Members pcoble1 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2015 John, that is hitting the nail on the head. That is exactly what I got caught up in. We had good preachers from around the country preach at our church. Back in the day, Curtis Hudson, Dr. Lee ROBinson, Carl Hatch. My pastor visited Indiana and everything went down hill after that. Changes, preaching style, standards, (not biblical standards) his opinion. A trip to Texas and back did me in. He took the church to a bondage level. If you showed up to a bus meeting without a tie, you got raked over the coals. Just saying. I left and went to two other churches. After being there for awhile I realized it was the same thing going on, just different ways. I even questioned about the guys wearing shorts. Pastor said it was OK. Before you would be dismissed from any church function. Independent is an understatement. It was still legalistic. There is so much that I have experienced. That is why I wrote the book. I Love the Lord, I am not angry, I believe in KJV, Soul winning, Bus Ministry, Godly standards, God honoring music. I just don't like the bondage so many preachers and churches place on it's members that does not come from God's Word. Example No singing specials without being a member of the choir. (It did not matter that I was running sound board for choir and could not be in it) No saying Amen if you are not living a perfect life. White Shirt required if you go on the platform, not to mention a tie always. Ladies must wear dresses, of course that is not a bad idea, but if you came in medical scrubs from work, you could not do anything. Hair, no facial hair, hair must not touch ears. Ladies could not have short hair. Miss going out Soul winning, you were confronted and made to feel guilty. Bible, if you had tabs, you were made fun of. You were told you did not know where the books of the bible were. There are so many things I could write a book, wait....I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 John, that is hitting the nail on the head. That is exactly what I got caught up in. We had good preachers from around the country preach at our church. Back in the day, Curtis Hudson, Dr. Lee ROBinson, Carl Hatch. My pastor visited Indiana and everything went down hill after that. Changes, preaching style, standards, (not biblical standards) his opinion. A trip to Texas and back did me in. He took the church to a bondage level. If you showed up to a bus meeting without a tie, you got raked over the coals. Just saying. I left and went to two other churches. After being there for awhile I realized it was the same thing going on, just different ways. I even questioned about the guys wearing shorts. Pastor said it was OK. Before you would be dismissed from any church function. Independent is an understatement. It was still legalistic. There is so much that I have experienced. That is why I wrote the book. I Love the Lord, I am not angry, I believe in KJV, Soul winning, Bus Ministry, Godly standards, God honoring music. I just don't like the bondage so many preachers and churches place on it's members that does not come from God's Word. Example No singing specials without being a member of the choir. (It did not matter that I was running sound board for choir and could not be in it) No saying Amen if you are not living a perfect life. White Shirt required if you go on the platform, not to mention a tie always. Ladies must wear dresses, of course that is not a bad idea, but if you came in medical scrubs from work, you could not do anything. Hair, no facial hair, hair must not touch ears. Ladies could not have short hair. Miss going out Soul winning, you were confronted and made to feel guilty. Bible, if you had tabs, you were made fun of. You were told you did not know where the books of the bible were. There are so many things I could write a book, wait....I did. Sounds incredible to me. I never lived in North Carolina before. What region of N.C. is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 2, 2015 Members Share Posted February 2, 2015 John, that is hitting the nail on the head. That is exactly what I got caught up in. We had good preachers from around the country preach at our church. Back in the day, Curtis Hudson, Dr. Lee ROBinson, Carl Hatch. My pastor visited Indiana and everything went down hill after that. Changes, preaching style, standards, (not biblical standards) his opinion. A trip to Texas and back did me in. He took the church to a bondage level. If you showed up to a bus meeting without a tie, you got raked over the coals. Just saying. I left and went to two other churches. After being there for awhile I realized it was the same thing going on, just different ways. I even questioned about the guys wearing shorts. Pastor said it was OK. Before you would be dismissed from any church function. Independent is an understatement. It was still legalistic. There is so much that I have experienced. That is why I wrote the book. I Love the Lord, I am not angry, I believe in KJV, Soul winning, Bus Ministry, Godly standards, God honoring music. I just don't like the bondage so many preachers and churches place on it's members that does not come from God's Word. Example No singing specials without being a member of the choir. (It did not matter that I was running sound board for choir and could not be in it) No saying Amen if you are not living a perfect life. White Shirt required if you go on the platform, not to mention a tie always. Ladies must wear dresses, of course that is not a bad idea, but if you came in medical scrubs from work, you could not do anything. Hair, no facial hair, hair must not touch ears. Ladies could not have short hair. Miss going out Soul winning, you were confronted and made to feel guilty. Bible, if you had tabs, you were made fun of. You were told you did not know where the books of the bible were. There are so many things I could write a book, wait....I did. I know of a couple people who attended such a church in Georgia or Alabama (I think it was near the line). They had many such rules and unhelpful, unloving ways of enforcing the rules. So long as one followed the rules, everyone put up a loving front, but let one step outside the least of the rules and the attacks were quick and sharp. However, if one were wealthy, a prominent member of the community, and especially if they gave a lot of money to the church, there could be allowances for them on biblical violations, especially if they were still following the church rules. One such case involved a man who kept the church rules (dressed accordingly, wore his hair as they said, kept his face shaven, crossed his church t's) yet he began having an affair. The man's wife tried to get the pastor to speak with her husband about the matter but the pastor accused her of being a bad wife or her husband wouldn't be having an affair! After many attempts by the wife to deal with the matter biblically, all while being attacked at church, her husband openly moved out, filed for divorce and moved in with his "girl friend" and began bringing her to church with him. The wife made one final appeal to the pastor with the result being the pastor told the women of the church to shun the wife. The wife was basically run out of the church, her husband got the divorce, married the one he had the affair with, and kept giving those big donations to the church. A very messed up situation. I've heard of similar in a few other churches but have no direct knowledge of those. There are bad churches all around, but there are still many good churches. There are plenty of bad pastors, even many unsaved pastors, but there are still many good pastors around. In some cases a church member may be able to help correct a wayward church, in others the Lord will lead them away. Some pastors/churches are open to Holy Ghost correction while others are intent upon doing things their own way. We have to follow the leading of the Lord as to what church we attend, what pastor we hear. Several members on this board have had bad experiences in certain churches and with certain pastors. The thing is we can't allow such to keep us from finding and attending a good church. We also have to guard against bitterness and guard against causing further harm in how we deal with such. I thank God for our good church home and our pastors. I'm also thankful for those I've attended in the past, and also thankful the Lord led me out of a couple others. pcoble1 and Miss Daisy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pcoble1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 Thank you John. What you have been saying sounds like it comes from your heart. I apologize if I made anyone upset. Thank you again for your comment. I will trust the Lord to guide me to the place where I can worship and serve Him. I wish I was close to your church. You have been very kind and understanding of my hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) PcOBle1, As of yet you have not answered the question asked by, "I am Chief." What region is the church in? I might also ask, as so many of the other brethren are thinking: What is the name of the church that Phil colbe thinks is legalistic? Besides asking you to wear a white shirt and a tie, what is so leagalistic about it? What is the name of the current independent Baptist Church that you are attedning? I am sorry that you felt in bondage at the, yet, unamned, in your terms, legalistic,church and unnamed, in your term, legalistic, pastor. All of us have emotional prOBlems and it the responsibility of the pastor to help each individual member. The Lord Jesus does not want any of His children have emotional bondage. The Lord gave me victory in my own personal life over my own emotional distresses. And, He used a godly indepedent pastor in doing so. God works through preachers preaching the word. I did read your introduction to your book, "Breaking the Bondage from Independent Baptist," for sell on Amazon. com. The introduction was infammatory towards independent Baptist churches and openly gave the impression that the independent Baptist Movement was legalistic. After reading the introduction I am somewhat thinking, again I may be in error due to your unwillingness to answer legitamate questions, that you are not a true independent Baptist. And, in my own sometimes erroneous thinking, you may just want to cause dissension within the independent Baptist ranks. Again, what is the name of the church and the name of the pastor. A true spiritual watchman, Isaiah 21:6, Ezekiel 33, will warn the people of legalistic churches by name and not by insinuation. Especially in a public forum as the internet. I ask this as a brother in the Lord Jesus. the Lord Jesus, in Matthew 18:15-17, commanded us to first go to the brother privately, then with two brothers, and if the individual does not repent, as you claim this unnamed pastor did not repent, than go to the church publicly. Did you follow the commandments of the Lord Jesus? Paul the Apostle further stated, "Against an elder [pastor] receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses." 2 Timothy 5:19 My brother, did you have another witness that this unnamed pastor is legalistic? Is this second brother mentioned further in the book? If you do not have another witness then you are deliberately disOBeying the Holy Spirit inspired command of the Lord Jesus Christ as Paul the Apostle wrote and you are causing dissension among the brethren. Edited February 3, 2015 by AlanTaiwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) I used to know a Philip COBle in Julian many years ago. Well, actually just an acquaintance. He and his wife Lisa were good people. Are you him? Edited February 3, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 While it's prOBably known, it should also be noted that situations such as brought up in this thread are not restricted to occurring only in IFB churches. Over the years I've known of several SBC churches which were in that category and have heard of others. I've even heard of a couple of Lutheran and Methodist churches which would fit in this category. I bring this up because so often, at least online and in the mainstream media, when this issue comes up it seems to be confined to "fundamentalist churches" as if such only happens in IFB churches and most often it's portrayed as if such is the case in most, if not all IFB churches, which isn't true at all. This, with regards to many online things and what the mainstream media puts forth, is often coupled with IFBs being yoked together with off the wall cults and churches (such as Westboro) as if we are all one and the same which, again, isn't true at all. MountainChristian, Miss Daisy and Alan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 Real good post by and some spiritual wisdom by John81 that I think all of us can learn from. Thank you for your insight concerning the history, and scope, of the issue on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Popular Post heartstrings Posted February 3, 2015 Members Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) I left my IFB church, of some 26 years membership, for some of the same reasons. When I left, I began attending a SBC church and later joined. I too am strictly KJB, dress right, spit white and I try to "live right" and I do not agree with some of the liberal ways of the SBC's but also can recognize God's presence among people who love God because I have Jesus living in my heart. I am not recommending a SBC church by any stretch of imagination either. If I had the liberty to do so, I would be in a IFB church right now but my only other choice is an "IFB" church whose [pastor is divorced and remarried. That's between him and God but I wouldn't feel right as a member there. Anyway, I never accused my former IFB church, by name, on this forum. I also recommend that you don't do it. I have also never badmouthed my former church to my present pastor or anyone at my present church for that matter. I will tell you that the legalism you speak of does exist in some IFB churches because I have experienced it myself and heard some of it from visiting preachers from various parts of the South. Thankfully now, no one "preaches" against my ungodly beard (which God made). But what really becomes serious is when you get slandered behind your back, they try to use your family's reverence for the pastor in order to manipulate you into submission to whatever they want at the time, and they begin to use scriptures such as "OBey them that have the rule over you" and "touch not mine anointed" as a fear tactic for their own personal benefit. The last straw, for me, was when the latest pastor wanted my daughter for his son and did not want to abide my courting rules (her father) which were a little more strict than his. He ended up threatening me, lying about me and talking behind my back. "Worldliness" to some, is only found in "not wearing ties", wearing beards, , long hair on men, short hair on women, jewelry, wire rimmed glasses, pants on women etc etc but REAL spiritual worldliness is also found in pride, domination, manipulation and control...... See Matthew 20:25-28 What hurt me later, was bitterness. Don't let that happen to you. Look around, recognize the blessings of God, think on good things, and go on for Jesus. There are some good IFB churches but no church is perfect. God bless! Edited February 3, 2015 by heartstrings HappyChristian, Miss Daisy, pcoble1 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators OLD fashioned preacher Posted February 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 3, 2015 I have also never badmouthed my former church to my present pastor or anyone at my present church for that matter. This shows the mature core that enabled you to stay here even when the claws and fangs were out (which yours were several times at the least misconception of an alluded attack for the first 6 months following your arrival here). It also helped in your battle with bitterness. As you (basically) said, If there are as many as 600 IBCs that are wicked, BEWARE, but considering there are 9000+ IBCs in the US alone 600 wouldn't make all (or most) dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 I don't know exactly what you're getting at but the action I took in what you quoted above (I have never badmouthed my former church to my present pastor....) was because of my own personal conviction and had nothing to do with anything anyone said on this forum. Still is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators OLD fashioned preacher Posted February 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 3, 2015 I don't know exactly what you're getting at but the action I took in what you quoted above (I have never badmouthed my former church to my present pastor....) was because of my own personal conviction and had nothing to do with anything anyone said on this forum. Still is. Which reflected a maturity on your part (as opposed to what many react with) and kept you from leaving this forum at times when you felt (as measured by some of your replies) you were being attacked or belittled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Thank you for the kind words, Brother. COBle from NC, Do you live in the mountains? I must be a hillbilly at heart. The last time were up that way was on vacation in Sevierville TN. On Sunday morning I found a little Independent Baptist church at the foot of English Mountain and the preacher, in overalls, preached from the Holy King James Bible. That night we were invited to sing a couple of specials and then to a "pickin" birthday party in the hills the next night. God was welcome in that church and the birthday party. I will never forget that. Loved it! I know it hurts man, but remember: we wrestle not against flesh and blood........and God is faithful. Philippians4:4-8 Edited February 3, 2015 by heartstrings John81, pcoble1 and Alan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pcoble1 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2015 Alan, I am not going to name names. It would not be the proper thing to do. What benefit would that be to you? I do not want to hurt brothers in Christ. Just because they have gone astray does not mean they should be blasted. To answer your question about having another brother to confirm whether the pastor is legalistic, yes. His son! His son confronted him. When the son confronted him his dad would not have anything to do with him or his children. You will just have to take my word for it. If you purchase my book, Breaking the Bondage from Independent Baptist, you will get the full picture. I am not going to go into detail again about the legalistic, bondage ridden church. Again I stress there are a lot of good Independent Baptist Churches. Not many in the central part of North Carolina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pcoble1 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2015 Alan, I want you to understand. I am not angry at Independent Baptist. Chill Brother. I am expressing what went on in some churches in central North Carolina. As far as names of pastors or churches. Sorry. I do not think that would be wise. As far as more witnesses to the legalism. Yes. The son of one of the pastors had to leave his dad's church because of the legalism. I did not write the book to express anger. You have missed the point. Maybe I should have expressed it better. One prOBlem I have with anyone is to get so angry that someone else has a different point of view. That was also very prevalent in the churches. What happened to love your brother. I love the former pastors of the legalistic churches. I just know that they are not teaching God's Word as it is. I will wipe off the dust and move on. I do have the right to warn others. Alan, I hope you get my point. You seem very angry. You should take some points from John's comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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