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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Four Blood Moons on God’s Feast Days


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Many are constantly looking for signs and that's turned into big business for those willing to constantly offer up new signs for people to be fixated with. Then when the excitement wears off, or the predictions don't come to pass, new signs are put forth and the cycle repeats itself.

Israel became a nation again in 1948. Predictions that Christ would return by 1988 abounded...until 1988 came and went and Christ hadn't returned. Then the new sign focused upon the Jews capturing Jerusalem in 1968 which they declared meant Jesus must return by 2008...until that year too passed with no return of Christ. New signs to take it's place came in different forms from different prophecy "experts". Along with scores of other signs to take note of, other dates to consider, more signs to look for. Beware of the Soviet Union they are ushering in the End Times. Beware Saddam Hussein he's the new Babylon and he's going to bring about the End Times. On and on the pointing to this or that as a sign and the constant and changing predictions have poured forth in abundance over the past several decades. Countless books and movies all taking their own slant on these things.

Now, after several decades of this, with millions of Christians living through much or all of this, there is growing disillusionment with the pre-trib rapture view and the constant barrage of signs and predictions associated with that view. While the pre-trib rapture view wasn't a main view elsewhere, it came to hold sway in America but now the pendulum is swinging away from that view to others.

In the process, some are becoming "doomsday survivor" minded, some are so disillusioned they have all but turned away from anything to do with prophecy or the End Times, some are returning to views their churches held prior to taking on the pre-trib rapture view, others are looking elsewhere.

The Left Behind series (perhaps well intentioned?, I don't know) and the attending signs to look for and predictions, eventually did great harm to the pre-trib rapture position among many Americans.

Scripture is clear we are to occupy until Christ does return. We are to continually be about the Master's business so when He does return, and we won't know when, He will find us being faithful.

No call to stockpile a years worth of dried food, or weapons for a personal little army, or build bunkers to hide in, or to scour the news sites and peer into a telescope looking for signs.

Rather we are called to go into the world and spread the Gospel, live so men see Christ in us, spend time in prayer, learn the Scriptures, be ready at all times for Christ to return by living for Him full time.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

anybody here ever here of Herbert Armstrong , all this kind of sounds like him , he made over 200 prophesies not a one happen yet his reformed followers have spent millions preparing for the last days and the only thing they have accomplished is to lead thousands astray in fear.

I know 100% For sure my names is written in the lambs book of life but there's many that are not and we all should be prepared to share the Gospel with them every moment we have. We need to remember Judgement comes to his children first and when we bow before Jesus He'll say well done my faithful servant ,receive what I have Prepared for thee, Amen, Amen

God bless

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

As a new Christian I was introduced to Armstrong by another babe in Christ who had found one of his free magazines (I think it was called "Plain Truth"). Being so new and immature in the faith we simply accepted the magazine, and their ministry, as being Christian. I even remember we discussed the idea they must be real good Christians since they send their magazine out for free and offer all their books and booklets for free. Even so, over the course of the following months as I read more of their material even as I was also spending much time in the Bible, listening to Charles Stanley sermons (this would have been 1981 and 1982), I began to think something wasn't right about Armstrong. It took some more time, but finally came to see where some of his error was. This lead me to the conclusion that if he's so wrong about these matters, what else might be be wrong about and what profit is there in reading his materials any more.

Mormons teach their people to be ready for catastrophe, telling them to stockpile supplies, a year or more of supplies if they can, if not then at least a months supply. Mormons are taught to expect to survive a coming terrible time, since they are special to God and are prepared for His plan. Meanwhile, they expect much of the population will be decimated, including those Christians who aren't right with God as they are.

Many Christian "survivalists" take an "it's mine and I'm not sharing with anyone" attitude, often coupled with an "I'll show no mercy to my brothers and sisters in Christ in need, let alone anyone else", sometimes to the extreme of, "I'll kill anyone, even my family in Christ, if they are so hungry they dare to try and take a packet of Ramen noodles after I've told them to go away."

Meanwhile, Mormons teach they are to draw together and care for one another, help one another and carry one another through the terrible time so they are all together and ready to rebuild and lead afterwards.

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EK Smith

anybody here ever here of Herbert Armstrong , all this kind of sounds like him , he made over 200 prophesies not a one happen yet his reformed followers have spent millions preparing for the last days and the only thing they have accomplished is to lead thousands astray in fear.

I know 100% For sure my names is written in the lambs book of life but there's many that are not and we all should be prepared to share the Gospel with them every moment we have. We need to remember Judgement comes to his children first and when we bow before Jesus He'll say well done my faithful servant ,receive what I have Prepared for thee, Amen, Amen

God bless

I remember a reported that his organisation repudiated his teaching.

According to Wiki

After Armstrong's death in 1986, new WCG leadership sought to change the core principles of WCG Church doctrine, quashed publication of Armstrong's writings, sold off most of the church's holdings and began offering magazine subscriptions for sale; WCG leadership eventually changed the name of the organization and embraced positions closer to those of mainstream Protestantism.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
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There was a split with this one group breaking away and the other group holding to Armstrongism.

I used to get ads for on of the break away groups on OLB after there was a post thread about it a year or so ago.  It stopped when I installed Adblock on my laptop.  

There is a man who comes to our church from time to time who is a member of WWCoG.  He said that they lost 130 of their members when they split with Armstrongism.  They used to keep to the Jewish festivals but he says they don't now, but they still have a camp for the autumn festival which they call the Harvest Festival these days.  But there is a group who still follow Armstrong who meet in the same town at the same time but followed the Jewish feast.

I too came across Armstrong when I was young.  Garner Ted Armstrong (The son, who was later chucked out for heresy, let back in again and then excluded again.) he used to broadcast on Radio Luxembourg, the only commercial station we could get in England at the time unless you had shortwave.  The program was The World Tomorrow.  Armstrong said that he could prove God exists.  My very wise aunt told me that we didn't need to prove that God exists, we believe by faith.

Anyway this man moved down to Folkestone and relies on his free bus pass to travel.  Well over an hour on the service busses, changing twice and they are not frequent or reliable on Sundays, although he does get to our seniors lunch on Tuesdays.

 

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The Bible doesn't say no one can know. It only says individual men can't know, and I don't think that applies to the rapture anyway. Matthew 24:29-36 said," Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Those verses are for tribulation saints.

The rapture is right before the day of the Lord according to Acts 2: 20 -The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:... There is another solar eclipse and lunar eclipse in September. The Feast of the Trumpets is going to happen that month. See Clarence Larkin's charts also for more help.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
1 hour ago, Bornagainlady said:

The rapture is right before the day of the Lord according to Acts 2: 20 -The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:... There is another solar eclipse and lunar eclipse in September. The Feast of the Trumpets is going to happen that month. See Clarence Larkin's charts also for more help.

I have to disagree with 2 things here... First:  I don't see where the rapture is noted anywhere in Acts 2:20.  Second: Clarence Larkin's charts show the rapture preceding the 7 year tribulation.

4-second.gif

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2 hours ago, Ronda said:

I have to disagree with 2 things here... First:  I don't see where the rapture is noted anywhere in Acts 2:20.  Second: Clarence Larkin's charts show the rapture preceding the 7 year tribulation.

4-second.gif

These charts are worth  nothing, as they are not based on scripture Just one pint, for instance.  If you read Jeremiah carefully, the time of Jacobs trouble was the then impending trouble with Nebuchadnezzar.  Larkin's charts are fiction.

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
5 hours ago, Invicta said:

These charts are worth  nothing, as they are not based on scripture Just one pint, for instance.  If you read Jeremiah carefully, the time of Jacobs trouble was the then impending trouble with Nebuchadnezzar.  Larkin's charts are fiction.

Dear Invicta, First of all... I was not the one who brought up Clarence Larkin. I was attepting to prove that Mr. Larkin DID in fact show on his chart that the rapture precedes the tribulation altogether. 
As for your comments in regard to Mr. Larkin's work being "worth nothing"... Sorry you feel that way. We are all entitled to our own viewpoints. Hopefully both viewpoints come from the Bible as the final authority (and God Himself being revered enough to believe His words literally). I disagree with your summation that Jer.30:7 was (supposedly) in regard to the  Nebuchadnezzar/Babylonian time period. 

Let's start with Jer.30:7 "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it."
NONE like it??? I don't think the Lord was exaggerating in terminology here. I don't think He was trying to point out it was going to be just a "bad time".
Instead, when He said it is "great" "so that none is like it", that would mean (had it been already past) there could NOT be another period quite as horrific or "great" as that one.
Where else (in God's word) does it speak of a time period so horrific? A unparalleled time of trouble?
Matthew 24:15-22 speak of the same time period. 
(v.21) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
We see similar wording of a time period which has never been so bad, nor ever will be so bad in the future.

Do you not see the similarities?
If I understand from past conversations, you not only believe they are SEPARATE events? But you also believe they both ALREADY HAPPENED in the past? 
How can that be since God tells us in His word that "there is none like it" AND "not since the beginning of the world to this time, no nor ever shall be"
I certainly hope you are not calling God a liar. This must be the same unique event. 

As for what on earth Clarence Larkin's work or charts has anything to do with the "four blood moons" is beside me (the original topic).
Someone else stated that there will supposedly be "another solar eclipse and lunar eclipse in September" and had tried to tie that in with Clarence Larkin's chart in some way.
I felt I needed to refute that he had ever suggested the rapture had anything to do with blood moons, and also that his charts and work both showed he had a pre-tribulational, pre-millennial, and dispensational viewpoint (throughout his work).
As for the blood moons occuring in September as supposedly being some type of "sign" for the rapture, there is no sign preceding the rapture itself,  nor did Mr. Larkin suggest there are signs for the rapture. Thus my post with one of his charts to show this fact.

Reference given to Acts 2:20 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come"
Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come."
Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"
and it clearly states "immediately after the tribulation of those days" NOT before!
So IF the blood moons/eclipses are significant at all, it has ZERO to do with the rapture, and 100% to do with the "great and terrible day of the Lord" 
AND Sept of this year has zero to do with either Acts 2:20, Matt 24:29, nor Joel 2:31 since that happens "immediately after the tribulation of those days".

 


 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This blood moon stuff is more about hype and stirring emotions for the sake of selling books, drawing crowds and gathering donations. This is typical of end-times hustlers who go from one end-times fad to the next in order to reap fame and fortune.

Cahn has come out with a new book to explain why he really wasn't wrong in his previous shemitah/blood moon books weren't wrong and how it's all still coming together. John Hagee continues in this line as several others do too.

A simple internet search provides an abundance of proof as to why these claims are not only false, but in most cases don't even make sense. Even so, these end-times hustlers continue to rake in the dollars with their books, special appearances and sermon series and calls for offerings.

In light of the end-times what does Scripture actually call us to do? We are called to be found living in Christ and being about the Father's business.

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Sorry Ronda, I went a bit over the top on my previous post.

If you read Jeremiah, All those prophecies are regarding the then impending crisis.  Scripture  doesn't suddenly jump out of immediate context to something else Even thoughs some claim that in many cases.

Similar is not the same; as in you Matt 24 quote.  Your comment is similar to the scripture, but not the same.  You have made a slight misquote and many false teachings are based on slight misquotes.

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On 4/12/2016 at 2:30 AM, Ronda said:

Dear Invicta, First of all... I was not the one who brought up Clarence Larkin. I was attepting to prove that Mr. Larkin DID in fact show on his chart that the rapture precedes the tribulation altogether. 
As for your comments in regard to Mr. Larkin's work being "worth nothing"... Sorry you feel that way. We are all entitled to our own viewpoints. Hopefully both viewpoints come from the Bible as the final authority (and God Himself being revered enough to believe His words literally). I disagree with your summation that Jer.30:7 was (supposedly) in regard to the  Nebuchadnezzar/Babylonian time period. 

Let's start with Jer.30:7 "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it."
NONE like it??? I don't think the Lord was exaggerating in terminology here. I don't think He was trying to point out it was going to be just a "bad time".
Instead, when He said it is "great" "so that none is like it", that would mean (had it been already past) there could NOT be another period quite as horrific or "great" as that one.
Where else (in God's word) does it speak of a time period so horrific? A unparalleled time of trouble?
Matthew 24:15-22 speak of the same time period. 
(v.21) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
We see similar wording of a time period which has never been so bad, nor ever will be so bad in the future.

Do you not see the similarities?
If I understand from past conversations, you not only believe they are SEPARATE events? But you also believe they both ALREADY HAPPENED in the past? 
How can that be since God tells us in His word that "there is none like it" AND "not since the beginning of the world to this time, no nor ever shall be"
I certainly hope you are not calling God a liar. This must be the same unique event. 

As for what on earth Clarence Larkin's work or charts has anything to do with the "four blood moons" is beside me (the original topic).
Someone else stated that there will supposedly be "another solar eclipse and lunar eclipse in September" and had tried to tie that in with Clarence Larkin's chart in some way.
I felt I needed to refute that he had ever suggested the rapture had anything to do with blood moons, and also that his charts and work both showed he had a pre-tribulational, pre-millennial, and dispensational viewpoint (throughout his work).
As for the blood moons occuring in September as supposedly being some type of "sign" for the rapture, there is no sign preceding the rapture itself,  nor did Mr. Larkin suggest there are signs for the rapture. Thus my post with one of his charts to show this fact.

Reference given to Acts 2:20 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come"
Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come."
Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"
and it clearly states "immediately after the tribulation of those days" NOT before!
So IF the blood moons/eclipses are significant at all, it has ZERO to do with the rapture, and 100% to do with the "great and terrible day of the Lord" 
AND Sept of this year has zero to do with either Acts 2:20, Matt 24:29, nor Joel 2:31 since that happens "immediately after the tribulation of those days".

 


 

Dear Ronda

I have highlighted the point in red. The wording is "Such as"  not "never been so bad, nor ever will be so bad."  

In Acts 2:16, Peter shows that Joel's prophecy referred to his day.. The curses of Deut 28 were fulfilled within that generation

Sun moon and stars in prophecy refer to rulers, of the nation, see Genesis 37:9 where we see that the sun moon and stars represent people, in this case rulers of the family (the heads of the tribes of Israel)

I think it was you who posted the Larkin Chart on this thread

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6 hours ago, Invicta said:

Jer.30:7 "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it."
NONE like it??? I don't think the Lord was exaggerating in terminology here. I don't think He was trying to point out it was going to be just a "bad time".
Instead, when He said it is "great" "so that none is like it", that would mean (had it been already past) there could NOT be another period quite as horrific or "great" as that one.
Where else (in God's word) does it speak of a time period so horrific? A unparalleled time of trouble?
Matthew 24:15-22 speak of the same time period. 
(v.21) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
We see similar wording of a time period which has never been so bad, nor ever will be so bad in the future.

I see. So even though I directly quoted both Jeremiah and Matthew (not "misquoting"), what bothered you was me pointing out that in both cases it would be a time period (in my words) "which had never been so bad" and will never "be so bad" in the future?? And you call this "mis-quoting" scripture? So then every comment you make on any scripture would also be "mis-quoting" scripture? Or does that just apply to me? I wonder what "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" actually MEANS? Since you believe it has ALREADY happened, I would assume you believe the "no, nor ever shall be" doesn't really mean what it says? I prefer to take God at His word.

Do you ALSO think THIS has already happened? Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."  It IS in the same chapter. How do you reconcile that verse???

Would this statement (made by you) be "misquoting" scripture? You didn't bring forth the scripture to prove your point, so are YOU "mis-quoting" scripture here? 

6 hours ago, Invicta said:

The curses of Deut 28 were fulfilled within that generation

How about any other statement you've made in regard to scripture? Would that be "mis-quoting" scripture? Or does that only apply when you don't agree? 

 

On 4/11/2016 at 0:01 PM, Bornagainlady said:

There is another solar eclipse and lunar eclipse in September. The Feast of the Trumpets is going to happen that month. See Clarence Larkin's charts also for more help.

And as I previously stated the reason WHY I posted the Larkin Chart on this site, was to prove that Mr. Larkin DID in fact show on his chart that the rapture precedes the tribulation altogether.  Because of the previous post (by "bornagainlady") which stated " See Clarence Larkin's charts also for more help. "  The Larkin chart did NOT note "solar eclipses and lunar eclipse" either.

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Sister Ronda

Matt 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Such as, not worse than,  There never was a tribulation such as that when the Lord punished the nation for murdering their Messiah.  When the temple was left with not one stone standing upon another and the Roman troops ordered to dig up its foundations. All the priests were murdered by their own side and those who had recently worn the sacred vestments were cast naked into the streets and trampled upon.  While the Romans were outside the city there was a civil war inside with three factions fighting each other.  Titus begged the Jews to protect the temple and keep the sacrifice going, but the blood letting went on and eventually the sacrifice stopped, even though Titus appealed to them to keep it going, because there was no one who could offer sacrifices any more, as the seditious burnt down the records office that held the genealogies, their reason was that it also held records of debts and no one could prove that they owed anything.  This building held all the genealogies from the beginning of the nation and, I would suppose,  probably from Adam. All gone.

The tribulation was on One nation, Judea.  One city, Jerusalem.  One people, the Jews.

One woman at least ate her own child, See Deut. 28, People venturing out of the city were caught and tortured and crucified, up to 500 a night till there wer not enough crosses so more than one were nailed to the same cross. The nation was sold into slavery, so many that the price of slaves in the empire went to rock bottom because no one would buy them, see Deut 28.  Many were sent to the mines of Egypt, see Duet 28:68 They were exiled to all nations.

 

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21 hours ago, Invicta said:

Sister Ronda

Matt 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Such as, not worse than,  There never was a tribulation such as that when the Lord punished the nation for murdering their Messiah.  When the temple was left with not one stone standing upon another and the Roman troops ordered to dig up its foundations. All the priests were murdered by their own side and those who had recently worn the sacred vestments were cast naked into the streets and trampled upon.  While the Romans were outside the city there was a civil war inside with three factions fighting each other.  Titus begged the Jews to protect the temple and keep the sacrifice going, but the blood letting went on and eventually the sacrifice stopped, even though Titus appealed to them to keep it going, because there was no one who could offer sacrifices any more, as the seditious burnt down the records office that held the genealogies, their reason was that it also held records of debts and no one could prove that they owed anything.  This building held all the genealogies from the beginning of the nation and, I would suppose,  probably from Adam. All gone.

The tribulation was on One nation, Judea.  One city, Jerusalem.  One people, the Jews.

One woman at least ate her own child, See Deut. 28, People venturing out of the city were caught and tortured and crucified, up to 500 a night till there wer not enough crosses so more than one were nailed to the same cross. The nation was sold into slavery, so many that the price of slaves in the empire went to rock bottom because no one would buy them, see Deut 28.  Many were sent to the mines of Egypt, see Duet 28:68 They were exiled to all nations.

 

Invicta,

The tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24:21 will be on the whole world and will be the worst ever!

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17 minutes ago, Eric Stahl said:

Invicta,

The tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24:21 will be on the whole world and will be the worst ever!

Show me where in Matt 24 or any of the other accounts where it says that it will be on the whole world, or that it ill be the worst ever?

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On 4/14/2016 at 9:18 PM, Eric Stahl said:

Invicta,

The tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24:21 will be on the whole world and will be the worst ever!

 

On 4/14/2016 at 9:35 PM, Invicta said:

Show me where in Matt 24 or any of the other accounts where it says that it will be on the whole world, or that it ill be the worst ever?

Well?

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Its in Luke if that counts.

Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

I should say I'm not with the signs people. I'm just waiting on Jesus, signs or no signs I'm waiting on Jesus.

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