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         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Where Is The Kingdom Of Antichrist ?


Eric Stahl

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John, many of your posts have no part in advancing the Gospel.
If that was the standard for allowing a post on this site then the overwhelming majority of posts would have to be removed.

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John, many of your posts have no part in advancing the Gospel.
If that was the standard for allowing a post on this site then the overwhelming majority of posts would have to be removed.

That's not the point. This particular poster starts numerous threads and posts the same isolated bits of Scripture, sometimes with a theory attached, and then leaves them hanging with no explanation. When asked about them he says they are to convince people of nuclear war so they will be afraid and I'm assuming he thinks that will get them to heaven.

 

The point is, isolated Scripture with a theory attached but nothing more leaves the whole thing open to a wide variety of guesses, points no lost person who might see it to what the poster says he's trying to convey, and without some explanation doesn't provide anything for the saved.

 

No one is saying every post has to be evangelistic or for edification, but when the claim is made they are of such but they don't meet those things, then it's left to wonder what the post means.

 

If there is actual meaning to these dozens of threads saying the same thing I would like to know what it is, which is why I ask. Simply posting a verse of Scripture and saying the sun will be darkened or there will be a nuclear war, doesn't mean much without context and/or explanation.

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That's not the point. This particular poster starts numerous threads and posts the same isolated bits of Scripture, sometimes with a theory attached, and then leaves them hanging with no explanation. When asked about them he says they are to convince people of nuclear war so they will be afraid and I'm assuming he thinks that will get them to heaven.

 

The point is, isolated Scripture with a theory attached but nothing more leaves the whole thing open to a wide variety of guesses, points no lost person who might see it to what the poster says he's trying to convey, and without some explanation doesn't provide anything for the saved.

 

No one is saying every post has to be evangelistic or for edification, but when the claim is made they are of such but they don't meet those things, then it's left to wonder what the post means.

 

If there is actual meaning to these dozens of threads saying the same thing I would like to know what it is, which is why I ask. Simply posting a verse of Scripture and saying the sun will be darkened or there will be a nuclear war, doesn't mean much without context and/or explanation.

 

John,

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

The church in the last days has become lukewarm as described in Revelation 3:13-17.

 

To the Church in Laodicea Revelation 3

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

 

John most of my post in the prophecy section are for the church not the unsaved.

 

Do you think Jeremiah warned the people in Jerusalem once and then kept quite? I am not a prophet. I do point out prophecy for our time to edify the church.

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John,

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

The church in the last days has become lukewarm as described in Revelation 3:13-17.

 

To the Church in Laodicea Revelation 3

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

 

John most of my post in the prophecy section are for the church not the unsaved.

 

Do you think Jeremiah warned the people in Jerusalem once and then kept quite? I am not a prophet. I do point out prophecy for our time to edify the church.

Thank you for giving forth a bit more to go with. I hope you understand I'm not knocking you for posting on prophecy, I'm simply trying to understand the meaning behind what you are posting. When you post an isolated verse, or a few verses, but nothing more, or perhaps a vague sentence of theory, it's left hanging in the air just what you are trying to say.

 

You say these postings are for us (the saved) so could you explain in what way these are for us and their purpose?

 

You are correct, especially with regards to American Christians, that lukewarmness has become the norm. Are your postings in some way an attempt to point that out, or an attempt to correct that, or something else?

 

There is very much confusion with regards to end-times prophecy, as well as with how to live for the Lord today, as we can see even here on OB in several threads. Any effort to bring clarity and explanation to these matters is worth the effort.

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Where Is The Kingdom Of Antichrist? Earth

 

Yes the antichrist will be given control of earth by God at the middle of the tribulation.Revelation 17:16-17.

But at the beginning of the tribulation the antichrist will come to power in the strongest country Daniel 11:39.

 

Where is the kingdom of antichrist?

 

Where and why will it be darkened before Armageddon? Look for the answer in the prophets.

 

Revelation 16:10-11

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

Before Armageddon the sun and moon will stand still and go from view because a permanent solar eclipse will cause darkness on Israel and the other side of the earth. America will be judged as the kingdom of antichrist. I warn American Christians to cause them to witness now.

 

 

Habakkuk 3:11-13

11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went(from view), and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

12Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.

13Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people(Israel), even for salvation with thine anointed(church); thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

 

 The permanent solar eclipse will continue through the kingdom age see Isaiah 60:19-20.

 

Isaiah 60:19-20

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

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Why do you believe this says he will come to power in the strongest country?

 

Strength comes in many forms, how do you know what country is strongest or what country will be strongest at that time?

 

If we won't be there why are we trying to figure out the details?

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Why do you believe this says he will come to power in the strongest country?

 

Strength comes in many forms, how do you know what country is strongest or what country will be strongest at that time?

 

If we won't be there why are we trying to figure out the details?

Daniel 11:36-40

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

 

(The antichrist will have control in the most strong holds or strongest nation when he divides Israel before the tribulation wars start.)

 

39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

 

America is the strongest nation on what will be the dark side of the earth after the sun and moon stand still on Israel's side of the earth. Zephaniah 1:14-2:3 teaches that the day of the Lord or tribulation is near, it is near,and hasteth greatly when the nation not desired (Israel) is gathered. There is not time for America to fall and another nation in the western hemisphere to become the strongest nation.

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Daniel 11:36-40

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

 

(The antichrist will have control in the most strong holds or strongest nation when he divides Israel before the tribulation wars start.)

 

39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

 

America is the strongest nation on what will be the dark side of the earth after the sun and moon stand still on Israel's side of the earth. Zephaniah 1:14-2:3 teaches that the day of the Lord or tribulation is near, it is near,and hasteth greatly when the nation not desired (Israel) is gathered. There is not time for America to fall and another nation in the western hemisphere to become the strongest nation.

If I recall, someone in another thread did a pretty good jOB pointing out many prOBlems with the idea of there being a dark side of the earth.

 

A nation can fall in a day so there is more than enough time for America to fall unless everything happens right now. China could cripple America with the stoke of a pen. Hackers could do the same. The economic position of America is in a very precarious state and if it tumbles drastically, that's it for America.

 

If America bungles it's way into a nuclear war with Russia it will be China that steps in and takes the mantle of worlds strongest nation.

 

The strength of the American military is based upon exceedingly expensive hi-tech weaponry. If the American economy falls, the American military will be exceedingly limited in how long and on how many fronts she can effectively fight since she won't be able to resupply.

 

America is also internally weak and growing weaker each year.

 

Most "prophecy preachers" have, and still do, point to the EU as the power center in the end times, not America.

 

You say these postings are to help believers but you haven't yet said how they help believers if we won't be here when this happens and if you are basing much of what you say from theory that we can't know the accuracy of until after the event. This is confusing.

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If I recall, someone in another thread did a pretty good jOB pointing out many prOBlems with the idea of there being a dark side of the earth.

 

A nation can fall in a day so there is more than enough time for America to fall unless everything happens right now. China could cripple America with the stoke of a pen. Hackers could do the same. The economic position of America is in a very precarious state and if it tumbles drastically, that's it for America.

 

If America bungles it's way into a nuclear war with Russia it will be China that steps in and takes the mantle of worlds strongest nation.

 

The strength of the American military is based upon exceedingly expensive hi-tech weaponry. If the American economy falls, the American military will be exceedingly limited in how long and on how many fronts she can effectively fight since she won't be able to resupply.

 

America is also internally weak and growing weaker each year.

 

Most "prophecy preachers" have, and still do, point to the EU as the power center in the end times, not America.

 

You say these postings are to help believers but you haven't yet said how they help believers if we won't be here when this happens and if you are basing much of what you say from theory that we can't know the accuracy of until after the event. This is confusing.

John,

 

I agree that America could fall or be destroyed fast but another country can not rise in time to be the most powerful nation.

 

In 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12 we are told that God will send strong delusion on everyone that has heard the truth of the gospel but rejected Jesus, to believe the lie of the antichrist. America will be the most deluded nation because they have been the most evangelized people. The Western Europe will follow antichrist soon after America. America will be in the dark when the sun and moon stop over Israel. The reason America prOBably won't fall before the rapture is the Christians who are faithful to the end.

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Yes the antichrist will be given control of earth by God at the middle of the tribulation.Revelation 17:16-17.

But at the beginning of the tribulation the antichrist will come to power in the strongest country Daniel 11:39.

 

Where is the kingdom of antichrist?

 

Where and why will it be darkened before Armageddon? Look for the answer in the prophets.

 

Revelation 16:10-11

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

Before Armageddon the sun and moon will stand still and go from view because a permanent solar eclipse will cause darkness on Israel and the other side of the earth. America will be judged as the kingdom of antichrist. I warn American Christians to cause them to witness now.

 

 

Habakkuk 3:11-13

11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went(from view), and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

12Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.

13Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people(Israel), even for salvation with thine anointed(church); thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

 

 The permanent solar eclipse will continue through the kingdom age see Isaiah 60:19-20.

 

Isaiah 60:19-20

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

 

A solar eclipse is when the Moon passes between the Sun and Earth, and the Moon fully or partially blocks the Sun. 

 

1 There is still light greater than a full moon at night.

2 Both the moon and sun are still visible

 

The other events come and go, we don't know if this darkness will come and go also. 

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A solar eclipse is when the Moon passes between the Sun and Earth, and the Moon fully or partially blocks the Sun. 

 

1 There is still light greater than a full moon at night.

2 Both the moon and sun are still visible

 

The other events come and go, we don't know if this darkness will come and go also. 

MC,

 

The permanent solar eclipse will continue through the kingdom age see Isaiah 60:19-20.

 

Isaiah 60:19-20

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

 

The sun and moon stay over Israel for the 1000 year kingdom age. When I understood this I finally believed. There are many scriptures that talk about the sun going dark at noon or in its going forth. The 200 mile dark spot is only on Israel where the antichrist's seat of power will be for the last half of the tribulation Daniel 11:45.During a full solar eclipse you can't see the moon or sun or stars because of a twilight condition.

 

Read all of Isaiah chapter 60. Jesus will come to Israel in verse1-2, and the Gentiles will come to Israel to look up to see the light of Jesus in the New Jerusalem in the heavens over Israel in the shadow of the moon.

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John,

 

I agree that America could fall or be destroyed fast but another country can not rise in time to be the most powerful nation.

 

In 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12 we are told that God will send strong delusion on everyone that has heard the truth of the gospel but rejected Jesus, to believe the lie of the antichrist. America will be the most deluded nation because they have been the most evangelized people. The Western Europe will follow antichrist soon after America. America will be in the dark when the sun and moon stop over Israel. The reason America prOBably won't fall before the rapture is the Christians who are faithful to the end.

In what way is America the most powerful nation?

 

There was a recent thread which took to task just what the "strong delusion" actually means and who it pertains to and there was no consensus that it referred to those after the rapture or specific people after rapture.

 

Today, it's hard to say America is evangelized. There are millions across America today who have never read anything from a Bible. Many who have no idea who Jesus is. Many more who have a secular, vague concept of Jesus or "a God", or know something of secular "christianity". Millions in America, if they heard the Gospel tomorrow, it would be the first time they ever heard it.

 

How is it that most all "prophecy preachers", as well as most previous generations who spoke on this, don't now or didn't then see America fitting this role? Most have believed it to be a European confederation; with most today pointing to the EU.

 

As MC pointed out, and others did in another thread, the idea of the Western Hemisphere being in the dark for an extended time period isn't what they see in Scripture.

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In what way is America the most powerful nation?

 

There was a recent thread which took to task just what the "strong delusion" actually means and who it pertains to and there was no consensus that it referred to those after the rapture or specific people after rapture.

 

Today, it's hard to say America is evangelized. There are millions across America today who have never read anything from a Bible. Many who have no idea who Jesus is. Many more who have a secular, vague concept of Jesus or "a God", or know something of secular "christianity". Millions in America, if they heard the Gospel tomorrow, it would be the first time they ever heard it.

 

How is it that most all "prophecy preachers", as well as most previous generations who spoke on this, don't now or didn't then see America fitting this role? Most have believed it to be a European confederation; with most today pointing to the EU.

 

As MC pointed out, and others did in another thread, the idea of the Western Hemisphere being in the dark for an extended time period isn't what they see in Scripture.

 

We have had one or two people come into our church recently who say they have never been in any church before,  One only lived round the corner and said she did not know our church existed, even though we had leafleted that road.

 

Hitler's regime was Catholic through and through, and he was put in power when the Catholic party voted the give him  executive powers and was then ordered by the pope to disband.  Hitler never one an election.  His regime was  called the Third Reich.  Many consider the EU to be The Fourth Reich, also led by Germany.  Most of Europe is RC.

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Hitler never one an election. His regime was called the Third Reich.


You can't help but twist history can you....
Hitler's Nazi party was the largest elected party, and he was Appointed as chancellor. His party did win the election.

If you are referring to a technicality that he was never voted for as chancellor, then you are manipulating the facts, for that was not their method of appointing the chancellor.
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You can't help but twist history can you....
Hitler's Nazi party was the largest elected party, and he was Appointed as chancellor. His party did win the election.

If you are referring to a technicality that he was never voted for as chancellor, then you are manipulating the facts, for that was not their method of appointing the chancellor.

A fine point, but indeed under the democratic system in Germany at that time, Hitler gained the seat of Chancellor by legal appointment. He also managed to legally use the system to expand his power before eventually going his own way using the powers the elected officials had previously granted him.

 

Some point to the Holy Roman Empire, which was German, as being more important in terms of the end times than Hitler and the Nazis.

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Just found this article:   

 

"No, Hitler Did Not Come to Power Democratically"

 

by Daniel Luban

 

In a recent interview, the conservative Middle East scholar Bernard Lewis argues that the Arab world is not ready for free and fair elections. This may be surprising coming from the man whose theories about “the roots of Muslim rage” were a major inspiration for the Bush administration’s democracy promotion agenda. Nevertheless, in making his argument Lewis repeats what is supposed to be the argument-clincher against elections — the fact that “Hitler came to power in a free and fair election.”

The only prOBlem is that this frequently-repeated “fact” is simply not true. In the final two free elections before Hitler’s rise to power, in July and November 1932, the Nazis received 38% and 33% of the vote, respectively — a plurality but not enough to bring them into government. In the 1932 presidential election, Hitler lost to Hindenburg by a wide margin.

Hitler came to power not through elections, but because Hindenburg and the circle around Hindenburg ultimately decided to appoint him chancellor in January 1933. This was the result of backroom dealing and power politics, not any kind of popular vote. It is true that after Hitler was already ensconced as chancellor, the Nazis subsequently won the March 1933 elections. But this was in the wake of the Reichstag fire, when the government had passed an emergency law that sharply restricted the activities of left-of-center parties (including the arrest of many Communist leaders). Thus it is difficult to claim that these were “free and fair” elections.

 

Look, I understand the basic point that Lewis and the rest are trying to make with the Hitler example: elections can sometimes bring nasty people to power. And frankly, I agree with this OBvious point. But it would be nice if seemingly well-informed people would stop repeating this bogus “fact” about Hitler, so that we can lay it to rest once and for all.

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It takes very little research to see precisely the same manner of governmental appointment in many European countries today.

Many European countries do not have a "two party system" as the US has.
Whoever rules, gains power by coalitions of parties.
In many instances there is no majority party, but many smaller parties join forces to gain control.
It often happens that the party that actually attains the highest percentage of the vote is not able to form adequate coalitions and is therefore not able to form govornment.
THIS IS THEIR LEGITIMATE POLITICAL PROCESS, and therefore the recognized legal procedure.

This is what happened with Hitler. It was fully legal and according their prevailing political process.

And anyone who lives in Europe would know that.

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Just found this article:   

 

"No, Hitler Did Not Come to Power Democratically"

 

by Daniel Luban

 

In a recent interview, the conservative Middle East scholar Bernard Lewis argues that the Arab world is not ready for free and fair elections. This may be surprising coming from the man whose theories about “the roots of Muslim rage” were a major inspiration for the Bush administration’s democracy promotion agenda. Nevertheless, in making his argument Lewis repeats what is supposed to be the argument-clincher against elections — the fact that “Hitler came to power in a free and fair election.”

The only prOBlem is that this frequently-repeated “fact” is simply not true. In the final two free elections before Hitler’s rise to power, in July and November 1932, the Nazis received 38% and 33% of the vote, respectively — a plurality but not enough to bring them into government. In the 1932 presidential election, Hitler lost to Hindenburg by a wide margin.

Hitler came to power not through elections, but because Hindenburg and the circle around Hindenburg ultimately decided to appoint him chancellor in January 1933. This was the result of backroom dealing and power politics, not any kind of popular vote. It is true that after Hitler was already ensconced as chancellor, the Nazis subsequently won the March 1933 elections. But this was in the wake of the Reichstag fire, when the government had passed an emergency law that sharply restricted the activities of left-of-center parties (including the arrest of many Communist leaders). Thus it is difficult to claim that these were “free and fair” elections.

 

Look, I understand the basic point that Lewis and the rest are trying to make with the Hitler example: elections can sometimes bring nasty people to power. And frankly, I agree with this OBvious point. But it would be nice if seemingly well-informed people would stop repeating this bogus “fact” about Hitler, so that we can lay it to rest once and for all.

The RC party the Zentrum, voted Hitler emergency powers and then the Pope ordered them to disband and support the Nazi Party.  I have not distorted history. 

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The permanent solar eclipse is described in many day of the Lord prophecies.

 

 

Isaiah 13:9-11

9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

 

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

 

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

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      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
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      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
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        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
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      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
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      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
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      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
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