Why King James Only?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

This was posted after one of my posts.  
It is not a very clear post.  No explanation. No elaboration.  But OBviously was addressed to me, since it followed one of my posts.  And I never said the "ends justifies the means."  
I said I could not comment on her  methods, because I don't have the time or resources to check them.  
What that means is that I would have to get the sources she cited and check them for myself.  I don't trust her critics to be honest in their representation of her.  
Why?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T DEAL WITH THE SUBSTANCE OF HER ARGUMENT.   If her argument is wrong, then prove it wrong - don't waste my time trying to convince me she "lied."  ALL MEN ARE LIARS, including her critics.  So why should I trust her critics more than her????????????????  It makes no sense.
 
I have addressed the accusations of her claiming inspiration...
 
I have been absolutely clear in my position, but because I am not ready to throw Riplinger or Ruckman under the bus based on hearsay, inuendo, and 2nd hand information, then my posts are largely UNREAD in their entirety.  I am getting the same treatment they get.  
 
Second hand accusations don't cut it for me.  All of this stuff is Diotrephes at work.  
And I think we all have better things to do.
 
I would suggest that we simply close the thread.  We are not getting anywhere nor  are we edifying each other.

i had to chuckle when I read the above bolded. I wonder, if Steve believes that all men are liars, then why should Steve trust Gail more than her critics? It makes no sense.

The thing is, it has been proven that Gail misquotes people in order to make her position seem more credible. She also has a prOBlem with giving proper resources to substantiate her claims in other alleged quotes.

This, to me, would raise red flags to her credibility. As it should for any Christian. I admire her for wanting to defend the KJV. However, it does no good to attempt to defend the truth through lies and deceit.

[HappyChristian]

Let's get back to topic, SFIC.  Unless Jordan wants the thread to keep going in this direction. He can let us know how he wants it to go.  

[heartstrings]

Why are you King James only?

 

I wasn't there when they translated the "Textus Receptus". I don't [personally know the men who translated the 1611 KJB. But I believe that Jesus is The Word of John chapter one, and the King of Glory of Psalm 24, the Shepherd of Psalm 23 and I the powerful Voice of Psalm 29 whose Spirit moved over my heart and shook my wilderness, broke my prideful heart. divided the flames of fire and I have never been the same. He is the Bridegroom of Psalm 19 whose Law is perfect, and His word is PRESERVED the Bible says and  I can testify assuredly. with the officers in John 7:46 who said "never man spake like this man" . Those are just a few of the reasons I believe the King James Bible is the "Very pure" word for my ears.

[Jordan Kurecki]

I completely understood Riplinger's point in Hazardous Materials, basically she says your stupid for using Greek and Hebrew because Satan is corrupting the bible through corrupt lexicons, all based on quotes that you can't even trust. 

[DaveW]

I regard Mr Ruckman as........
Well to be honest I rarely consider him either way.
This Riplinger woman I have heard of - I think someone gave me the book at one stage.....

I am rarely critical of either of them.

The thing that erks me about this is that normally rational people become rabid the moment someone dares to be critical of them.
Well, newsflash! They are sinful people. They make mistakes or are possibly even sinfully deceitful.
Ruckman is by no means a blameless man.

Want some unequivocal proof of ungodliness?
How many times has he been married?
He is self confessed to have a temper and to use language that the overwhelming majority of us would find unacceptable.

These are public facts.

He is due criticism.

This has no bearing on what he teaches, but it does have a bearing on his right to teach........

Funnily enough matters of character are used in regard to Wescott and Hort by KJV defenders - including me.
And matters of character are used by critics of false Christian teachers - think of how Calvin is (rightly) attacked because of his moral failures.

Goose and Gander.

[Steve Schwenke]

“Let me say very plainly at the outset of this article, I do not believe New Age Bible Versions is a dangerous book; I believe it is an undependable book. I agree with Mrs. Riplinger that the multiplicity of modern versions has caused great spiritual damage. At the same time, I have decided I must warn our readers of the many errors we have found in New Age Bible Versions. ... Some might be thinking, ‘Why are you defending the modern versions? Aren’t they corrupt?’ Yes, the modern versions are corrupt, and I am not defending them. I am against error, though, regardless of where it appears. We do not have the right to make false statements even about the devil himself. When our speaking and writing is filled with error of fact and is characterized by shoddy research and indefensible extremism, we discredit our entire position. I am not saying there is no good in New Age Bible Versions. The book contains many helpful insights and it documents the frightful corruption of the modern versions, but it also is filled with illogical and improper statements which have the effect of discrediting everything the author says that is true. There is no reason, friends, to promote a book like this when there are so many dependable volumes which defend the preserved Word of God and expose the error of the modern versions. We would recommend the following: Defending the King James Bible by D.A. Waite and Forever Settled by Jack Moorman. For a smaller overview we recommend Jack Moorman’s Modern Bibles: The Dark Secret. [These are available from Bible for Today, 900 Park Ave., Collingswood, NJ 08108.]”

 

From David Cloud - http://www.wayoflife.org/database/newagebibleversions.html

THis is the same link Jordan gave above.

[Salyan]

The thing that irks me about this is that normally rational people become rabid the moment someone dares to be critical of them.
 

 

This. Yes.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

I see a lot of criticism of Ruckman and Gail on here but no one giving first hand evidence as Steve mentioned. I don't care for Gail acting as a pastor at times and Ruckman's name calling but as for accusations of misquotes first hand examples should be given. Steve is correct, all men are liars. I have yet to meet someone have has never lied in their lifetime. Fundamentalism's biggest weakness is everyone flocking to their own leaders. For some it is David Cloud, for others it is Ruckman. For others still it may be Sword of the Lord leaders or some school they attended. We need to go back to the Bible. The Bible alone needs to be our sole authority.

[Steve Schwenke]

I have very OBviously not done a good jOB of communicating my point here.  I take responsibility for that.

 

I am not "rabid" nor am I Machiavellian.

 

I am calling for a more careful approach to these subjects.  If we are all KJV Believers, then our authority rests on the Scripture itself, not on man.  Man can help us see certain truths through their preaching, teaching, and writing.  However, all of this must be filtered through the Bible itself. 

 

I am no stranger to this debate.  I have been reading things from as many different perspectives as I can get my hands on for the last 24 years.  I have read Dr. Ruckman's materials, and I have read the materials of his detractors as well.  I have read all of the criticisms of Riplinger.  There is nothing here that has been presented that I have not read or heard before. 

 

The criticism against Riplinger is that she does a poor jOB of accurately presenting the views of the people she quotes.  Examples are given in each instance. 

 

The prOBlem is that I have no way to check her quotes, nor do I have any way to check the quotes of her critics.  Where does that leave us?

 

In my view, if I were to write a critical response to somebody's book, I would address the SUBJECT MATTER, not their use of quotations.  I would deal ONLY with the main thesis, the arguments presented, the conclusions, and how these correspond to Scriptural Truth.  Period.

 

Her detractors do not do that.

In my mind, this casts doubt as to their motives and the validity of their criticisms. 

 

In fact, the quote I provided above from Br. Cloud admits that he cannot find fault with the OVERALL idea, just her methods. 

 

In my view Cloud's critique is very subjective, because now I am being asked to take his word on the matter. 

 

I don't trust people when their argument against somebody else's work is nothing more than a smear campaign on their personal character.  I am sure if we looked hard enough, we could find plenty of "dirt" on the critics as well.  I don't think that approach is Biblical. 

 

I simply cannot take somebody else's word that she has "lied" or misrepresented others.  I am being asked to believe one person, and dismiss another based on.....wait for it....what that one person said.  No dice.  Can't do it.  Won't do it. 

 

"Let God be true and EVERY MAN a liar...." Romans 3:4. 

 

Let's just stick to the Scriptures, use it as our guide, follow its example, and judge all things by the KJV, not by man's opinion of another man.

 

In Christ,

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Looking for "first-hand" evidence?  Won't find it.  None of us have met Gail.  We have only seen her books and seen the writings of others who have critiqued the books and found her misquotes and errors.

The evidence you seek, (if you truly are seeking it) is out there on the www.  Google it.

[Steve Schwenke]

First hand evidence would be me getting all of her primary sources and checking them for the accuracy of her quotations.  

Her critics have produced a very small number of alleged discrepancies.  I can't check them either.  

 

Where does that leave us?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If one cannot check the discrepancies that critics have given, then one really should not look condescendingly upon or bad mouth the the critics who HAVE done the homework.

Might be worth doing the homework first before one says "all men are liars so why should I trust the critics?". Though all men are liars, it does not necessarily mean they never tell the truth. If that were the case, we'd all do better to not even talk with others about anything. LoL

[Jim_Alaska]

I have been following this whole thread from beginning to end. I have refrained from posting numerous times simply because my thoughts and convictions stray from Jordan’s original question.

 

But now, after much prayer and thought, I feel I must post the burden that The Lord has laid on my heart.

 

This thread has drifted from the original topic to posts about who follows who; why others are wrong; (Riplinger, Ruckman) and others. And I just keep coming back to the “why” of it all. Let me lay it out plainly since what I have said so far is OBscure.

 

I guess this will come in the form of questions. Why do so many feel the need to read after men or women that they don’t know personally, or who have ministries outside of their own church?

 

Are your churches so weak that you are not being fed proper spiritual food? The local church is, or should be, the place where we are fed, where we grow in Grace and love toward our God and our brethren. There is no substitute for the local church.

 

Paul says this about the local church: 1Tim. 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. If we believe God’s inspired Word why do some feel the need to seek it elsewhere? If our churches are what they should be, why waste our time and resources elsewhere?

 

2Thes. 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

Now I know that someone will say that they are just defending the KJV. But this issue goes far beyond this concept. There are false teachers and preachers world wide, does that mean we have to address each one? I think not! 2Tim. 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprOBate concerning the faith.

 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. Simply put; God is able!

 

I am not saying that these things should not be addressed; they certainly should be as they pertain to our own churches. But why go outside to look for windmills to tilt at? Do we who comprise a local Church of the Living God not have enough to do to keep ourselves pure; preach the Gospel; teach our own people; visit the sick; study; pray?

 

Brothers and sisters, I will end by encouraging each one to fully support your local church by your attendance, prayers and care one for another. Rebuke false teaching in your midst, but don’t get all caught up in the errors of others. It is not profitable. The local church needs you and all of your heart, mind and soul.

 

God bless you as you serve Him.

[heartstrings]

I have been following this whole thread from beginning to end. I have refrained from posting numerous times simply because my thoughts and convictions stray from Jordan’s original question.

 

But now, after much prayer and thought, I feel I must post the burden that The Lord has laid on my heart.

 

This thread has drifted from the original topic to posts about who follows who; why others are wrong; (Riplinger, Ruckman) and others. And I just keep coming back to the “why” of it all. Let me lay it out plainly since what I have said so far is OBscure.

 

I guess this will come in the form of questions. Why do so many feel the need to read after men or women that they don’t know personally, or who have ministries outside of their own church?

 

Are your churches so weak that you are not being fed proper spiritual food? The local church is, or should be, the place where we are fed, where we grow in Grace and love toward our God and our brethren. There is no substitute for the local church.

 

Paul says this about the local church: 1Tim. 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. If we believe God’s inspired Word why do some feel the need to seek it elsewhere? If our churches are what they should be, why waste our time and resources elsewhere?

 

2Thes. 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

Now I know that someone will say that they are just defending the KJV. But this issue goes far beyond this concept. There are false teachers and preachers world wide, does that mean we have to address each one? I think not! 2Tim. 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprOBate concerning the faith.

 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. Simply put; God is able!

 

I am not saying that these things should not be addressed; they certainly should be as they pertain to our own churches. But why go outside to look for windmills to tilt at? Do we who comprise a local Church of the Living God not have enough to do to keep ourselves pure; preach the Gospel; teach our own people; visit the sick; study; pray?

 

Brothers and sisters, I will end by encouraging each one to fully support your local church by your attendance, prayers and care one for another. Rebuke false teaching in your midst, but don’t get all caught up in the errors of others. It is not profitable. The local church needs you and all of your heart, mind and soul.

 

God bless you as you serve Him.

 I think it is necessary that we know what the false doctrines are and who the false teachers are. Paul warned of them and even named names. The 'grievous wolves' can and will, the first chance they get.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If others are hearing false doctrines, how will they hear truth except someone goes to them?

Yes, our Church is to be a pillar of truth. But WE are supposed to be light in a world of darkness. If we don't take the light to them, they remain in darkness.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

To some extent, I thank God for our local Church. For, had it not been for them, I would not be reaching the people I reach today.

[John81]

With regards to what Jim brought up, I think the great danger lies with so many these days either replacing the local church with TV preachers, books by various Christian authors, radio sermons, online preaching; or in giving little heed to their local church pastor while looking to others for spiritual guidance.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to or reading Pastor Markle's sermons which he posts here (for instance) but we shouldn't skip attending a home church to do so. The same is true with reading or listening to other Christian authors and preachers.

 

Hopefully, we each have at least a good, if not very good, home church and pastor, and that's where we should receive most of our Christian teaching and training; that's where our spiritual gifts and "works" should go to, or through.

 

When it comes to Christian authors or preachers who ere on some points, who may be weak in some areas, or who might be outright fraudulent in some cases, it's up to each of us to decide if they are worth our time and attention. Myself, those who have proven to be fraudulent time and again, I would want nothing to do with, regardless of how sound they might be on some point. There are other, non-fraudulent authors/preachers out there who would be better to give attention to. When it comes to the others I mentioned, there are some I might read or listen to some of their stuff, but if they are very far off on some things I wouldn't recommend them to others.

 

I read a lot, but my main feasting is upon what I receive from sermons, Sunday school and Bible studies at my home church led by our pastor.

[Jim_Alaska]

John, you said it a bit differently than I did, but you are right on the money concerning what I was feebly attempting to impart. That's what I get for trying to think and write so early in the morning. Thank you for your input.

[PastorMatt]

 

Matt, this is why your site is dead. You allow blatant heretics to teach their rotten calvinism and to the praise of several here who should know better and you allow a mod to operate who does not accept the doctrinal position of this board. You either need to get a spine Matt or change the doctrinal statement.

 

 

Thank you for your input my friend. Let me know if you are even in New England so we can do lunch.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Hey Bro Matt!  Long time no see!  (no really, I'm blind) 

Seriously Bro, if you are ever in NorthWestern Mississippi, let us know.  Would love to meet and talk over some coffee.