Way Of Life - Angry Birds - The Real Issue

[RSS Robot]

AT THE VERY TIME WHEN INDEPENDENT BAPTIST PREACHERS SHOULD BE DOUBLING THEIR GUARD AGAINST COMPROMISE AND ERROR AND SPEAKING OUT AGAINST IT, THE MOST INFLUENTIAL LEADERS ARE SAYING STAY ON THE GOSPEL, DON’T WASTE TIME “CHASING BUZZARDS,” AND ABOVE ALL DON’T LISTEN TO THE “ANGRY BIRDS.” 

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[MountainChristian]

Can any of you point to one letter where Cloud receives and accepts correction? He loves to give correction but so far I can't think of one letter where he receives correction. 

[Ukulelemike]

Perhaps he has, but has done so privately, I don't know.

 

What he is talking about, however, is a real issue. Here's an example from my own receny life:

 

A couple weeks ago, I chose, perhaps foolishly, to show the movie, "God is Real." I watched it beforehand, so I knew the prOBlems in it, but I believed the core issue: the willingness to stand up for the Lord despite the potential consequences, as well as the importance to know WHAT you believe and WHY you believe it, were important enough to warrant it.

 

Afterwards, as discussed the merits of the issues, and then I spent some taim talking about the prOBlems I had, (CCM being prevalent, worldly, carnal Christians shown as the norm-one scene with one of the Duck Dynasty guys and his wife-the man with unbiblical long hair, and the wife dressed extremely immodestly), one believer going to the store to shop for wine to serve at her unsaved boyfriend's cocktail party, the scruffy pastor of the huge, unnamed non-denomination church, the gospel without mention of sin or repentance, and, again, the ever-present Newsboys CCM group who somehow, in some form or another, makes it into almost every scene, be it in a tshirt, poster, or the final 10 minute concert.)

 

So I wanted to make clear that these issues proved some prOBlems because it shows what really tends to be the most carnal, worldly version of Christianity, the one least likely to give the gospel or speak out about Christ, as being both the norm in Christianity, and really then, the best.

 

So, as I spoke about this, on of the men in the church began to berate me for being unloving toward the lost. Now, this guy really likes to make his point and will talk over everyone until his point is made. Finally, I had to get behind the pulpit, which I had not been, and raised my voice to pator level, and began to explain the truth to him, that we wer not dealing with the lost, to whom we owe nothig but the gospel in love, but with believers, who should know better-who spout songs about holiness while living anything but holy lives in speech and deed. I went on for about ten minutes trying to explain this, but the basic point was, because I spoke about the error I witnessed, according to the Bible, all he could see was hatred, and somehow, that toward the lost, who were never a part of the conversation. I told him it was my responsibility as pastor, to warn the church about error when I see it, to keep them safe from it, and that if I didn't do it, I should not be their pastor.

Anyways I think I got through to him, but this is so typical: when one calls out error, even in love, one is always accused of hating the other person, hence the Angry Birds-whose sole goal is to destroy the walls of the other.

I see it too often, in my ministry, in Clouds, in others, that to point out error, biblically, is to be hateful. And it just aint so.

[John81]

Try pointing out to IFBs that their wives cropped short hair is unbiblical and see some real angry birds and hate!

[MountainChristian]

Is Cloud right 100% of the time? If not, where are the letters saying he is wrong? He can dish it out but can he receive it? Has he become like the "Sword of the Lord" they are always right and everyone else is always wrong. 

[Ukulelemike]

I don't think the issue is, Is he always right, but what are the arguments being made against him? My wife sent him an email once where she was actually in agreement with him, and he shot back at her that since she was a woman she had no right to instruct him, amdnthat was that, even though she wasn't. I think he doesn't always take the time to actually read and consider the emails sent to him, but sometimes assumes they are something else and disregards is.
Other times many arguments are based on emotion and little else.
I'm not trying to defend him, I just take his good work, and he has a lot of that, and use it. He is an imperfect man like the rest of us. And yes, he doesn't seem good at accepting good disagreement and dispute.

[Alimantado]

My wife sent him an email once where she was actually in agreement with him, and he shot back at her that since she was a woman she had no right to instruct him, and that was that, even though she wasn't.

 

She wasn't a woman? 

 

[Alimantado]

If you're doing a syndicated newsletter and you give correction at all then of course you're going to appear to be giving it and not accepting it, unless you start pinging out newsletter editions saying "this week I received mail x,y,z and I accept x,y and disagree with z"--not good if your readers want a short and snappy news feed.

[Salyan]

Yah, but if the newsletters publish an opposing letter, they don't bother writing a play-by-play on how the letter-writer was wrong to oppose them. I hope. I'm getting awfully disappointed in Br. Cloud.

[John81]

I don't think the issue is, Is he always right, but what are the arguments being made against him? My wife sent him an email once where she was actually in agreement with him, and he shot back at her that since she was a woman she had no right to instruct him, amdnthat was that, even though she wasn't. I think he doesn't always take the time to actually read and consider the emails sent to him, but sometimes assumes they are something else and disregards is.
Other times many arguments are based on emotion and little else.
I'm not trying to defend him, I just take his good work, and he has a lot of that, and use it. He is an imperfect man like the rest of us. And yes, he doesn't seem good at accepting good disagreement and dispute.

I had a similar encounter with him several years ago. In one of his writings he mad an inaccurate statement and also an inaccurate assumption. I sent him an email citing the facts which he could easily check for himself with the only intent being to help him make his presentation accurate. It was a simple email, no attacks or accusations against him, just a short note and the citations and links.

 

What I received in return was a scathing attack email and him telling me facts didn't matter and then declaring certain lost people didn't deserve to have his writings.

 

I agree he has some good material out there, especially his older stuff, but he lacks a teachable heart and fails to show love and kindness towards those who either disagree with him or point out an error.

 

With regards to the "prOBlem with women" thing: last year a nearby church advanced a member to elder status and he decided to take over their VBS program. At a meeting for all those involved he seemed rather dismissive to the women and someone finally pointed that out to him. He then proceeded to say women shouldn't have a voice in the church and it really didn't matter if the VBS teachers were all women, their thoughts on how VBS was going to run didn't matter.