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Children And The Rapture


Jim_Alaska

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While talking to a brother the other day he asked my opinion of what happens to any children when the Rapture comes. He has very young children. Of course he was alluding to the idea that children that are considered “under the age of accountability” are somehow immune to judgment.

 

I gave him my reasoning on the subject, but don’t think he was totally convinced. I thought this would be a good subject for discussion on this forum. So I am throwing this out for other peoples ideas on this subject. I know what I believe on it and thought it would be an interesting subject for discussion.

 

So basically the question is what happens to any children when the Rapture comes, or if they die before a certain age.

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Genesis 8:21
And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

 

This verse tells me that conscious and purposeful sin in the heart doesn't start until a person is "a youth". No specific age given...just "youth"; which means, a young person.

 

I believe that any child who hasn't reached the point of knowing that they are consciously and purposely sinning...will go to heaven if they die or the rapture occurs.

 

It's hard for me to put that in words that can't be picked apart... :nuts: ...so I hope I at least got the point across.

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King David was certain his son was waiting for him with the Lord. Anyone who pulls scripture out of context and gleefully twists it to proclaim with self righteous piety that God sends infants to hell has never met my Savior, has never personally experienced His love and has never loved children of their own.

 

There you go, Jim. You seem like a good, gentle Godly man, and I'm pretty sure you and I agree on this subject, so I just wanted to help you and your thread by throwing gasoline on the fire :boxing: .

 

I'm feelin' kinda frisky tonight. Must be Momma's homemade, country fried steak.

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Scripture doesn't directly say so we can only speculate.

 

Is everyone in heaven (or hell) going to be the age they were when they died (or were raptured) for all eternity?

 

Some use the idea that children get an automatic pass to heaven if they die young or if the rapture comes as reasoning for why it's no big deal witnessing to children. (yes, there are many prOBlems with that outside the immediate context)

 

Some have actually killed their own children believing they were making sure they went to heaven.

 

Then again, many (even Christians) believe if their children die they become angels.

 

King David may have been referring to seeing his son in heaven, or he may have been referring to the fact he would one day follow him in death. I've heard good sermons preached on both these.

 

What about children who would reach whatever their age of accountability is during the tribulation? Why would they be raptured?

 

Does the idea children will be raptured present an argument that there is more than one way to heaven?

 

If children four and five years old are getting saved, and sometimes younger, does that mean only those 2 and younger will be raptured or go to heaven upon death?

 

There are many different questions but for the most part, Scripture is silent on the matter.

 

I'm content to trust God with the children and eventual eternal destiny without knowing any details.

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Since Jesus Himself said centuries after David's death that Lazarus died and was carried to Abraham's bosom, it is my belief that David could not have been talking about Heaven when he said "I shall go to see him." 

Christ had not yet died and decended into the Earth to set the captives free from the chains of death.  David could only have been speaking of death when he spoke of going to see his son.

As to where the children go?  I believe some perish, and some don't.

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Some are identified as "wicked" as soon as they are born. 

Something to think about.

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I believe that most of us would agree that the central passage of God's own Holy Word concerning the doctrine of the rapture would be 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 -

 

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

 

This portion of God's Word clearly indicates that the resurrection of the rapture will occur for those who are dead "in Christ."  As such, the contextual flow of thought in this portion of God's Word also seems to indicate that the rapture will be experienced by those "in Christ" who are yet alive and remaining at that time.

 

So then I must ask -- Is it Biblically accurate to declare that children first enter this world already "in Christ," and that they remain so until some point of spiritual understanding (commonly referenced as the age or moment of accountability) wherein they become accountable before God for their sinfully and selfishly rebellious character and conduct and become condemned therein under God's all-holy wrath?

 

If the answer to the above question is given as "yes," then I would ask a further question -- Is it Biblically accurate to declare that all children begin with a spiritual possession of "in Christness," that they then lose their "in Christness" at the moment of their spiritual accountability, and that they must then be saved through heart-faith in Christ in order to return unto a spiritual condition of "in Christness"?

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First, I admit that this is a hard topic; I see and understand both sides. I also agree that scripture is silent as to a definite answer.

 

I see and understand SFIC's view (though I believe the baby and David went to Abraham's bosom...not heaven). As SFIC pointed out, the Bible does say "the wicked are estranged from the womb..."

 

Yet, the Bible also says...

 

Deuteronomy 1:39
Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

 

The children had no knowledge of good and evil; therefore, they weren't held accountable for the sin that caused those (who came out of Egypt) to die in the wilderness. It was "unbelief" that caused them not to enter the promised land. So, the children weren't guilty of not believing God...they didn't know to do good (believe) or evil (unbelief).

 

As to Bro. Scott's question...though scripture is silent...I do believe that children are kept safe in Christ until they have "knowledge between good and evil". I'm reminded of Christ's words...

 

Matthew 18:10-14

10   Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11   For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12   How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13   And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14   Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

 

This entire set of verses is about salvation, and I think all of us have prOBably used the 100 sheep example at some point...the man leaves the 99 sheep who are safe (saved), and searches for the one lost sheep (unsaved).  These "salvation verses" are directly linked and nestled in between two verses dealing with "little ones"...and Christ emphasizes that just as it is with the man finding his lost sheep (salvation)...EVEN SO...it's not God's will that a little one should perish.

 

Now, before I make enemies...I will now humbly bow out of this thread also... :nuts:

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This is going to be a tough one on me, having lost two children, one shortly after birth (a matter of days) and one as a toddler.  Emotionally I have a strong inclination and hope that they are indeed waiting for me in heaven, but I must admit this is a thorny issue with no answer clear enough for me to be dogmatic in my answer.  I will watch this thread carefully and do a lot of study.  I am comforted so far in the absence of any scripture that definitely says they are not in heaven, but we do have scriptures that seem to indicate they are.  

 

Bro. Garry

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"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."  Romans 7:7-9
 
What is Paul saying here, that without the law he was alive, but once the commandment came, sin revived and he died? Sin revivied?  I believe the key is here.
 
Paul was born to Juaism, circumcised the 8th day according to the law. How could he have been without the law? Well, I take this to mean that, before he understood the law, the consequence,  or if you will, before he understood sin, right and wrong, that sin was not imputed to him-sin was present, but dead and powerless to kill him. When the commandment came, with understanding, THEN sin revivied, and was imputed to him, and he spiritually died.
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First, I admit that this is a hard topic; I see and understand both sides. I also agree that scripture is silent as to a definite answer.

I see and understand SFIC's view (though I believe the baby and David went to Abraham's bosom...not heaven). As SFIC pointed out, the Bible does say "the wicked are estranged from the womb..."

Yet, the Bible also says...

Deuteronomy 1:39
Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

The children had no knowledge of good and evil; therefore, they weren't held accountable for the sin that caused those (who came out of Egypt) to die in the wilderness. It was "unbelief" that caused them not to enter the promised land. So, the children weren't guilty of not believing God...they didn't know to do good (believe) or evil (unbelief).

As to Bro. Scott's question...though scripture is silent...I do believe that children are kept safe in Christ until they have "knowledge between good and evil". I'm reminded of Christ's words...

Matthew 18:10-14
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

This entire set of verses is about salvation, and I think all of us have prOBably used the 100 sheep example at some point...the man leaves the 99 sheep who are safe (saved), and searches for the one lost sheep (unsaved). These "salvation verses" are directly linked and nestled in between two verses dealing with "little ones"...and Christ emphasizes that just as it is with the man finding his lost sheep (salvation)...EVEN SO...it's not God's will that a little one should perish.

Now, before I make enemies...I will now humbly bow out of this thread also... :nuts:

Where does the Bible say that the 99 are safe?
They are in the wilderness, just like the lost one.
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Where does the Bible say that the 99 are safe?
They are in the wilderness, just like the lost one.

No, this would be speaking of kept sheep, as in a flock with a shepherd. Being such myself, and knowing what it is like to have one go astray while the others didn't, means that the 99 remained where they belonged, in the fold. The sheep are counted at the beginning and end of the day, as they go into and out of the fold. If in the evening, one was found missing the othes remained in the fold, safely, usually with the undershepherd, while the shepherd went to find the lost sheep. 

 

I have also had ALL my sheep go missing, save for one that stayed, (she was lame). So been on both sides. But the fact remained that the one(s) who don't stray are not left in the wilderness, but in the fold.In safety.

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Now, before I make enemies...I will now humbly bow out of this thread also... :nuts:

 

 

Where does the Bible say that the 99 are safe?
They are in the wilderness, just like the lost one.

 

I have bowed out of this thread, but since you quoted me and asked a question, I will answer. The Bible doesn't say they are safe. I'm not a shepherd, but I think the context of the story tells us they're safe. Would a shepherd (in Jesus' day) leave all of his other sheep unguarded while going to look for one sheep that was lost? That's a real question that I'm asking. Would a shepherd risk losing more of his flock by leaving them alone while he searches for one lost sheep? I don't know personally, but I don't think he would. I believe he would have left them safe while searching for the one which was lost.

 

While it is true that the Bible does say that it is God's will that no little one should perish. We also know it is equally true that God is not willing that any human perish as 2 Peter 3:9 states.

But though it is not God's will, many do perish.

 

Brother, I actually thought of that verse while I was typing the aforementioned scriptures. The only thing that I can respond with is that the verse in 2 Peter 3:9 also says that he's not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Jesus only said that it's not God's will that one of the little ones should perish. He didn't say anything about the little ones should also come to repentance.

 

Just my OBservation.

 

Okay...I'm bowing out...again.  :nuts:

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