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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Paul gives a good illustration of the Antichrist in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The verse,that this discussion is on, is speaking of a certain lie,dealing with a belief system,concerning the Antichrist of Revelation chapter 13.

 Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

There is a correlation in Romans chapter 1.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Rom 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Rom 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Verses 16 though 32 pretty much sums up how God deals with those who believe or hold the truth in unrighteousness. It could be argued that God turning them over to a reprobate mind is similar to God send them strong delusion that they believe a lie: stated in  2 Thessalonians.

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Only touching upon one point for now:

What does it mean by "except there come a falling away first"?

Which is followed by (in the same sentence) "and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;". Is the falling away and the revealing of the son of perdition events that happen together or does the falling away come first and then later the son of perdition is revealed? If later, how much later?

I've heard it taught/preached that these things from 2 Thessalonians 2:3 come prior to the Rapture and I've also heard it preached they come after the Rapture. Which is it?

Back to the "falling away", I've heard many American preachers point to the condition of American churches as being this falling away. Does Scripture in any way indicate the falling away is referencing Christianity in America (or for that matter, any other particular country)? Is this falling away worldwide or referring to something more specific?

As it's written, it would seem that the falling away will be apparent, something we can notice if we are paying attention. Is this pointed out so we pay attention to notice it when it occurs or simply as an assurance that the end hasn't come since the falling away hasn't occurred yet?

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Kleptes started his quote with verse 3.  This is misleading because if you read from verse one you get the picture.  Before we meet the Lord, two things will happen.  1.  The falling away.  2.  The man of sin will be revealed.  This falling away came centuries ago, possibly at the time of Constantine, but probably began before.

The falling away was obvious then and ended up with the Pope and the RCC.  

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2Th 2:3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness

It looks like a combination of all kinds of lie in order to make one big powerful delusion, All western media is supposed to be owned or influenced by only six companies including news channels, the education and public libraries is supposed to be the same, the subliminals and other mind control technologies are more advanced than they used to be, for example they can do synthetic telepathy now, it is all being brought together via secret societies, The Jesuits it would seem being the mother of them all.

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Why do we always look for future "end times" fulfilment of Bible prophecy? Paul was writing to the Thessalonians, who knew something we don't. We should of course look to the Scriptures for ourselves & our own situation for principles of Satan's activity, & how the believers responsed. But we should not lift prophecy out of its context, unless there is clear guidance in the prophecy, or in the NT writers application of the prophecy.  

The great lie in the time of Acts was the rejection by the Jewish leaders of Jesus as the Christ. Despite the progress of the Gospel, & the conversion of many thousands of Jews, the rejection of Jesus as Lord & Christ  intensified. That "falling away" intensified despite the faithful witness of the believers in Jerusalem  & Judea. The presence of the Jerusalem Christians delayed the destruction for nearly 40 years - the lifetime of "this generation - but the Olivet prophecy of Jesus would be fulfilled. 

The believers saw the signs Jesus had warned them of, & fled the city before its destruction. Lot was called out of Sodom before the fire fell.

We must apply that situation to ourselves. The "great lie" is still maintained by Jew, Muslim, the world in general &, sadly many who claim to be Christians. Our world is under sentence of destruction, yet with the Gospel of salvation by Christ proclaimed. Let's read on:

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Note simply that "believe a lie" is contrary to "belief of the truth." When the truth is rejected, everything is a lie. The great truth is Gospel truth, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 
Stand therefore ..... Eph. 6:10-20 

 

 

 
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  • 5 months later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
On 6/1/2015, 12:41:37, Covenanter said:

Why do we always look for future "end times" fulfilment of Bible prophecy? Paul was writing to the Thessalonians, who knew something we don't. We should of course look to the Scriptures for ourselves & our own situation for principles of Satan's activity, & how the believers responsed. But we should not lift prophecy out of its context, unless there is clear guidance in the prophecy, or in the NT writers application of the prophecy.  

The great lie in the time of Acts was the rejection by the Jewish leaders of Jesus as the Christ. Despite the progress of the Gospel, & the conversion of many thousands of Jews, the rejection of Jesus as Lord & Christ  intensified. That "falling away" intensified despite the faithful witness of the believers in Jerusalem  & Judea. The presence of the Jerusalem Christians delayed the destruction for nearly 40 years - the lifetime of "this generation - but the Olivet prophecy of Jesus would be fulfilled. 

The believers saw the signs Jesus had warned them of, & fled the city before its destruction. Lot was called out of Sodom before the fire fell.

We must apply that situation to ourselves. The "great lie" is still maintained by Jew, Muslim, the world in general &, sadly many who claim to be Christians. Our world is under sentence of destruction, yet with the Gospel of salvation by Christ proclaimed. Let's read on:

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Note simply that "believe a lie" is contrary to "belief of the truth." When the truth is rejected, everything is a lie. The great truth is Gospel truth, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 
Stand therefore ..... Eph. 6:10-20 

Great point Ian. Sorry you are not here to keep up the good work of encouragement to follow the truth.

Many times you have spoken truth to those who will just not listen.

Thanks.

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  • 7 months later...
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On 3/22/2015 at 8:39 PM, Genevanpreacher said:

So...what's the lie?

In 2 Thessalonians 2:10-15, you may be able to discern the lie with His help by seeing what the reminder is in verses 13-15 that reproves that lie in verses 10-12.  

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Since the reminder is about when a believer had received the sanctification of the Holy Spirit & the belief of the truth at the hearing of the gospel, then the lie is thinking a believer can receive the Holy Ghost "again"... as in seeking another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues of which I point out, never comes with interpretation.

That's the lie:  errant believers thinking they can receive the Holy Ghost "again" after a sign.  What they are experiencing is why many are falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils.  1 Timothy 4:1-2

The irony is that as errant believers tote this other calling; it can happen again after another sensational sign in the flesh like falling down ( slain in the "Spirit ) or "holy laughter" movement.  So how many times does a believer need to be filled with the Holy Spirit supernaturally?

Only once at the hearing of the gospel which they had believed.  That is the faith we are to keep as there is no other calling:  Ephesians 4:4-6;  no other drink of the One Spirit to get any gifts ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ) as Jesus keeps His promise for all those that come to Him that they are filled ( John 6:35 ) & thus we shall hunger & thirst no more.  

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is the testimony that we are to have;  always filled means saved.  There is no receiving Jesus Christ nor the Holy Spirit again as warned in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 because of our faith is that He is in us 2 Corinthians 13:5. 

We are to sow to the fruits of the Spirit as opposing sowing to the works of the flesh but if any believer experience what they believe is the Holy Spirit coming over them again when He was already in them when they had first believed;  then that later encounter was not the Holy Spirit.

But this is the falling away from the faith as prophesied as this was happening even back in Paul's days as that iniquity was already at work in the churches back then.  2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 testifies that believers are to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us, but we are to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers, because they are still His even though they are at risk of being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes. 

So the lie is believing you can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sensational sign in the flesh, even tongues which comes with no interpretation, which God will permit that strong delusion to occur on believers for believing that lie.

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A big enough lie can consist of many interlocking lies.  If one speaks of, say, (as is being discussed) it is to believe the antichrist to be the Messiah, then that one lie would involve many lies: Jesus isn't the Saviour, The Jews are not His people, The bible is false, (and that involves a whoooole lotta lies), etc. How many lies could we place just under the lie of the antichrist's claim as messiah?

So it could be 'a lie', (follow antichrist as messiah), but still be many lies in total. 

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14 minutes ago, Golgotha said:

In 2 Thessalonians 2:10-15, you may be able to discern the lie with His help by seeing what the reminder is in verses 13-15 that reproves that lie in verses 10-12.  

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Since the reminder is about when a believer had received the sanctification of the Holy Spirit & the belief of the truth at the hearing of the gospel, then the lie is thinking a believer can receive the Holy Ghost "again"... as in seeking another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues of which I point out, never comes with interpretation.

That's the lie:  errant believers thinking they can receive the Holy Ghost "again" after a sign.  What they are experiencing is why many are falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils.  1 Timothy 4:1-2

The irony is that as errant believers tote this other calling; it can happen again after another sensational sign in the flesh like falling down ( slain in the "Spirit ) or "holy laughter" movement.  So how many times does a believer need to be filled with the Holy Spirit supernaturally?

Only once at the hearing of the gospel which they had believed.  That is the faith we are to keep as there is no other calling:  Ephesians 4:4-6;  no other drink of the One Spirit to get any gifts ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ) as Jesus keeps His promise for all those that come to Him that they are filled ( John 6:35 ) & thus we shall hunger & thirst no more.  

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is the testimony that we are to have;  always filled means saved.  There is no receiving Jesus Christ nor the Holy Spirit again as warned in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 because of our faith is that He is in us 2 Corinthians 13:5

We are to sow to the fruits of the Spirit as opposing sowing to the works of the flesh but if any believer experience what they believe is the Holy Spirit coming over them again when He was already in them when they had first believed;  then that later encounter was not the Holy Spirit.

But this is the falling away from the faith as prophesied as this was happening even back in Paul's days as that iniquity was already at work in the churches back then.  2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 testifies that believers are to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us, but we are to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers, because they are still His even though they are at risk of being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes. 

So the lie is believing you can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sensational sign in the flesh, even tongues which comes with no interpretation, which God will permit that strong delusion to occur on believers for believing that lie.

Golgotha~

While I agree with your basic concept in being filled and filled and filled over and over again, and the nutty signs and wonders movement as being false, I don't kow that I agree with it being the answer to the given question. Welcome, by the way.

I believe, according to the immediate context, that the lie would be a complete, continual rejection of Jesus as Christ and Saviour, because the reason FOR being given over to delusion is because, beforehand, they refused to believe the truth, and rather had pleasure in unrighteousness.  It MIGHT go hand-in-hand with Rom 1, concerning those given over to a reprobate mind, because they had rejected God and turned the Creator into a creature, and worshipped the creation rather than the Creator. Their rejection of Him caused the Lord to turn them over to their filthy minds more fully, and here in our scripture, they rejected the truth because they desired pleasure over righteousness, so they are given over to believe a lie, ie, to continue to reject Christ with no choice to ever change, and thus, to accept the antichrist.

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31 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

Golgotha~

While I agree with your basic concept in being filled and filled and filled over and over again, and the nutty signs and wonders movement as being false, I don't kow that I agree with it being the answer to the given question. Welcome, by the way.

I believe, according to the immediate context, that the lie would be a complete, continual rejection of Jesus as Christ and Saviour, because the reason FOR being given over to delusion is because, beforehand, they refused to believe the truth, and rather had pleasure in unrighteousness.  It MIGHT go hand-in-hand with Rom 1, concerning those given over to a reprobate mind, because they had rejected God and turned the Creator into a creature, and worshipped the creation rather than the Creator. Their rejection of Him caused the Lord to turn them over to their filthy minds more fully, and here in our scripture, they rejected the truth because they desired pleasure over righteousness, so they are given over to believe a lie, ie, to continue to reject Christ with no choice to ever change, and thus, to accept the antichrist.

Thanks for the welcome, Ukulelemike.

May I ask what the strong delusion is that God will permit for believing that lie if your application is correct?

This is why I believe the lie is thinking one can receive the Holy Spirit "again" after a sign & for believing that lie, God will permit that strong delusion to occur on believers.

Seeing how 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter begins with the falling away from the faith and that son of perdition, I believe Paul is addressing that lie as tying in with that iniquity where believers of faith had fallen away from that faith.  

2 Thessalonians 2:7 has Paul addressing that iniquity present even in his day that would cause this falling away from the faith BEFORE that event when that wicked one will be revealed.  Since there is a pre trib rapture, and a coming fiery judgment on the earth, it is that which errant believers should seek to be saved from of being left behind.  

2 Thessalonians 2:10  I can understand how verse 10 would imply that these people were never saved, but Peter goes into detail of what is coming on the earth that even believers should seek to be saved from. 2 Peter 3:9-15  And it is in that context of Paul's words as referring to what will happen on the earth with the falling away from the faith as happening first BEFORE the time when that son of perdition is being revealed as it is that fiery judgment happening after the rapture which believers living in these latter days that should seek the Lord to be saved from.

This fiery judgment will occur after the pre trib rapture;  Revelation 14:6-11 has the 3 angels setting up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth, but by the second angel, that one third of the earth being burned up has happened, with Babylon having fallen.  In Revelation 18th chapter, we see saints have been made to cease from their own works as their works will follow them which is to ashes as the voice of the bride & bridegroom will no longer be heard in Babylon any more, hence the one third of the earth being burned up as Jesus testified to immediate destruction following the pre trib rapture which will serve as a catalyst for the NWO & the mark of the beast system.  This does explain why the USA & the entire western hemisphere is not seen in the great tribulation.

Anyway... I believe Paul would not address the lie unless he has given the reproof to expose that lie which is what 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 is for; to remind believers when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the hearing of the gospel.  So that lies is thinking one can receive the Holy Spirit "again" at another time.  I know this addresses saved believers because of the falling away from the faith & the 3rd chapter which testifies as to evil & wicked men for not all men have faith that do not walk after the tradition taught of us & are in fact disorderly as those movements of the "Spirit" are as utter confusion which God is not the author of.

Just sharing what I believe what that lie is in order for that strong delusion to occur that God will permit and in context to not only the second chapter but the third as well as addressing believers falling away from the faith.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Golgotha said:

This is why I believe the lie is thinking one can receive the Holy Spirit "again" after a sign & for believing that lie, God will permit that strong delusion to occur on believers

I believe that 2 Thessalonians 2:10 makes it clear that those who believe the lie are not already believers...they are/were never saved to begin with.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

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2 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

I believe that 2 Thessalonians 2:10 makes it clear that those who believe the lie are not already believers...they are/were never saved to begin with.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

In context to the 2nd & 3rd chapter, I would have to disagree.  Like I had posted earlier, I understand that P.O.V. and you may not be able to see my P.O.V., but the perish Paul is talking about is them perishing on the earth for being left behind since it is taking place inbetween the two events mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 on earth.

There is no point talking about believers falling away from the faith and then switching to the consequence of non-believers.  Paul is talking about the consequence for those falling away from the faith and unless they repent, they will perish when left behind.  This iniquity is spiritual fornication & errant believers need His help to repent of this.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

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6 minutes ago, Golgotha said:

but the perish Paul is talking about is them perishing on the earth

What about verse 12...which is actually a continuation of verse 11...

11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 

12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Are those who are damned also only damned physically on earth?

 

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19 minutes ago, Golgotha said:

There is no point talking about believers falling away from the faith and then switching to the consequence of non-believers.

 May I ask why you believe that the "falling away" will be believers who fall away? The text only says that there will be a falling away. It doesn't denote that those who fall away are actual believers.

There has already been a "falling away" going on for quite some time. The Catholic church is a prime example. Mormons are a prime example. Jehovah Witnesses are a prime example...and others. Groups with a form of godliness, groups with a form of religion, and groups who center around "god"...yet they fall short of the truth.

However, one day in the future will be THE falling away.

The apostle John makes it clear that if someone walks away from Christ, they weren't really one of his to begin with...

1 John 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

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1 hour ago, Golgotha said:

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Revelation 2:20 makes it clear that this is talking about a false religion...with a false leader...

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

One of the things that Christ pointed out wrong with this church at Thyatira was that they allowed this false religion and its leader to operate around and amongst them. The same is happening today all around us.

This false religion with its false leader seduced and caused true believers to sin...yet...the Lord still referred to those who were seduced as "my servants". The true servants weren't lost; however, they did sin in committing fornication and eating things sacrificed to idols.

This isn't a pronouncement of judgment against believers who have "fallen away"; it's a pronouncement of judgment against a false religion with a false leader and any of its offshoot religions and followers.

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4 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

What about verse 12...which is actually a continuation of verse 11...

11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 

12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Are those who are damned also only damned physically on earth?

 

There are two kinds of vessels in God's House;  the pre trib raptured saints; the vessels unto honor; and the left behind saints & new believers after the pre trib rapture which are the vessels unto dishonor.  2 Timothy 2:19-21

Becoming a vessel unto dishonor is a damnation since they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House once the door to the Marriage Supper is shut.  After the great tribulation, they will be resurrected & then received as vessels unto dishonor.  The prodigal son has given up his first inheritance to wild living, but he is still son, but he can never get that first inheritance back.  The left behind saints will serve the King of kings as spread out all over the world in raising up the next generations coming in the milleniel reign of Christ.  This is why the power of the second death will not be over them as they inherit a terrestriel inheritance;  of wood and of earth where they have to eat from the tree of life that grows in the city to have healing.

The raptured saints live in the city of God that comes down from Heaven as they will give tours of the city in declaring the wonderful works of God there as well as what God has done for them in bringing them Home as the elect;  the chosen;  the disciples that were enabled by Him to follow Him for they trusted in Him as their Good Shepherd to finish His work in them in bringing them to the Marriage Supper in the City of God.

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3 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

 May I ask why you believe that the "falling away" will be believers who fall away? The text only says that there will be a falling away. It doesn't denote that those who fall away are actual believers.

There has already been a "falling away" going on for quite some time. The Catholic church is a prime example. Mormons are a prime example. Jehovah Witnesses are a prime example...and others. Groups with a form of godliness, groups with a form of religion, and groups who center around "god"...yet they fall short of the truth.

However, one day in the future will be THE falling away.

The apostle John makes it clear that if someone walks away from Christ, they weren't really one of his to begin with...

1 John 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

There is the elect;  the vessels unto honor;  and then those vessels unto dishonor that will be left behind.  They were not of us that followed the Shepherd's voice but a stranger's voice;  tongues without interpretation, ( John 10:1-5 ) but Jesus said that there are the other sheep that He has & He must bring them and then they will hear His voice and be of the one fold & one shepherd ( John 10:14-16 )....hint... they will be seeing Him & thus hearing Him in order to be serving Him as the King of kings for the milleniel reign of Christ.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 speaks of those departing away from the faith & so these are believers that had faith, but were led astray by seducing spirits & doctrines of devils.

Titus 1:16 testifies that any work of iniquity denies Him & thus by an inqiuity that denies Him, He will deny us;  2 Timothy 2:12, but even if they believe not any more, having their faith overthrown, 2 Timothy 2:18 by whatever lie that did it, Jesus is faithful & He still abides in them 2 Timothy 2:13 

This is why believers are called to depart from iniquity with His help & by His grace so they can be received as vessels unto honor in His House at the pre trib rapture event.  2 Timothy 2:19-21

Although some have been led astray & snared by the devil in doing his will, God may yet peradventure to recover them before the rapture; 2 Timothy 2:24-26, but if not, He definitely will afterwards because He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him.   John 6:38-40  

So there will be a sheep that followed the stranger's voice as they are NOT of the fold of the disciples that followed His voice by the grace of God & their trust in Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd & all His promises to us.  2 Timothy 4:18

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2 Thes. 2:10-12
10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."
11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"
12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

"a lie" taken literally, would be a (one) singular lie

The one (a) lie would have everything to do with the qualifying statement just previous: "BECAUSE they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved"
What would be the truth they did NOT receive that did NOT save them?

The one singular truth would be belief in Jesus alone for salvation.
No-one (and nothing) else is able to save, but Christ Himself.

The verses include a second qualifier of what this (a) lie would be, by the usage of: "and for THIS CAUSE"

Some would disagree, but I believe that if a person hears the truth that Jesus alone saves while they are yet in the age of grace, and has rejected this truth (as John 3:18 also tells us), they will be condemned.
and further, not have a "second chance" after the tribulation starts.

Being given not just a delusion, but a strong delusion...
That delusion not being given by mankind, nor even from the devil, but from God Himself...
I believe that strong delusion will be far too powerful for them to overcome, nor for them to be able to recognize that Jesus alone saves.
What will they believe in PLACE of the TRUTH? A lie... the lie that someone/something else saves.
The antichrist (whom they will worship) is whom they will believe is their (false) savior.

Most of those who do not agree with this either believe that grace age believers go through the tribulation, and/or that the tribulation has (supposedly) already happened.
However, I have encountered a few pre-trib believers (as I am) who would disagree with me on this as well.

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3 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Revelation 2:20 makes it clear that this is talking about a false religion...with a false leader...

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

One of the things that Christ pointed out wrong with this church at Thyatira was that they allowed this false religion and its leader to operate around and amongst them. The same is happening today all around us.

This false religion with its false leader seduced and caused true believers to sin...yet...the Lord still referred to those who were seduced as "my servants". The true servants weren't lost; however, they did sin in committing fornication and eating things sacrificed to idols.

This isn't a pronouncement of judgment against believers who have "fallen away"; it's a pronouncement of judgment against a false religion with a false leader and any of its offshoot religions and followers.

Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

His words are addressing believers in that church & that He will judge each believer in according to our works.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 warns believers about how they build on that foundation;  if they build wood, stubble, and hay aka any work of the flesh which defiles the temple of God, then they will be destroyed; as in their physical bodies which is the temple of the Holy Spirit; 1 Corinthians 16:19-20 will die but he himself shall be saved, but so as by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15

So 2 Timothy 2:18-21 testifies how a believer can have his faith overthrown to even a point where they do not believe any more, but He still abides in them ( 2 Timothy 2:13 ) and He will finish His work even in those left behind ( Philippians 1:6-11 ) for He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:39-40 ) but not every believer will be found ready & abiding in Him or even willing to leave this life when the Bridegroom comes.  This is why we need His help to set our affections on the things above & not of the earth, trusting Him to take us when it is time.  

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      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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