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Why King James Only?


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Mike, I have to concurr with Steve, he is spot on. I have the book you quoted, or should I say, requoted...

 

Dr Ruckman has made clear time and time again in context exactly what he means when he uses the term "The Greek", it is a text that merely exists in the minds of Bible correcting fools as they can no more produce "The Greek" than you can. There is no such thing. If you actually read any of his books you would have known that. Stick to your own personal study and leave old Cloud out in the clouds Mike.

 

So this is it?? No context whatsoever, no answer to me whatsoever and prOBably no apologies for slandering another Christian.

 

Matt, this is why your site is dead. You allow blatant heretics to teach their rotten calvinism and to the praise of several here who should know better and you allow a mod to operate who does not accept the doctrinal position of this board. You either need to get a spine Matt or change the doctrinal statement.

 

Thanks Steve, you hit right on the head.

 

No need to find any context Mike, since that book you re quoted from someone else (which the BIble calls tale bearing or gossip) isn't available any more in that edition. That was 1970, and has since been edited down in 1997.

 

Bye now - you stop telling lies Mike, you are a mod don't ya know!

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Mike, I have to concurr with Steve, he is spot on. I have the book you quoted, or should I say, requoted...

Dr Ruckman has made clear time and time again in context exactly what he means when he uses the term "The Greek", it is a text that merely exists in the minds of Bible correcting fools as they can no more produce "The Greek" than you can. There is no such thing. If you actually read any of his books you would have known that. Stick to your own personal study and leave old Cloud out in the clouds Mike.

So this is it?? No context whatsoever, no answer to me whatsoever and prOBably no apologies for slandering another Christian.

Matt, this is why your site is dead. You allow blatant heretics to teach their rotten calvinism and to the praise of several here who should know better and you allow a mod to operate who does not accept the doctrinal position of this board. You either need to get a spine Matt or change the doctrinal statement.

Thanks Steve, you hit right on the head.

No need to find any context Mike, since that book you re quoted from someone else (which the BIble calls tale bearing or gossip) isn't available any more in that edition. That was 1970, and has since been edited down in 1997.

Bye now - you stop telling lies Mike, you are a mod don't ya know!


I make no comment to the information you include here - I am not interested in taking part in the discussion - but the attack against Bro Matt and the tone towards Mike is completely out of line.
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Mike, I have to concurr with Steve, he is spot on. I have the book you quoted, or should I say, requoted...

 

Dr Ruckman has made clear time and time again in context exactly what he means when he uses the term "The Greek", it is a text that merely exists in the minds of Bible correcting fools as they can no more produce "The Greek" than you can. There is no such thing. If you actually read any of his books you would have known that. Stick to your own personal study and leave old Cloud out in the clouds Mike.

 

So this is it?? No context whatsoever, no answer to me whatsoever and prOBably no apologies for slandering another Christian.

 

Matt, this is why your site is dead. You allow blatant heretics to teach their rotten calvinism and to the praise of several here who should know better and you allow a mod to operate who does not accept the doctrinal position of this board. You either need to get a spine Matt or change the doctrinal statement.

 

Thanks Steve, you hit right on the head.

 

No need to find any context Mike, since that book you re quoted from someone else (which the BIble calls tale bearing or gossip) isn't available any more in that edition. That was 1970, and has since been edited down in 1997.

 

Bye now - you stop telling lies Mike, you are a mod don't ya know!

I just re-read he OB doctrinal position -- so, which part of it is not accepted by a mod? Which mod?

 

My son-in law graduated from PBI prior to '97 and doesn't have a newer copy of any textbooks. So, are you saying that no one can quote what another person wrote without managing to  ascertain as to whether a newer edition is out?

 

It looks as if the works he re-quoted were PBI press -- so how is that talebearing? (remember that it is in print available for public purchase)

 

 

In short -- Have a beef with him? Fine -- have at it BUT it definitely looks like you are out of line unless what is on screen and what you sought to convey didn't quite mesh.

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I have to chime in here:

 

To answer the OP:

I am KJV because the Bible demands it.  The Bible promises a perfectly preserved text.  When we study what the Scriptures say about themselves, the only Bible that matches all of the combined criteria is the KJV - none of the other versions come close.  Not even the TR qualifies.

 

 

allow me to play devils advocate here, Where was the perfectly preserved text before the KJV? Why does nOBody hold to a Geneva Bible only position?

 

If as you say God has promised to give us a perfect preserved word, why does it have to be in english?

 

What about Russian? to my knowledge the only Russian Bible translation is from a Critical text, They do not have anything in their language that is perfect, has God failed them or lied to them? If you are willing to admit that God would leave them without a perfect bible, why do we English speaking people think God owes us a perfect english translation? on what basis do we have to say the King James is better than the Geneva, the Bishops, or even the Wycliffe Bible... how can we say we accept by faith that the King James is perfect and preserved, and not be able to apply that to the Geneva Bible translation before it? 

 

Some honest questions that I never find good answers to.

 

Again i am playing devils advocate, I do hold to a King James only position for English.

Edited by Jordan Kurecki
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Jordan,

Where was God's perfectly preserved text prior to 1611?

Everywhere. 

The Russians had their own Bible from the correct text in the 1500's, as did most of the European languages.  That is why the Title Page on the KJV says "with the former translations diligently compared."  The KJV translators checked their work with other current vernacular translations, the Hebrew and Greek texts (rejecting what is now know as the CT), and other ancient translations.  There work was thorough in every sense of the word, unlike the modern slop that is coming out.  The Bibles in European languages at that time were the correct Bibles. 

 

Today, the CT has ruined the translation process.  Most languages has traded in their TR translation in for the CT translation to the extent that it is difficult to find a good translation in many parts of the world simply because nOBody prints the correct version anymore.  But still, the important thing for those people in that situation is their ATTITUDE toward the word of God.   The attitude of the "scholars" is that they think they know more than God, and it is their duty to tell everyone where the Bible is "wrong."  The attitude of the believer is to believe WHAT HE HAS IN HIS HANDS, and trust that the Lord will bless it.  And God will bless them on an individual basis for their faith, even if their Bible is wrong in some places.  Their growth will be stunted to some degree or another, but God is still able to overcome that.  A good missionary will seek to put the right Bible in their hands if at all possible, even if it means producing a new translation from the correct text. 

 

Why English?  It is the universal language of the day.  We send people all over the world to teach English.  It is the dominant language used universally.  In the OT times, if you wanted a copy of the TRUE Scriptures, it was in Hebrew.  Today, it is in English. 

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Jordan,

Where was God's perfectly preserved text prior to 1611?

Everywhere. 

The Russians had their own Bible from the correct text in the 1500's, as did most of the European languages.  That is why the Title Page on the KJV says "with the former translations diligently compared."  The KJV translators checked their work with other current vernacular translations, the Hebrew and Greek texts (rejecting what is now know as the CT), and other ancient translations.  There work was thorough in every sense of the word, unlike the modern slop that is coming out.  The Bibles in European languages at that time were the correct Bibles. 

 

Today, the CT has ruined the translation process.  Most languages has traded in their TR translation in for the CT translation to the extent that it is difficult to find a good translation in many parts of the world simply because nOBody prints the correct version anymore.  But still, the important thing for those people in that situation is their ATTITUDE toward the word of God.   The attitude of the "scholars" is that they think they know more than God, and it is their duty to tell everyone where the Bible is "wrong."  The attitude of the believer is to believe WHAT HE HAS IN HIS HANDS, and trust that the Lord will bless it.  And God will bless them on an individual basis for their faith, even if their Bible is wrong in some places.  Their growth will be stunted to some degree or another, but God is still able to overcome that.  A good missionary will seek to put the right Bible in their hands if at all possible, even if it means producing a new translation from the correct text. 

 

Why English?  It is the universal language of the day.  We send people all over the world to teach English.  It is the dominant language used universally.  In the OT times, if you wanted a copy of the TRUE Scriptures, it was in Hebrew.  Today, it is in English. 

So you are saying that if one wants God's word today, he must learn English? Otherwise, its not God's word? The hundred, nay, thousands of translations into other languages over the years from the TR, into oriental languages, European languages, even native American languages, are all worthless, because they aren't English?

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YAY! 2000 likes!

 

Sorry, back to topic.

 

By the way, not looking for a fight with anyone, and I apologize for what might seem like my pulling an attitude about Peter Ruckman. I admit to not reading a whole lot of his stuff-I have taken the word of some that I trust, but that being said, I should perhaps look a bit more into his actual works.

 

I am not, however, a liar-I did not lie about what I said, and I don't yet know for certain that I am in error about it. But I will look into it. Just hard to find time to read everything that is out there.

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YAY! 2000 likes!

 

Sorry, back to topic.

 

By the way, not looking for a fight with anyone, and I apologize for what might seem like my pulling an attitude about Peter Ruckman. I admit to not reading a whole lot of his stuff-I have taken the word of some that I trust, but that being said, I should perhaps look a bit more into his actual works.

 

I am not, however, a liar-I did not lie about what I said, and I don't yet know for certain that I am in error about it. But I will look into it. Just hard to find time to read everything that is out there.

 

Like! 

:coverlaugh:

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YAY! 2000 likes!

 

Sorry, back to topic.

 

By the way, not looking for a fight with anyone, and I apologize for what might seem like my pulling an attitude about Peter Ruckman. I admit to not reading a whole lot of his stuff-I have taken the word of some that I trust, but that being said, I should perhaps look a bit more into his actual works.

 

I am not, however, a liar-I did not lie about what I said, and I don't yet know for certain that I am in error about it. But I will look into it. Just hard to find time to read everything that is out there.

Mike, I don't think you are malicious in your intentions.  But these quotes get passed around all the time.  I am telling you as someone who was in his church for 4 years, and sat in his classes for 3 years, and played floor hockey with him during that time, and has read most of his books, and listened to countless hours of his teaching and preaching that those quotes are taken out of context.  

 

They are sarcastic jabs at people who worship Greek and Hebrew.  They are jabs at those who teach preacher boys that the only way they can understand the depths of the Bible is by learning Greek and Hebrew.  These jabs are usually thrown after he shows some tremendous truths that all of the great "scholars" MISSED while they were floundering around in Greek and Hebrew.  His point is simple - if you have a KJV, you have everything you need.  

If you read those quotes in their proper setting, anyone could see it.  Therefore, those who have purposefully LIFTED those quotes out of their proper context did so knowing full well that this was a great distortion and misrepresentation of what Dr. Ruckman believes.  

OF COURSE he believes the original manuscripts were infallible when they were written.  The point is simple - THOSE ORIGINALS DON'T EXIST ANYMORE, so why waste time going back to something we don't have?  We have God's perfect word for us today in the KJV - let's just stick with that, and stop wasting time elsewhere.

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I just re-read he OB doctrinal position -- so, which part of it is not accepted by a mod? Which mod?

 

My son-in law graduated from PBI prior to '97 and doesn't have a newer copy of any textbooks. So, are you saying that no one can quote what another person wrote without managing to  ascertain as to whether a newer edition is out?

 

It looks as if the works he re-quoted were PBI press -- so how is that talebearing? (remember that it is in print available for public purchase)

 

 

In short -- Have a beef with him? Fine -- have at it BUT it definitely looks like you are out of line unless what is on screen and what you sought to convey didn't quite mesh.

 

 

Old - You cant ascertain the context either, at least not on this post, I don´t know what youre bellyaching about.

 

Calvinism is a rotten heresy and it's promoted here all the time.

 

OB doctrinal statement includes a pre trib pre millenial position, MIke does not hold to it, though he is certainly free to choose his eschatology, this board has a stated position, so....

 

Talebearing is repeating a lie told by someone else, it's also called gossip. Mike did not find those quotes himslef but relied upon a secondary source and fell into the trap of publickly stating a matter to be thus when it was not so, as any reading of the context of those quotes would have shown, IF HE HAD ACTUALLY READ THE MATERIAL instead of merely quoting a slanderer.

 

I also know that Mike is not malicious about it, but I was simply making a point.

 

God bless you Mike,

 

calvary

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The originals didn't exist when the translators did the KJV either.

It is a silly argument.

I disagree.  For decades young preachers have gone off to Bible College or Seminary with their faith in the Bible they had grown up reading, studying, memorizing and preaching, only to have some stuffed shirt idiot tell them that their Bibles had mistakes in it, and that they had to learn Greek and Hebrew to know what the "originals" said, and that they would never understand the depths of Bible Doctrine without a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew.  These same over-educated idiots miss OBVIOUS TRUTHS staring at them out of the pages of the KJV.   In the mean time, those students leave these schools with their faith in the Bible and the Holy Spirit destroyed, and they are now dependent on their EDUCATION instead of the HOLY SPIRIT.  

A.T. ROBertson was one of the outstanding NT Greek Scholars of the early 1900's.  He wrote the definitive NT Greek Grammar - over 1500 pages - about the size of a dictionary.  For all of his knowledge of the NT Greek language, he was a dunce when it came to Bible Doctrine.  So while these "scholars" tell these young preachers that a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to have a proper knowledge of the Bible and Bible doctrine, the TRUTH is that having that knowledge is absolutely no guarantee that you will arrive at the truth.  

So, Dr. Ruckman's sarcastic jabs only EXPOSE THEIR LIES.  And he would know - he was still writing Greek and Hebrew verses from memory on the dry erase boards in class when I was in school - he was in his 70's then.  He knows as much about Greek and Hebrew as any "scholar" in the country....that is why they think he is so dangerous.  He can shred their arguments at the drop of a hat with the same knowledge and material they use.  

 

Conclusion? If all you had was a KJV, you would are better off than if you had any edition of any Greek NT available today.  The KJV has everything the Christian needs, and anyone who can read English can get the same information without having to go to Dr. Smellfungus to tell where it is all wrong.

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Old - You cant ascertain the context either, at least not on this post, I don´t know what youre bellyaching about.

 

Calvinism is a rotten heresy and it's promoted here all the time.

 

OB doctrinal statement includes a pre trib pre millenial position, MIke does not hold to it, though he is certainly free to choose his eschatology, this board has a stated position, so....

 

Talebearing is repeating a lie told by someone else, it's also called gossip. Mike did not find those quotes himslef but relied upon a secondary source and fell into the trap of publickly stating a matter to be thus when it was not so, as any reading of the context of those quotes would have shown, IF HE HAD ACTUALLY READ THE MATERIAL instead of merely quoting a slanderer.

 

I also know that Mike is not malicious about it, but I was simply making a point.

 

God bless you Mike,

 

calvary

 

First of all, when a mod says you're out of line, the appropriate response is to pay attention, not demean his comments ('bellyaching').
 

Secondly, I just read through the board rules and doctrinal statement, and I can't see where eschatology is listed in either place. Please copy and paste the URL so we can see what you are referring to. Frankly, it's really not up to you to 'police' the mods - that's BroMatt's jOB. If he has a prOBlem with any of us, he'll take care of it.

I'm not sure what Calvinism has to do with the OP, so let's not muddy the waters with old complaints, eh?

 

The topic is KJV, not Peter Ruckman. Let's see if we can get back to the OP, shall we? :wink

 

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