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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

In a Dilemma


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Hi everyone.. guess you remember me to all those who posted in the thread that I started wayback.

Im back! still the same as before...

Well, the guy that I've mentioned (still the same guy 2014). Well, here's an update. Our pastor and his wife invited us for a chat. Since they're concerned about me since Im a member of our church, and the guy that I like (he's studying in a bible college taking up masteral, by faith because his savings went to different people who asked for his help that they will borrow his money and return it when they're able to pay him, he sold his small business because it is not God honoring according to him, and he's changing his ways). At present he's unemployed he doesn't want to get a job because he can't manage a full-time job because according to him, he's studying and does part-time/volunteer preaching in our church (sometimes he's invited in neighboring churches).

My question is should I wait for him even if I know marriage is not his priority, but he told me if I'll meet his standard of loving God first, then maybe he'll consider me. Plus I need to fix an issue about my family that is important to him. He's not looking for a relationship because he told me his vocation is his priority. If God will give him a partner it must met his standard (a God first woman, and someone who's matured spiritually). I admit I lack those criteria, or have fallen short because I'm just a newly professed Christian I was baptized 4 yrs. ago. 

At present he knows that I like him, and I am helping him financially, for his studies and for his things in school like gadgets. He also emphasized to me that if ever God will send him a partner the woman must be willing to be a bread-winner because he'll do full time ministry. I can't explain everything here. Anyway, should I kill my feelings for him, (coz' I have sacrificed a lot), also he's staying in my family's house because its near our church and the place of his classmate where he used to stay before is quite far. We are really like brothers and sisters. And I know most of his personal life. vice-versa

He has helped me a lot, taught me Christian studies. Should I wait? Continue praying? or simply forget him? (He was in a failed relationship 5 times and the last was a hard blow) So his criteria is really hard. 

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Recipe for disaster i suspect. In all relationships, the one who shows the least interest is always in control. Even in this post women's lib culture, when women chase men the men tend to start running away faster.

Back off and let him come to you. If he doesn't then you have your answer. Might seem a hard idea now but will save you pain later.

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I realize that we're only hearing one side of the story and don't even know how accurate that is.

At present he's unemployed he doesn't want to get a job because he can't manage a full-time job because according to him, he's studying and does part-time/volunteer preaching in our church (sometimes he's invited in neighboring churches).

He also emphasized to me that if ever God will send him a partner the woman must be willing to be a bread-winner because he'll do full time ministry. 

Then he needs to get some backbone and quit being lazy!!!

 

 

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At present he knows that I like him, and I am helping him financially, for his studies and for his things in school like gadgets. He also emphasized to me that if ever God will send him a partner the woman must be willing to be a bread-winner because he'll do full time ministry.

​Please know that I'm saying this out of concern and not in a condescending tone.

This is a major problem...especially if he's studying God's word...and especially if his mind is already made up on this. The Bible is clear...

1Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

It's the man's responsibility to provide for his family; if he doesn't, he's denied the faith and is worse than a lost heathen. I realize that there are circumstances; in which, a man may be unable to provide for his family...such as major medical problems; however, if the man is physically able, it's his responsibility...not the wife's.

If you care for this man, pray that he will come to this realization before you marry him.

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Im back! still the same as before...

I admit I lack those criteria, or have fallen short because I'm just a newly professed Christian I was baptized 4 yrs. ago. 

At present he knows that I like him, and I am helping him financially, for his studies and for his things in school like gadgets. He also emphasized to me that if ever God will send him a partner the woman must be willing to be a bread-winner because he'll do full time ministry. We are really like brothers and sisters. And I know most of his personal life. vice-versa

He was in a failed relationship 5 times and the last was a hard blow. 

​First, how old is he and how old are you? I see many things here that cause my 'ol ears to perk up.

1. What is "the same as before" meaning?
2. What are his "those criteria" ?
3. What do you mean "newly professed Christian I was baptized 4 yrs. ago" ?
4. Why are you "helping him financially" and with 'gadgets'?
5. What do you mean "the woman must be willing to be a bread-winner" ?
6. What do you mean "We are really like brothers and sisters"?
7. To what level of knowing are you talking about "I know most of his personal life. vice-versa" please refrain from too graphical a description.
8. Over what period of time is "failed relationship 5 times"?

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I think you know he's not right for you or you wouldn't be asking. 

He grossly misunderstands scripture if he truly believes his wife is to be the breadwinner as he ministers. 

Without knowing the whole story I would say: Run. Don't walk away from this "relationship". Run. And then wait on God to bring you to the right man.

There are worse things than being single...and one of those is an unhappy marriage. A husband is to cherish his wife and love her as he does his own flesh. Not require her to support him. 

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Without knowing a lot more detail - which I would not expect to be given on a public forum - I would broadly agree with the statements given, adding only that if he would refuse to work while preaching then he has some real problems of maturity.

The overwhelming majority of IFB preachers are "tentmaking preachers" (working a secular job to pay the bills) and even fewer have never worked a secular job while preaching.

It shows a willing and sacrificial heart, and a hardworking spirit.

If he won't do that, then I would suggest that he won't last the tough times and will quit the ministry before too long.

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Don't settle for this moocher using his Christianity for his excuses. He's a loser who's using you and your family and probably anyone he can! He will always find something wrong with you in his eyes to justify his not marrying you. Trust me God has someone better for you! 

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I'm just going to give you an example from my personal life and hopefully it will help you decide what to do about this fella in your life.

When I was 25 I went to seminary, with a wife and 2 boys trailing along. I worked 50 hours a week in industrial construction and went to seminary by taking evening classes and online classes, I was also the teen group leader/teen sunday school teacher at our church, it was hard and required extremely long hours between working and class and drive time and youth group, I hardly ever slept and had very limited time for my family BUT my wife never had to work and she was able to stay home and homeschool our children. She also helped immensely with the youth group. Nobody but God helped us financially, I paid for all my schooling, all the normal bills and needs of a family of four with just the one job and at the end of it I had no debt to speak of, and we never missed our tithe or church comittments/obligations.

I guess the question I would ask is, why isn't he able to put himself through school and preach? From my viewpoint based on my experience getting through seminary, it would be a breeze to be a single man working and putting myself through school, without the responsibily of being a father and husband. Either some information is lacking in your description or something is lacking in him.

Colin

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​First, how old is he and how old are you? I see many things here that cause my 'ol ears to perk up.

1. What is "the same as before" meaning?
2. What are his "those criteria" ?
3. What do you mean "newly professed Christian I was baptized 4 yrs. ago" ?
4. Why are you "helping him financially" and with 'gadgets'?
5. What do you mean "the woman must be willing to be a bread-winner" ?
6. What do you mean "We are really like brothers and sisters"?
7. To what level of knowing are you talking about "I know most of his personal life. vice-versa" please refrain from too graphical a description.
8. Over what period of time is "failed relationship 5 times"?

​Hi thanks for all your reply sorry I didn't have time to reply to everyone's post.

Im in my early 30's now.

1. Well, were still friends and nothing has changed about my relationship with him except he made things clear to our pastor. And by the way, he has those standards our pastor agreed with them like a spiritual matured woman. Honestly, Im not that spiritually deep (I consider myself).. not that knowledgeable theologically

2. Criteria - Godly woman, and to fix my situation in our family's house (like if I were to be his wife since he wants his house open to Christian brethren its difficult to share the house w/ my brother since the inheritance (will) my brother will inherit the house, while I get a little share of the money. If I will not have a house that is difficult according to him, and to be living with my brother since my brother is an unbeliever.

3. I was a former R.Catholic

5. Because here in my country the pastor's not really well-paid so I must be willing to be the bread-winner since I'm earning reasonably at present

6. brothers and sister no romantic side on him, but I really like him so friendship relationship thing between the two of us.

7. His personal life, past relationship, secrets, I know coz' he told me

8. College years of his life up to his early and late 30;s

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Listen, the Bible is clear that THE MAN is to work and provide (obviously we're not talking about someone UNABLE due to physical inability -- as opposed to physical difficulty).

I've been in the ministry over 35 years, am an asthmatic, have other health issues, have children over 30 years old and fast on my way to being a great-grandpa. In spite of that I still manage to pastor, handle a Christian School, teach Bible Institute classes, spend time with the family AND work 100 hrs each month.

He's still sounds like he's looking for easy income.

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I'm just going to give you an example from my personal life and hopefully it will help you decide what to do about this fella in your life.

When I was 25 I went to seminary, with a wife and 2 boys trailing along. I worked 50 hours a week in industrial construction and went to seminary by taking evening classes and online classes, I was also the teen group leader/teen sunday school teacher at our church, it was hard and required extremely long hours between working and class and drive time and youth group, I hardly ever slept and had very limited time for my family BUT my wife never had to work and she was able to stay home and homeschool our children. She also helped immensely with the youth group. Nobody but God helped us financially, I paid for all my schooling, all the normal bills and needs of a family of four with just the one job and at the end of it I had no debt to speak of, and we never missed our tithe or church comittments/obligations.

I guess the question I would ask is, why isn't he able to put himself through school and preach? From my viewpoint based on my experience getting through seminary, it would be a breeze to be a single man working and putting myself through school, without the responsibily of being a father and husband. Either some information is lacking in your description or something is lacking in him.

Colin

​He's studying now Masteral (graduate studies) in a bible seminary. The money that he spent for his tuition fee was for selling his shop. And then the rest thru faith he said he's living all by faith coz' he has no savings in a bank like I said the money that he had the rest his ex gf loaned it but until now he was not paying its almost a year and more now, and he believes his ex will really not pay him anymore, the other part of his money was lend to his relatives because they helped him when he still has no business. But now he's back to 0 again. He sold his computer shop because according to him its not honoring GOD because of the games students played... he removed the games and his shop was down so he decided as might as well sell it. That's the story. We all know as Ive said above preaching here in my country is not a vocation or work that is well paid. He plans to go on full time but lately he's been considering some thoughts with regards to his vocation and career. One of his classmates (mom already) helped him financially in his studies, and last sem. I helped him finance for his tuition. I helped him buy gadgets because its a gift for his bday Im considering it he needs a tablet for his preaching.

He really has no intention of marrying because he knows that he's not capable of supporting a family, that's why he saying if GOD will send him a wife that wife must willing to be the one supporting the family (larger part) coz' if we will have children the pastor's salary isn't enough. In our church there are woman who really earns more than the man who are full-time in ministry. Because our church is not so big.

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​Hi thanks for all your reply sorry I didn't have time to reply to everyone's post.

Im in my early 30's now.

1. Well, were still friends and nothing has changed about my relationship with him except he made things clear to our pastor. And by the way, he has those standards our pastor agreed with them like a spiritual matured woman. Honestly, Im not that spiritually deep (I consider myself).. not that knowledgeable theologically

2. Criteria - Godly woman, and to fix my situation in our family's house (like if I were to be his wife since he wants his house open to Christian brethren its difficult to share the house w/ my brother since the inheritance (will) my brother will inherit the house, while I get a little share of the money. If I will not have a house that is difficult according to him, and to be living with my brother since my brother is an unbeliever.

3. I was a former R.Catholic

5. Because here in my country the pastor's not really well-paid so I must be willing to be the bread-winner since I'm earning reasonably at present

6. brothers and sister no romantic side on him, but I really like him so friendship relationship thing between the two of us.

7. His personal life, past relationship, secrets, I know coz' he told me

8. College years of his life up to his early and late 30;s

​It means little what I say past exhorting you to seek God through his word and prayer...genuinely, contritely, and with humility.

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Hi everyone.. guess you remember me to all those who posted in the thread that I started wayback.

Im back! still the same as before...

Well, the guy that I've mentioned (still the same guy 2014). Well, here's an update. Our pastor and his wife invited us for a chat. Since they're concerned about me since Im a member of our church, and the guy that I like (he's studying in a bible college taking up masteral, by faith because his savings went to different people who asked for his help that they will borrow his money and return it when they're able to pay him, he sold his small business because it is not God honoring according to him, and he's changing his ways). At present he's unemployed he doesn't want to get a job because he can't manage a full-time job because according to him, he's studying and does part-time/volunteer preaching in our church (sometimes he's invited in neighboring churches).

My question is should I wait for him even if I know marriage is not his priority, but he told me if I'll meet his standard of loving God first, then maybe he'll consider me. Plus I need to fix an issue about my family that is important to him. He's not looking for a relationship because he told me his vocation is his priority. If God will give him a partner it must met his standard (a God first woman, and someone who's matured spiritually). I admit I lack those criteria, or have fallen short because I'm just a newly professed Christian I was baptized 4 yrs. ago. 

At present he knows that I like him, and I am helping him financially, for his studies and for his things in school like gadgets. He also emphasized to me that if ever God will send him a partner the woman must be willing to be a bread-winner because he'll do full time ministry. I can't explain everything here. Anyway, should I kill my feelings for him, (coz' I have sacrificed a lot), also he's staying in my family's house because its near our church and the place of his classmate where he used to stay before is quite far. We are really like brothers and sisters. And I know most of his personal life. vice-versa

He has helped me a lot, taught me Christian studies. Should I wait? Continue praying? or simply forget him? (He was in a failed relationship 5 times and the last was a hard blow) So his criteria is really hard. 

​I see way too many red flags. I would say a man who mooches off your parents, can't get along in his relationships, makes unreasonable demands and WONT WORK isn't worthy of a "God-first woman". The man is supposed to be the provider; unless he's disabled. Like Happy Christian said: I would RUN!  1Timothy 5:8

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Hi everyone.. guess you remember me to all those who posted in the thread that I started wayback.

Im back! still the same as before...

Well, the guy that I've mentioned (still the same guy 2014). Well, here's an update. Our pastor and his wife invited us for a chat. Since they're concerned about me since Im a member of our church, and the guy that I like (he's studying in a bible college taking up masteral, by faith because his savings went to different people who asked for his help that they will borrow his money and return it when they're able to pay him, he sold his small business because it is not God honoring according to him, and he's changing his ways). At present he's unemployed he doesn't want to get a job because he can't manage a full-time job because according to him, he's studying and does part-time/volunteer preaching in our church (sometimes he's invited in neighboring churches).

 

​Please know that I'm saying this out of concern and not in a condescending tone.

This is a major problem...especially if he's studying God's word...and especially if his mind is already made up on this. The Bible is clear...

1Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

It's the man's responsibility to provide for his family; if he doesn't, he's denied the faith and is worse than a lost heathen. I realize that there are circumstances; in which, a man may be unable to provide for his family...such as major medical problems; however, if the man is physically able, it's his responsibility...not the wife's.

If you care for this man, pray that he will come to this realization before you marry him.

​I agree with NN (as well as the others) here. I work full-time, study at seminary full-time, and also have three small children (ages 3, 19 months, and 1 month) that demand every spare moment I have (which I gladly give them!). I still manage to teach every Sunday, do the occasional sermon, sing, go out soulwinning at least once a week, and disciple a young man trying to turn his life around after prison.

He either needs to learn to better manage his time or he's not trying. I honestly think that needs to be fixed before any relationship is pursued because if he doesn't have time to work now, he certainly won't have time to meet your needs.

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​It means little what I say past exhorting you to seek God through his word and prayer...genuinely, contritely, and with humility.

​Agreed 

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