Members John81 Posted November 11, 2014 Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 And where exactly in scripture does it mention a revived Roman Empire? I believe, at least to an extent, that's what GP has been trying to ask of Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted November 11, 2014 Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 Thank you all, that was very informative and direct. A good question to start another topic, would be Invicta's question. I am curious also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted November 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 And where exactly in scripture does it mention a revived Roman Empire? Many people refer to the forth kingdom (Rome) as the revived Roman Empire because it will all come back together under the antichrist. Actually the forth kingdom still exists today as the ten toes. Â 40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted November 12, 2014 Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 Who are the ten toes you say exist today? Â What era of the Roman Empire will be revived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted November 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 Who are the ten toes you say exist today? Â What era of the Roman Empire will be revived? I believe the ten toes are the same areas of the old Roman Empire and their colonies. I believe America will be the 11th horn that up roots three of the toes during the war of Gog and Magog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted November 12, 2014 Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 I believe the ten toes are the same areas of the old Roman Empire and their colonies. I believe America will be the 11th horn that up roots three of the toes during the war of Gog and Magog. If the ten toes are ten distinct kingdoms and they exist today that would mean the ten toes are not an area and colonies but actual nations today. America, nor any nation in the Americas were or are a colony of Rome. Â Just who is God and Magog? There are dozens of theories as to who this refers to and the Christian view of this has changed over the centuries many times. Early Christians thought this Gog and Magog referred to Rome. In the mid-1800s a theory arose it referred to Russia, but that wasn't given serious acceptance until the midst of the Cold War. Syria, Georgia, Germany, the Scythians, the Monguls, the Huns, Khazars, and a host of others have all been pointed to. Â After 2,000 years there is still no consensus regarding the details of the end-times and virtually every generation bases their view upon the contemporary situation around them at the time. Â Just in my own lifetime there have been more variations of who and what all this refers to than I can count. With each contemporary change in the world, previous declarations which were given as a sure thing were cast aside in favor of new views that were presented as certain...only to be cast aside when the next geo-political change-up occurred. Â I love a good mystery, I love the Bible even more, I would love to know exactly what all the end-times things in Scripture refer to and mean, but it seems to a great extent God is keeping much hidden for His own purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted November 12, 2014 Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 Many people refer to the forth kingdom (Rome) as the revived Roman Empire because it will all come back together under the antichrist. Actually the forth kingdom still exists today as the ten toes.  40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.  The Roman empire broke up into 10 Gothic kingdoms,  These gave their power to the papacy, led by among others, Charlemagne.  The papacy is the current head of the Roman empire.  The RE was a spiritual as well as a temporal kingdom. Julius Caesar was  priest of the pagan religion and head of the empire, with the title of Pont Max.  Just as the Papacy is a spiritual as well as a temporal kingdom and the Pope is head of the Roamn pagan religion and supreme head of state.  Every RC is a citizen of Rome.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted November 13, 2014 Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 The Roman empire broke up into 10 Gothic kingdoms,  These gave their power to the papacy, led by among others, Charlemagne.  The papacy is the current head of the Roman empire.  The RE was a spiritual as well as a temporal kingdom. Julius Caesar was  priest of the pagan religion and head of the empire, with the title of Pont Max.  Just as the Papacy is a spiritual as well as a temporal kingdom and the Pope is head of the Roamn pagan religion and supreme head of state.  Every RC is a citizen of Rome.. In one variation or another, this view was the dominate Christian view for centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted November 13, 2014 Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 I have most often heard it as something along the lines of the Catholic Church gaining secular as well as religious power. So from what I have heard the answer would be no - but I personally have no great opinion on it. I would be really surprised if the Catholic Church does not play a big part in the great tribulation though. Â Have you ever heard of the papal states? Â These were states which comprised much of Italy which the pope ruled over as his personal fief with his own armies. Â These lasted until 1870, the same year as the pope proclaimed his infallibility when the French troops guarding Rome departed and the king of Italy walked in. Â The Popes sulked and refused to leave the Vatican Palace until 1926 when Mussolini gave him Vatican City. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted November 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 If the ten toes are ten distinct kingdoms and they exist today that would mean the ten toes are not an area and colonies but actual nations today. America, nor any nation in the Americas were or are a colony of Rome. Â Just who is God and Magog? There are dozens of theories as to who this refers to and the Christian view of this has changed over the centuries many times. Early Christians thought this Gog and Magog referred to Rome. In the mid-1800s a theory arose it referred to Russia, but that wasn't given serious acceptance until the midst of the Cold War. Syria, Georgia, Germany, the Scythians, the Monguls, the Huns, Khazars, and a host of others have all been pointed to. Â After 2,000 years there is still no consensus regarding the details of the end-times and virtually every generation bases their view upon the contemporary situation around them at the time. Â Just in my own lifetime there have been more variations of who and what all this refers to than I can count. With each contemporary change in the world, previous declarations which were given as a sure thing were cast aside in favor of new views that were presented as certain...only to be cast aside when the next geo-political change-up occurred. Â I love a good mystery, I love the Bible even more, I would love to know exactly what all the end-times things in Scripture refer to and mean, but it seems to a great extent God is keeping much hidden for His own purposes. John, Â Gog is the leader of Magog. Magog is the country that is a guard for the listed allies. Â Ezekiel 38 1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: 5Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee. 7Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. Â Only Russia meets this requirement now that Israel has gathered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted November 13, 2014 Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 John, Â Gog is the leader of Magog. Magog is the country that is a guard for the listed allies. Â Ezekiel 38 1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: 5Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee. 7Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. Â Only Russia meets this requirement now that Israel has gathered. Then why do so many others believe only Turkey or Syria meets this requirement now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted November 13, 2014 Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 Why is the European Union seen as the "Revived Roman Empire"?  When reading Daniel's "World Empires" vision/prophesy, notice that there are only four world empires...  The head of gold - Babylon The breast and arms of silver - Medo-Persian The belly and thighs of brass - Greece The legs of iron and feet of iron and clay - Rome  The first three empires were conquered by their following empires respectively... Babylon...conquered by the Medo-Persians Medo-Persians...conquered by Alexander the Great (Greece) Greece...conquered by the Romans Rome was never conquered by anyone...they just kind of faded away...  Therefore, Rome (the 2 legs) IS the final world empire according to Bible prophesy. According to Daniel 2:44, the kingdom of God will be established during the reign of the fourth and final world empire...Rome.  As I stated, Rome just kind of faded away...they've never been replaced. Which brings us to the feet mixed with iron and clay...with ten toes (ten kings). IF Rome is the final empire when Jesus sets up his kingdom here on earth, then they must come back into power...hence...the "Revived Roman Empire".  The EU territory (along with the Mediterranean Union territory) so closely resembles the Roman Empire's territory, that they have to at least be the groundwork for the end-time prophecy of Daniel to transpire.  In Daniel's vision/prophesy of the four beasts (Daniel 7), the four beasts represent those same world empires. In this vision, he learns that the horns on the fourth beast represented 10 kings just as the 10 toes from the first vision did. However, another little horn came up out of the head of the beast (Roman Empire)...that little horn being the antichrist. So, the antichrist will apparently come from the Revived Roman Empire.  Now, if I can figure out how to post these pictures...see how closely the EU/Mediterranean Union resembles the old Roman Empire...  The Roman Empire...    The EU/Mediterranean Union(s)  Sounds very feasible to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted November 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 Then why do so many others believe only Turkey or Syria meets this requirement now?  Why is the European Union seen as the "Revived Roman Empire"?  When reading Daniel's "World Empires" vision/prophesy, notice that there are only four world empires...  The head of gold - Babylon The breast and arms of silver - Medo-Persian The belly and thighs of brass - Greece The legs of iron and feet of iron and clay - Rome  The first three empires were conquered by their following empires respectively... Babylon...conquered by the Medo-Persians Medo-Persians...conquered by Alexander the Great (Greece) Greece...conquered by the Romans Rome was never conquered by anyone...they just kind of faded away...  Therefore, Rome (the 2 legs) IS the final world empire according to Bible prophesy. According to Daniel 2:44, the kingdom of God will be established during the reign of the fourth and final world empire...Rome.  As I stated, Rome just kind of faded away...they've never been replaced. Which brings us to the feet mixed with iron and clay...with ten toes (ten kings). IF Rome is the final empire when Jesus sets up his kingdom here on earth, then they must come back into power...hence...the "Revived Roman Empire".  The EU territory (along with the Mediterranean Union territory) so closely resembles the Roman Empire's territory, that they have to at least be the groundwork for the end-time prophecy of Daniel to transpire.  In Daniel's vision/prophesy of the four beasts (Daniel 7), the four beasts represent those same world empires. In this vision, he learns that the horns on the fourth beast represented 10 kings just as the 10 toes from the first vision did. However, another little horn came up out of the head of the beast (Roman Empire)...that little horn being the antichrist. So, the antichrist will apparently come from the Revived Roman Empire.  Now, if I can figure out how to post these pictures...see how closely the EU/Mediterranean Union resembles the old Roman Empire...  The Roman Empire...    The EU/Mediterranean Union(s)  Sounds very feasible to me... Thank you for the maps. During the war of Ezekiel 38 the two parts will be combined by force when the antichrist leads the 11 th horn to up root them. I believe America will be lead by the antichrist to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted November 13, 2014 Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 Rome was conquered from within and from without. The Roman Empire didn't fade away, it was defeated. Many attempts were made to hold on to parts of it by different rulers, and even to reestablish it, but it was never to be. Various outside forces conquered Rome because she was weak from crumbling from within. Â The EU covers a much larger area in Europe than Rome ever did while not encompassing many other countries which Rome did. Â One can hardly dispute the fact that Great Britain was a large, worldwide Empire and that many other Empires have existed as well; some holding much sway and even ruling over parts of the old Roman Empire. Â Some point to the Holy Roman Empire (which wasn't the actual Roman Empire) and the RCC/pope as having been the revived Roman Empire. Some believe the RCC will orchestrate something similar in the future. Â Attempts to unite Europe in the past have been viewed as proof the Roman Empire was being revived. The precursor to the EU was thought to fill that position, then the EU was said to be the sign of the end with many declaring that once there were 10 EU nations the end would come. After the EU greatly expanded beyond 10 nations, new "certainties" were declared. Some have even pointed to NATO rather than the EU. The rise of Mussolini gave rise to some pointing to that as the sign of the rebuilding of the Roman Empire. When Mussolini joined with Hitler even more cries arose that this was the renewal of the Roman Empire. Before that some saw Napoleon as being the one to usher in a new Roman Empire. Â Does Scripture actually say the Roman Empire will be reestablished, or does it perhaps say something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted November 13, 2014 Members Share Posted November 13, 2014 Rome was never defeated - it transformed from political to religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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