in that case."

As I read it, Suzy is saying they will suffer loss for not obeying the ungodly directive and they will trust God to take care of them.

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