Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


Recommended Posts

  • Members

Maybe the next verse might help?

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But what was the 'pleasure in unrighteousness'?

Maybe the ability to live life without boundaries?

Sinful ones no doubt they are. Led in the ways of 'a lie', to which even the elect (and I mean saved folk) might, if it were possible, be led into?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

We see all around us, and throughout history, people who choose to believe a lie rather than pay heed to the calling of God. Any lie which one accepts will keep the from the Truth.

We see those who find pleasure in all sorts of sinful indulgences, believing it doesn't matter. Whether they believe their choice of sin doesn't matter because they still see themselves as "a good person, better than others", or they choose some false religion to cling to as their hope after death, or they choose to believe there is this one life and then it's just over, whatever the case may be, they are believing a lie which blinds them to the Truth.

All of us have a choice, whether to enjoy the pleasures of sin for awhile or to heed the call of God to turn to Him.

Whether one chooses to indulge in worshiping Mary, the tyrant Allah, Mother Nature, a celebrity, or simply exalt themselves, they are believing a lie and are separated from the Saviour.

Even after salvation we are yet subject to temptation so it's no wonder some believers may face the temptation to believe a lie. The seal of the Holy Ghost ensures our salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost gives us help the lost don't have. Our Lord is well capable of protecting His own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • Members

Paul gives a good illustration of the Antichrist in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The verse,that this discussion is on, is speaking of a certain lie,dealing with a belief system,concerning the Antichrist of Revelation chapter 13.

 Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

There is a correlation in Romans chapter 1.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Rom 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Rom 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Verses 16 though 32 pretty much sums up how God deals with those who believe or hold the truth in unrighteousness. It could be argued that God turning them over to a reprobate mind is similar to God send them strong delusion that they believe a lie: stated in  2 Thessalonians.

 

Edited by Kleptes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Only touching upon one point for now:

What does it mean by "except there come a falling away first"?

Which is followed by (in the same sentence) "and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;". Is the falling away and the revealing of the son of perdition events that happen together or does the falling away come first and then later the son of perdition is revealed? If later, how much later?

I've heard it taught/preached that these things from 2 Thessalonians 2:3 come prior to the Rapture and I've also heard it preached they come after the Rapture. Which is it?

Back to the "falling away", I've heard many American preachers point to the condition of American churches as being this falling away. Does Scripture in any way indicate the falling away is referencing Christianity in America (or for that matter, any other particular country)? Is this falling away worldwide or referring to something more specific?

As it's written, it would seem that the falling away will be apparent, something we can notice if we are paying attention. Is this pointed out so we pay attention to notice it when it occurs or simply as an assurance that the end hasn't come since the falling away hasn't occurred yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Kleptes started his quote with verse 3.  This is misleading because if you read from verse one you get the picture.  Before we meet the Lord, two things will happen.  1.  The falling away.  2.  The man of sin will be revealed.  This falling away came centuries ago, possibly at the time of Constantine, but probably began before.

The falling away was obvious then and ended up with the Pope and the RCC.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


2Th 2:3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness

It looks like a combination of all kinds of lie in order to make one big powerful delusion, All western media is supposed to be owned or influenced by only six companies including news channels, the education and public libraries is supposed to be the same, the subliminals and other mind control technologies are more advanced than they used to be, for example they can do synthetic telepathy now, it is all being brought together via secret societies, The Jesuits it would seem being the mother of them all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Why do we always look for future "end times" fulfilment of Bible prophecy? Paul was writing to the Thessalonians, who knew something we don't. We should of course look to the Scriptures for ourselves & our own situation for principles of Satan's activity, & how the believers responsed. But we should not lift prophecy out of its context, unless there is clear guidance in the prophecy, or in the NT writers application of the prophecy.  

The great lie in the time of Acts was the rejection by the Jewish leaders of Jesus as the Christ. Despite the progress of the Gospel, & the conversion of many thousands of Jews, the rejection of Jesus as Lord & Christ  intensified. That "falling away" intensified despite the faithful witness of the believers in Jerusalem  & Judea. The presence of the Jerusalem Christians delayed the destruction for nearly 40 years - the lifetime of "this generation - but the Olivet prophecy of Jesus would be fulfilled. 

The believers saw the signs Jesus had warned them of, & fled the city before its destruction. Lot was called out of Sodom before the fire fell.

We must apply that situation to ourselves. The "great lie" is still maintained by Jew, Muslim, the world in general &, sadly many who claim to be Christians. Our world is under sentence of destruction, yet with the Gospel of salvation by Christ proclaimed. Let's read on:

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Note simply that "believe a lie" is contrary to "belief of the truth." When the truth is rejected, everything is a lie. The great truth is Gospel truth, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 
Stand therefore ..... Eph. 6:10-20 

 

 

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...
  • Members
On 6/1/2015, 12:41:37, Covenanter said:

Why do we always look for future "end times" fulfilment of Bible prophecy? Paul was writing to the Thessalonians, who knew something we don't. We should of course look to the Scriptures for ourselves & our own situation for principles of Satan's activity, & how the believers responsed. But we should not lift prophecy out of its context, unless there is clear guidance in the prophecy, or in the NT writers application of the prophecy.  

The great lie in the time of Acts was the rejection by the Jewish leaders of Jesus as the Christ. Despite the progress of the Gospel, & the conversion of many thousands of Jews, the rejection of Jesus as Lord & Christ  intensified. That "falling away" intensified despite the faithful witness of the believers in Jerusalem  & Judea. The presence of the Jerusalem Christians delayed the destruction for nearly 40 years - the lifetime of "this generation - but the Olivet prophecy of Jesus would be fulfilled. 

The believers saw the signs Jesus had warned them of, & fled the city before its destruction. Lot was called out of Sodom before the fire fell.

We must apply that situation to ourselves. The "great lie" is still maintained by Jew, Muslim, the world in general &, sadly many who claim to be Christians. Our world is under sentence of destruction, yet with the Gospel of salvation by Christ proclaimed. Let's read on:

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Note simply that "believe a lie" is contrary to "belief of the truth." When the truth is rejected, everything is a lie. The great truth is Gospel truth, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 
Stand therefore ..... Eph. 6:10-20 

Great point Ian. Sorry you are not here to keep up the good work of encouragement to follow the truth.

Many times you have spoken truth to those who will just not listen.

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...
  • Members
On 3/22/2015 at 8:39 PM, Genevanpreacher said:

So...what's the lie?

In 2 Thessalonians 2:10-15, you may be able to discern the lie with His help by seeing what the reminder is in verses 13-15 that reproves that lie in verses 10-12.  

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Since the reminder is about when a believer had received the sanctification of the Holy Spirit & the belief of the truth at the hearing of the gospel, then the lie is thinking a believer can receive the Holy Ghost "again"... as in seeking another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues of which I point out, never comes with interpretation.

That's the lie:  errant believers thinking they can receive the Holy Ghost "again" after a sign.  What they are experiencing is why many are falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils.  1 Timothy 4:1-2

The irony is that as errant believers tote this other calling; it can happen again after another sensational sign in the flesh like falling down ( slain in the "Spirit ) or "holy laughter" movement.  So how many times does a believer need to be filled with the Holy Spirit supernaturally?

Only once at the hearing of the gospel which they had believed.  That is the faith we are to keep as there is no other calling:  Ephesians 4:4-6;  no other drink of the One Spirit to get any gifts ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ) as Jesus keeps His promise for all those that come to Him that they are filled ( John 6:35 ) & thus we shall hunger & thirst no more.  

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is the testimony that we are to have;  always filled means saved.  There is no receiving Jesus Christ nor the Holy Spirit again as warned in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 because of our faith is that He is in us 2 Corinthians 13:5. 

We are to sow to the fruits of the Spirit as opposing sowing to the works of the flesh but if any believer experience what they believe is the Holy Spirit coming over them again when He was already in them when they had first believed;  then that later encounter was not the Holy Spirit.

But this is the falling away from the faith as prophesied as this was happening even back in Paul's days as that iniquity was already at work in the churches back then.  2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 testifies that believers are to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us, but we are to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers, because they are still His even though they are at risk of being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes. 

So the lie is believing you can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sensational sign in the flesh, even tongues which comes with no interpretation, which God will permit that strong delusion to occur on believers for believing that lie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

A big enough lie can consist of many interlocking lies.  If one speaks of, say, (as is being discussed) it is to believe the antichrist to be the Messiah, then that one lie would involve many lies: Jesus isn't the Saviour, The Jews are not His people, The bible is false, (and that involves a whoooole lotta lies), etc. How many lies could we place just under the lie of the antichrist's claim as messiah?

So it could be 'a lie', (follow antichrist as messiah), but still be many lies in total. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
14 minutes ago, Golgotha said:

In 2 Thessalonians 2:10-15, you may be able to discern the lie with His help by seeing what the reminder is in verses 13-15 that reproves that lie in verses 10-12.  

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Since the reminder is about when a believer had received the sanctification of the Holy Spirit & the belief of the truth at the hearing of the gospel, then the lie is thinking a believer can receive the Holy Ghost "again"... as in seeking another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues of which I point out, never comes with interpretation.

That's the lie:  errant believers thinking they can receive the Holy Ghost "again" after a sign.  What they are experiencing is why many are falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils.  1 Timothy 4:1-2

The irony is that as errant believers tote this other calling; it can happen again after another sensational sign in the flesh like falling down ( slain in the "Spirit ) or "holy laughter" movement.  So how many times does a believer need to be filled with the Holy Spirit supernaturally?

Only once at the hearing of the gospel which they had believed.  That is the faith we are to keep as there is no other calling:  Ephesians 4:4-6;  no other drink of the One Spirit to get any gifts ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ) as Jesus keeps His promise for all those that come to Him that they are filled ( John 6:35 ) & thus we shall hunger & thirst no more.  

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is the testimony that we are to have;  always filled means saved.  There is no receiving Jesus Christ nor the Holy Spirit again as warned in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 because of our faith is that He is in us 2 Corinthians 13:5

We are to sow to the fruits of the Spirit as opposing sowing to the works of the flesh but if any believer experience what they believe is the Holy Spirit coming over them again when He was already in them when they had first believed;  then that later encounter was not the Holy Spirit.

But this is the falling away from the faith as prophesied as this was happening even back in Paul's days as that iniquity was already at work in the churches back then.  2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 testifies that believers are to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us, but we are to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers, because they are still His even though they are at risk of being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes. 

So the lie is believing you can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sensational sign in the flesh, even tongues which comes with no interpretation, which God will permit that strong delusion to occur on believers for believing that lie.

Golgotha~

While I agree with your basic concept in being filled and filled and filled over and over again, and the nutty signs and wonders movement as being false, I don't kow that I agree with it being the answer to the given question. Welcome, by the way.

I believe, according to the immediate context, that the lie would be a complete, continual rejection of Jesus as Christ and Saviour, because the reason FOR being given over to delusion is because, beforehand, they refused to believe the truth, and rather had pleasure in unrighteousness.  It MIGHT go hand-in-hand with Rom 1, concerning those given over to a reprobate mind, because they had rejected God and turned the Creator into a creature, and worshipped the creation rather than the Creator. Their rejection of Him caused the Lord to turn them over to their filthy minds more fully, and here in our scripture, they rejected the truth because they desired pleasure over righteousness, so they are given over to believe a lie, ie, to continue to reject Christ with no choice to ever change, and thus, to accept the antichrist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...