Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Interesting Perspective


Recommended Posts

  • Members

We often quote, 2 Corinthians 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

Does the Bible speak about cheerful non-givers?

.........cut...............

I'm not the stingy tightwad that some would picture me as being.  Rather, I wisely use what little I have where there are needs.  And, if I have some left over after monthly groceries and bills are paid, then that is extra to be used for God's Work.  If I am heading to Church with that money, and pass a person who could use that money to buy food for their table or medicine for their children, I will stop and give that money to them rather than to the Church.  God is more honored when we do alms than when we add money to a Church account that already has thousands of dollars in it.

​How did that question become all about you and not what the Bible says? There's no need to tell us if you are rich or poor. There is no need to tell us how you give your money, that should be a secret between you and Jesus. 

Sometimes churches need thousands of dollars. New buildings aren't free, disaster relief is cheap. Its the deacons job to look in the church's pocket and see how much is in there and how it needs to be spent. Isn't that part of their job waiting on tables?

That was a good question. Makes me wonder how does God feel about uncheerful givers? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Actually, the "secret between you and Jesus" had to do with almsgiving; i.e., giving to the poor.  Had nothing to do with giving to the Church or some other organization asking for money.

 

meanwhile, many who could have been helped don't receive the help because, "churches need thousands of dollars".  

 

Proverbs 22:16 (KJV) 16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his [riches, and] he that giveth to the rich, [shall] surely [come] to want.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Churches do need money, actually. To run a building (which folk seem to prefer having), to support missionaries, to support the pastor (of whom it is said that the laborer is worthy of his hire). I'm sure there are organizations that misuse funds for unnecessary purposes or ridiculous salaries, but that doesn't negate the fact that it is only right and proper that churches need funds. My church definitely needs funds to run - or we wouldn't be able to maintain the building we run programs in, or support our pastor (who earns much less than he deserves), or keep running the Scripture Printing Ministry, or support the many missionaries we choose to help. Could we do without the programs, SPM, or missionary support? Certainly - but we would also cease to be as effective.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

SFIC, you're continuing with "x ammount" and now introducing "the law" into this discussion. They have no place in this New Testament discussion of giving. I hope your financial situation improves and that God will provide "good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over," Luke 6:38 . But the discussion isn't about your particular situation and why you give the way you do. God put you right where you are and in his infinite wisdom knows exactly what he is doing. 

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

So, I say again...

2 Corinthians 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also. 

Linda are you SFIC's wife?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

1Timothy115,

Is a "cheerful non-giver" viewed the same as a "non-cheerful giver"?  I really don't understand the point of your OP question.  Are those who do not give, for whatever reason (that reason is between that person and God), supposed to feel guilty about it? 

All Biblical giving comes from a cheerful heart.  A person who simply gives "out of duty, obligation, or coercion" is not a cheerful giver.  If one is simply giving "out of duty, obligation, or coercion"....or "giving to receive something in return", then that person is better off not giving anything at all.  All that type of non-cheerful giving is "wood, hay and stubble" at the judgment seat of Christ....it will be burned up.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1 Timothy 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1 Timothy 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

In response to your last question....you have been a member of this forum long enough to know the answer to that question.

Edited by LindaR
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yes, he and Linda are married.

I personally think the question was plain and sensible.

The verses that have already been used here I think make it plain that a person who refuses to give is in sin.

However the simple act of giving does necessarily remove that sin - unless it is given from a willing heart, it is still sin although it is actually given.

The matter one who is unable to give but has a heart that would give if it were possible, is a different and separate matter.

I think it is plain that the Lord would have us give as our heart is moved to, but there are times when it simply is not possible. Elijah during the drought for instance did not hive but was not in sin - the widow he went to gave her last willingly, and in this particular case was rewarded for it.

As with so much of the Christian life, it is the heart behind the action that counts, rather than the action itself.

Give out of duty only and it is sin.

Not give out of rebellion is sin.

Give willingly as the Lord moves you is not sin.

Not give but with a heart that would if the means was there is not sin.

Conclusion: either giving or not giving can be done in sin - it is the heart motive that determines the sinfulness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yes, he and Linda are married.

I personally think the question was plain and sensible.

The verses that have already been used here I think make it plain that a person who refuses to give is in sin.

However the simple act of giving does necessarily remove that sin - unless it is given from a willing heart, it is still sin although it is actually given.

The matter one who is unable to give but has a heart that would give if it were possible, is a different and separate matter.

I think it is plain that the Lord would have us give as our heart is moved to, but there are times when it simply is not possible. Elijah during the drought for instance did not hive but was not in sin - the widow he went to gave her last willingly, and in this particular case was rewarded for it.

As with so much of the Christian life, it is the heart behind the action that counts, rather than the action itself.

Give out of duty only and it is sin.

Not give out of rebellion is sin.

Give willingly as the Lord moves you is not sin.

Not give but with a heart that would if the means was there is not sin.

Conclusion: either giving or not giving can be done in sin - it is the heart motive that determines the sinfulness.

​Yes, I agree with the sin aspect entirely, point by point.

I personally think God used Paul, guided by the Holy Spirit in 2 Corinthians 8&9 in an attempt to grow a grace in these people which should accompany the gospel of Jesus Christ on it's journey throughout the world. If the Lord were not concerned about this grace growing throughout the church then He would not have Paul stress even in "deep poverty" and "great trial of affliction" "to abound in this grace." Not to mention stressing this type of giving IS a grace which they should grow in.

I would go so far as to promote, not on a schedule, nor as a matter of routine, some period of sacrificial giving as led by the Holy Spirit; of food, money, or some other living need by someone or ones more destitute than our own selves. I'll take the flack for this statement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

One who refuses to give to the House of God is not necessarily in sin.  

 

That one may not have food for the home.  He may need that money for medications.  God may have spoken to that one and told him to give outside the four walls of the Sanctuary.

 

its best not to judge another's heart as being in sin if they don't give to the Sanctuary.  The Pharisee of Luke 18 thought he was better than the Publican... but he wasn't. 

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

This discussion is not about you, SFIC - unless you choose to make it so.  PLEASE stop making every discussion on money or giving about your pet topic. No one is judging you for giving, or not - but the fruit of your attitude about giving is very telling. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I am sorry if you and MC took it the wrong way.  I was not trying to make the thread about me.  I was using myself as an example.  There are thousands of others in my same situation, but I was going by personal experience to demonstrate what the Scriptures clearly demonstrate.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

God will call on us to learn the grace of sacrificial giving, we just have to be listening.

The example I gave previously is one where sacrificial giving was fully displayed. The widow was in the deepest of need but gave to the man of God.

Sacrificial giving is certainly not unknown in the Bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The question is, would Elijah have told the widow to give that last morsel without knowing a miracle was just ahead for her?

Elijah was a true man of God who received revelation from the Lord.  He could have easily prayed for sustenance and God would have provided.  However, God sent him to the widow for a purpose.

 

Many today are not operating under the leading of the Holy Spirit when they tell the poor of their congregation to give.  Many are in the way of error when they take collections.

 

Hard pill for some to swallow, but it's true nonetheless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The question is, would Elijah have told the widow to give that last morsel without knowing a miracle was just ahead for her?

Elijah was a true man of God who received revelation from the Lord.  He could have easily prayed for sustenance and God would have provided.  However, God sent him to the widow for a purpose.

 

Many today are not operating under the leading of the Holy Spirit when they tell the poor of their congregation to give.  Many are in the way of error when they take collections.

 

Hard pill for some to swallow, but it's true nonetheless.

​We're not Old Testament Christians. Some folks would use the O.T. when it only works to their advantage otherwise they deny it has any relevance for the New Testament Christian. Sacrificial giving is taught in much of the New Testament. Hard pill to swallow, but it's true nonetheless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...