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Concerning Daniel 9:24-27


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I'm trying to understand the reasoning ....

Gabriel outlines the prophecy in Dan. 9:24

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The "Holy of Holies" (qodesh-qodesh) doesn't even exist at this time.  There are clear passages in the N.T. that state that the (3rd) Temple must be built.  It is this temple that the False-Messiah (man of sin) will pollute with his presence, proclaiming that He is God.

 

The Second Temple was polluted/desecrated by the actions of Antiochus Epiphanes.in 168 BC and was later cleansed by what we refer to as Hanukkah.  The term "most Holy" is the Hebrew qodesh-qodesh  (ie: Holy-Holy, or Holy of Holies).

 

In the context of Hanukkah, Jews clearly understand the necessity of the ceremonial cleansing of the Holy Place & the Holy of Holies in order to rededicate the Temple.  It's very easy to understand Daniel's meaning here.  Jesus cannot reenter the Temple to serve as Priest and King until the place is cleansed

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The "Holy of Holies" (qodesh-qodesh) doesn't even exist at this time.  There are clear passages in the N.T. that state that the (3rd) Temple must be built.  It is this temple that the False-Messiah (man of sin) will pollute with his presence, proclaiming that He is God.

 

The Second Temple was polluted/desecrated by the actions of Antiochus Epiphanes.in 168 BC and was later cleansed by what we refer to as Hanukkah.  The term "most Holy" is the Hebrew qodesh-qodesh  (ie: Holy-Holy, or Holy of Holies).

 

What or who is holier than The Lord Jesus Christ.  He was anointed at His baptism.

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I'm trying to understand the reasoning ....

Gabriel outlines the prophecy in Dan. 9:24

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

That, surely, is a summary of the saving work of Jesus at Calvary. The idea of purifying Israel some other way during a yet future 70th week destroys the NT teaching of Jesus FINISHED saving work. It amounts to another gospel, which is NOT another. Gal. 1:6-9

 

You are making Gabriel preach another gospel. 

 

An interpretation system that requires separation of weeks 69 & 70 by 2000 years must be called into question.

This is why so many of us are simply worn out with attempting to have any rational discussion with you and your cohorts on the subject of prophecy.  

Pastor Markle did an excellent jOB of explaining our position on the 70th week. 

You have not posted ONE RESPONSE to his very detailed explanation.  

 

Now, 

You have accused us of preaching "another gospel."

I preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the only salvation for the lost sinner.

I am sure Pastor Markle preaches the same gospel.

 

Thus,

YOU HAVE FALSELY ACCUSED US.

 

The way God deals with a NATION (i.e. Israel) in a corporate manner is far different from how God deals with each individual within that nation.  The 70th week, which is yet future, is God's chastisement upon the corporate NATION of Israel, and then that corporate NATION of Israel is exalted during the yet future 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ upon this present earth.

 

Your (private) interpretation completely ignores, overlooks, dismisses, and destroys over 50% of the OT prophecies concerning the corporate NATION of Israel, as they have not yet been fulfilled, literally, in their entirety.

 

In Christ,

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I'm trying to understand the reasoning ....

Gabriel outlines the prophecy in Dan. 9:24

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

That, surely, is a summary of the saving work of Jesus at Calvary. The idea of purifying Israel some other way during a yet future 70th week destroys the NT teaching of Jesus FINISHED saving work. It amounts to another gospel, which is NOT another. Gal. 1:6-9

 

You are making Gabriel preach another gospel. 

 

An interpretation system that requires separation of weeks 69 & 70 by 2000 years must be called into question.

 

That question is a response to Scott's post - particularly points 1-6. 

 

This is why so many of us are simply worn out with attempting to have any rational discussion with you and your cohorts on the subject of prophecy.  

Pastor Markle did an excellent jOB of explaining our position on the 70th week. 

You have not posted ONE RESPONSE to his very detailed explanation.  

 

Now, 

You have accused us of preaching "another gospel."

I preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the only salvation for the lost sinner.

I am sure Pastor Markle preaches the same gospel.

 

Thus,

YOU HAVE FALSELY ACCUSED US.

 

The way God deals with a NATION (i.e. Israel) in a corporate manner is far different from how God deals with each individual within that nation.  The 70th week, which is yet future, is God's chastisement upon the corporate NATION of Israel, and then that corporate NATION of Israel is exalted during the yet future 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ upon this present earth.

 

Your (private) interpretation completely ignores, overlooks, dismisses, and destroys over 50% of the OT prophecies concerning the corporate NATION of Israel, as they have not yet been fulfilled, literally, in their entirety.

 

In Christ,

 

I reposted my response to DaveW in response to Scott's post. I have read it, several times. It would be unwieldy to post an in-line response, so I raise specific points. In this case, it seems clear that Dan. 9:24 speaks of 70 weeks as a specific period of time, & details the saving work of Christ.

 

I am happy that you & Scott "preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the only salvation for the lost sinner" but do not believe that ethnic, national Israel is a separate entity with what amounts to a Gospel distinct from that we preach to lost sinners today. Jew & Gentile together comprise the redeemed people of God, a holy nation.  

 

Gen. 12:3 Gen. 22:18 Isa. 49:5-6 1 Peter 2:4-10 

 

The promises & prophecies of the OT concerning Israel are fulfilled in & by Jesus Christ for all of Israel who respond to the Gospel preached in the name of Jesus, and for all believing Gentiles who are numbered with them. The only great separation at the end of time when Jesus returns for resurrection & judgement is of lost & saved. 

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I reposted my response to DaveW in response to Scott's post. I have read it, several times. It would be unwieldy to post an in-line response, so I raise specific points. In this case, it seems clear that Dan. 9:24 speaks of 70 weeks as a specific period of time, & details the saving work of Christ.

 

Pastor Markle explained v. 24 within the context of the entire passage.

Apparently you prefer to pluck the verse from its explanatory context.

(somehow, I am not surprised.)

 

I am happy that you & Scott "preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the only salvation for the lost sinner" but do not believe that ethnic, national Israel is a separate entity with what amounts to a Gospel distinct from that we preach to lost sinners today. Jew & Gentile together comprise the redeemed people of God, a holy nation.

 

The distinction that you are failing to comprehend is that the way God deals with a corporate nation - any nation, whether it be Jew or Gentile - is far different from the way God deals with an individual - any individual, Jew or Gentile.  An individual can experience the New Birth - salvation through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.  A nation as a corporate body cannot be "born again."  If the saved individuals within a given national entity have enough influence and political power, they can help shape that nation's moral compass and direction.  America is adrift because we have lost our Spiritual, Christian, and Biblical foundations.  God's judgement will fall on our nation because our nation as a corporate entity, beginning with our political leadership - federal, state, and local - have abandoned the Biblical plan for governing, and have encouraged unbiblical behaviour in exchange for more tax money and less blackmail - whether real or political.  

 

God's dealing with the corporate nation of Israel as a group is different from the Gentiles simply because God expects more from them - they are God's chosen people, they were given the written word of God, and they were given the promises and unconditional covenants of the OT, which have yet to be fulfilled in their entirety.

 

It is as clear as day for any Bible reader, UNLESS, you spiritualize everything into a NT context.  We are to "rightly DIVIDE" not "rightly GLUE" everything together.  Things that are not the same are not equal.  Israel is not the same as the Church.  Never has been - never will be.  And that is the basis of your confusion on end times prophecy.  We recognize that distinction.  You try to blend the two distinct entities together.

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I reposted my response to DaveW in response to Scott's post. I have read it, several times. It would be unwieldy to post an in-line response, so I raise specific points. In this case, it seems clear that Dan. 9:24 speaks of 70 weeks as a specific period of time, & details the saving work of Christ.

 

From my perspective, you have not made any direct attempts at responding to Pastor Markle's post.  Here is a tremendous opportunity for you to dissect his points, and allow him to respond to you in kind.  Your failure to have an open dialogue with him directly on this issue does not speak well of you, in my book.  I cannot for the life of me understand why you would pass up such a great opportunity...

 

I guess the same thing goes for Geneva and Invicta.

 

You guys simply cannot say that our position has not been presented clearly, thoroughly and Scripturally.  

So the next time this topic comes up, I will just put a link back to this forum and let you deal with it then.

 

:popcorn:

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From my perspective, you have not made any direct attempts at responding to Pastor Markle's post.  Here is a tremendous opportunity for you to dissect his points, and allow him to respond to you in kind.  Your failure to have an open dialogue with him directly on this issue does not speak well of you, in my book.  I cannot for the life of me understand why you would pass up such a great opportunity...

 

I guess the same thing goes for Geneva and Invicta.

 

You guys simply cannot say that our position has not been presented clearly, thoroughly and Scripturally.  

So the next time this topic comes up, I will just put a link back to this forum and let you deal with it then.

 

:popcorn:

 

I have been intending to answer the points in the OP, but as has been said it is a long post and will take a time to answer and I just have  not had time to post that. I will just make one point.

 

Why do you say the prince who is to come is still future, when the prince did come and his people did destroy the temple and the city?

 

Oh and another question.

 

What do you thing Paul meant when he said "All Israel will be saved"? 

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I have been intending to answer the points in the OP, but as has been said it is a long post and will take a time to answer and I just have  not had time to post that. I will just make one point.

 

Why do you say the prince who is to come is still future, when the prince did come and his people did destroy the temple and the city?

 

Oh and another question.

 

What do you thing Paul meant when he said "All Israel will be saved"? 

Can a prophecy be limited to only ONE fulfillment?  Can a prophecy have more than one application?  Certainly the Scriptures bear out the fact that some - many - prophecies have both a near and far application/fulfillment in mind.  

 

Considering the full scope of Pastor Markle's OP, it should be clear that the 70th week is set aside by itself, and as such, the events of that week are yet future.  There may have been partial fulfillments, which I would say are types or pictures of things yet to come.  Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, and the temple was destroyed, and so on.  However, these historical events do not necessitate a complete fulfillment of the prophecy.  The fact that not EVERYTHING was fulfilled in their entirety - that is, the entire scope of other OT prophecies that are related to these events - should be sufficient evidence for us to realize that whatever happened in 70 AD was NOT the COMPLETE fulfillment of the OT prophecies, but only a picture of something that is yet future.  

 

When Paul said, "all Israel shall be saved," he means that when the Lord returns visibly to this earth to establish His Kingdom, that all Israel will be saved - that is delivered - from the certain imminent destruction and genocide the Antichrist has in mind.  There will not be very many Jews left at the end of the 7 year Tribulation (the 70th week) because the Antichrist and his demonic government will be annihilating them left and right.  It will make Hitler's holocaust look like a picnic.  When Christ returns with His army (Rev. 19) He will destroy the Antichrist, and literally save Israel from certain destruction, and exalt them to the Head of All nations, with Jesus Christ HImself ruling from Jerusalem "with a rod of iron."  That is the literal reading of Scripture.

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Can a prophecy be limited to only ONE fulfillment?  Can a prophecy have more than one application?  Certainly the Scriptures bear out the fact that some - many - prophecies have both a near and far application/fulfillment in mind.  

 

Considering the full scope of Pastor Markle's OP, it should be clear that the 70th week is set aside by itself, and as such, the events of that week are yet future.  There may have been partial fulfillments, which I would say are types or pictures of things yet to come.  Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, and the temple was destroyed, and so on.  However, these historical events do not necessitate a complete fulfillment of the prophecy.  The fact that not EVERYTHING was fulfilled in their entirety - that is, the entire scope of other OT prophecies that are related to these events - should be sufficient evidence for us to realize that whatever happened in 70 AD was NOT the COMPLETE fulfillment of the OT prophecies, but only a picture of something that is yet future.  

 

When Paul said, "all Israel shall be saved," he means that when the Lord returns visibly to this earth to establish His Kingdom, that all Israel will be saved - that is delivered - from the certain imminent destruction and genocide the Antichrist has in mind.  There will not be very many Jews left at the end of the 7 year Tribulation (the 70th week) because the Antichrist and his demonic government will be annihilating them left and right.  It will make Hitler's holocaust look like a picnic.  When Christ returns with His army (Rev. 19) He will destroy the Antichrist, and literally save Israel from certain destruction, and exalt them to the Head of All nations, with Jesus Christ HImself ruling from Jerusalem "with a rod of iron."  That is the literal reading of Scripture.

 t the Jews will be restored to the church.  There is one church from Adam till Christ comes again. I believe that Christ will come again for salvation of the saints and Judgment on his enemies as in the quotes I posted from John's gospel regarding the last day.

 

See also 1 John 2:28

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From my perspective, you have not made any direct attempts at responding to Pastor Markle's post.  Here is a tremendous opportunity for you to dissect his points, and allow him to respond to you in kind.  Your failure to have an open dialogue with him directly on this issue does not speak well of you, in my book.  I cannot for the life of me understand why you would pass up such a great opportunity...

 

I guess the same thing goes for Geneva and Invicta.

 

You guys simply cannot say that our position has not been presented clearly, thoroughly and Scripturally.  

So the next time this topic comes up, I will just put a link back to this forum and let you deal with it then.

 

:popcorn:

 

I have been busy with winter stuff and church. But thanks for thinking of me while I am away. Speaks well of you.

I intend on posting sometime soon. Have more important things than revealing false views of scripture online right now.

 

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

 

 
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
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Quote:
"I intend on posting sometime soon. Have more important things than revealing false views of scripture online right now."

Well we have seen Covey reveal his false views, and Invicta post some confusingly disjointed reference to his - can't wait for the details of yours.

:lol:

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(Note:  This posting is somewhat lengthy; however, those who generally follow my posts will not find this to be much of a surprise.)

 

Concerning Daniel 9:24-27 –

I propose to look at the overall context, focusing first on v. 24

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

 

As the context of Daniel 9 reveals, this prophetic utterance was delivered unto Daniel, who had been confessing the sins of his people Israel and praying for the Lord’s mercy upon his people Israel.  Indeed, when the angel Gabriel delivered this prophetic utterance unto Daniel, he specifically indicated that the focus of its revelation concerned Daniel’s people Israel and Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem, as per the opening line of verse 24 – “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy [that is – Daniel’s] people and upon thy [that is – Daniel’s] holy city [Jerusalem].”  Furthermore, the angel revealed that these “seventy weeks” were determined by the Lord God upon Daniel’s people, the Israelites, and upon Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem, for a six-fold purpose as signaled by the six infinitive phrases that complete verse 24. 

 

Daniel has prayed in response to Jeremiah's prophecy Jer. 29:10-14 concerning the exile of Israel. Notice Jer. 29:14 preceded by Jer. 29:12-13 

12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. 13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

But that promised return did not provide for a glorious restoration of the kingdom. There was never another king, & it was decades before the High Priest could officiate in the rebuilt temple. Gabriel's prophecy looked forward to Messiah coming. Those returning would be rebuilding the city & temple for Messiah 70x7 years ahead, & they were less than whole-hearted in their efforts, as the many post-exile books make clear. Gabriel warns of troublous times.

 

Jesus visited the temple as a baby, then from the age of 12, and came to claim it at the beginning of his ministry. John 2:13-17

 

John the baptist would recognise the Messiah by the Holy Spirit descending on him. John 1:33 That was a visible & extraordinary anointing, corresponding to the ceremonial washing & oil anointing of priests. Exo. 29:1-7 When Jesus was asked his authority for cleansing the temple, he appealed to his baptism. That gave him legal priestly authority. Mat. 21:23-27

 

The priests & Levites apparently expected Christ, Elijah, & that prophet to baptise. John 1:19-27 The Pharisees & Sadducees got a dreadful warning of the wrath to come when they came to John.  Mat. 3:7-10 They refused his baptism.

 

The Jews would have had in mind Moses' prophecy of the Messiah. Deu. 18:15-19 They would also been expectantly looking for the 69th  70th week to begin. There had been extraordinary stories at his birth, & they had met this 12-y-o in the temple.

 

Taking Dan. 9:24-27 as a whole, we have the coming of the Messiah, a declaration of his saving purpose, his rejection, & the consequences of that rejection.

 

Dan. 9:24 echoes Isaiah 53:1-12 . We all accept Isaiah's wonderful prophecy of the suffering Servant.   

 

This six-fold purpose of the Lord our God concerning Daniel’s people, the Israelites, and Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem, are as follows:

 

1.  “To finish the transgression” – Herein the word “transgression” is singular, indicating that it refers unto the entire rebellion of the Israelites against the Lord their God as a single unit of sinful fault.  Indeed, the Hebrew word that is translated by the English word “transgression” indicates a breaking away (or, departure) from a relationship or covenant with another.  Thus these “seventy weeks” are determined by the Lord God in order to bring about a completion to the sinful departure of the Israelites away from Him.  As such, we could expect that after these “seventy weeks” are concluded, the Israelites will never again depart from the Lord.

 

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 

 

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

2.  “To make an end of sins” – Herein the word “sins” is plural, indicating that it refers unto the individual activities of sin that the Israelites might commit against the Lord their God.  Thus these “seventy weeks” are determined by the Lord God in order to bring about a completion to the sinful activities of the Israelites against Him.  As such, we could expect that after these “seventy weeks “ are concluded, the Israelites will never again commit sins against the Lord.

 

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

 

3.  “To make reconciliation for iniquity” – Herein the word “reconciliation” indicates the ideas of atonement and forgiveness and of reconciliation thereby.  Thus these “seventy weeks” are determined by the Lord God in order to bring about His forgiveness upon the Israelites for their sinful departure from Him and for their sinful activities against Him, and to bring about thereby the reconciliation of the Israelites unto Himself and unto His blessed fellowship.

 

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

 

4.  “To bring in everlasting righteousness” – Herein the phrase “everlasting righteousness” reveals the spiritual condition into which the Lord God intends to bring the Israelites through His work of reconciliation.  He intends to bring them into a spiritual condition of “everlasting righteousness,” not into a condition of righteousness from which they might again fall, but into a condition of righteousness from which they will never fall again.  Indeed, this is the spiritual condition into which the Lord God will bring the Israelites at the completion of these “seventy weeks.”

 

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

 

5.  “To seal up the vision and prophecy” – This phrase appears to indicate that all of the Lord’s prophetic utterances concerning the Israelites (especially concerning His judgments upon the Israelites) will be brought to their conclusion through the completion of these “seventy weeks.”

 

Basically in agreement but there's more. The fulfilment of prophecy gives the seal of approval to the prophet. Deu. 18:21-22 Jesus' discourses on the Emmaus road & with the disciples showed the fulfilment of OT prophecy in him. Luke 24:25-27 & Luke 24:44-49 Notice also John 6:27

 

6.  “To anoint the most Holy” – Herein the phrase “the most Holy” refers to the Most Holy One, the promised Messiah of Israel.  According to the New Testament Scriptures, we learn that this Most Holy One, that the Messiah, is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.  Agreed Thus these “seventy weeks” are determined by the Lord God in order to bring about the literal anointing of the Lord Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords over all the earth.  As such, we could expect that the literal return of our Lord Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords (See Revelation 19) will occur at the completion of these “seventy weeks.”

 

You're going too fast. Jesus was anointed at his baptism, & finished his saving work on Calvary.

 

We can fully understand the 70 weeks prophecy in the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ, his death & resurrection, & in the saving Gospel proclaimed in his name by the Apostles, and, sadly, by the judgement of those who rejected him.    

 

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I mostly agree with your post, Ian.  It is better than I could do.  

 

The Jews would have had in mind Moses' prophecy of the Messiah. Deu. 18:15-19 They would also been expectantly looking for the 69th week to begin. There had been extraordinary stories at his birth, & they had met this 12-y-o in the temple.

 

 However unless I misunderstand your reasoning, I think you mean the 70th. week.

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Pastor Markle explained v. 24 within the context of the entire passage.

Apparently you prefer to pluck the verse from its explanatory context.

(somehow, I am not surprised.)

 

V. 24 summarises the force of the prophecy. The succeeding verses may be "explanatory context" but they cannot be interpreted in a way that destroys the primary context. See my reply to Scott.

 

The distinction that you are failing to comprehend is that the way God deals with a corporate nation - any nation, whether it be Jew or Gentile - is far different from the way God deals with an individual - any individual, Jew or Gentile.  An individual can experience the New Birth - salvation through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.  A nation as a corporate body cannot be "born again."  If the saved individuals within a given national entity have enough influence and political power, they can help shape that nation's moral compass and direction.

 

We can agree so far.

 

America is adrift because we have lost our Spiritual, Christian, and Biblical foundations.  God's judgement will fall on our nation because our nation as a corporate entity, beginning with our political leadership - federal, state, and local - have abandoned the Biblical plan for governing, and have encouraged unbiblical behaviour in exchange for more tax money and less blackmail - whether real or political.  

 

I agree in general terms, particularly when a nation's leadership acknowledges the Law of God as being of perpetual & universal application, & allows freedom to preach Christ, & convert & live as Christians. That is changing fast, but I don't think God's dealings with corporate nations is relevant to this discussion. The present nation of Israel falls under the same condemnation as American (& Britain.) 

 

God's dealing with the corporate nation of Israel as a group is different from the Gentiles simply because God expects more from them - they are God's chosen people, they were given the written word of God, and they were given the promises and unconditional covenants of the OT, which have yet to be fulfilled in their entirety.

 

Does that still apply? It was certainly true until the leaders of the nation rejected first their Messiah, then the Apostolic Gospel. The Gospel has now gone out into all the earth. The promises & unconditional covenants of the OT can only be perfectly fulfilled in the NH&NE, not the future millennium as commonly taught. The eternal blessings will not be interrupted by a worldwide rebellion as in Rev. 20. There are many prophecies of a glorious future for Israel. None are of a temporary earthly kingdom. 

 

Consider, e.g. Isaiah 11 & 12. That is a prophecy of Christ on earth, looking on to the spread of the Gospel through all the earth, ultimate on to the time when even the animals will live in peace. And read Eze. 36 - that is a permant & wonderfully blessed state. Surely the end to which God is working through Jesus Christ & the salvation he accomplished. The NH&NE is the perfect fulfilment of prophecy. 

 

It is as clear as day for any Bible reader, UNLESS, you spiritualize everything into a NT context.  

 

That, of course is the key to understanding OT prophecy! "Spiritualising" is not corrupting or allegorising. It is understanding the OT in terms of Jesus & his saving work, & saving purposes. We have the Holy Spirit to teach us the mind of Christ. 1 Cor. 2:11-16 1 Cor. 3:1 

 

We are to "rightly DIVIDE" not "rightly GLUE" everything together.  Things that are not the same are not equal.  Israel is not the same as the Church.  Never has been - never will be.  And that is the basis of your confusion on end times prophecy.  We recognize that distinction.  You try to blend the two distinct entities together.

 

This para edited for colour & reference typo:

We have to RIGHTLY understand before we can rightly divide. Note Eze. 36:24-29 with the oft-repeated covenant promise: And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. God is calling & restoring his people, beginning at Pentecost. Paul claims that covenant promise for Gentiles also - 2 Cor. 6:16 

 

Is the true "Israel" the present nation, largely comprising, & led by leaders who reject Jesus as their Messiah? Or is Israel those who welcome the Gospel who have a unity in Christ with believing Gentiles? You claim Israel is not the church, yet at Pentecost 3000 Jews formed the church. Acts 2:47 At first the church only comprised believing Israelites. Stephen speaks of Israel being the church. Acts 7:38

 

Jesus speaks of one who recognised him as the Son of God; [thou art] the King of Israel as an Israelite indeed.   John 1:47-51 

 

True, believing Israel IS the Church & comprises both Jew & Gentile as one believing, redeemed people of God. Acts 3:22-26  

 

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

 

 V. 23 makes it clear that those Jews who reject their Prophet/Messiah are NOT God's people. Acts records that many thousands did believe. These comprised the Church. 

     

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