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Advice On Explaining These Scriptures To Sister


GraceSaved

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I know I posted a topic before about the ongoing debate I am having with my sister about the purpose and usage of speaking in tongues, but this is a little more detailed as I have gone deeper into the discussion with her.

These are the scriptures my sister is using to determine that speaking in tongues is ok to use in a private prayer language as taught by the charismatic movement.

1 Cor 14:2 speaking unto God

v. 4 edifieth himself

v. 15 I will pray with the spirit, and will pray with the understanding also; I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also; (she uses this scripture to indicate there are two types of tongues. One spiritual for private use and the other is a known language to use in a corporate setting with interpretation for edification of all).

v. 18-19 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all. Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. (This verse she uses that Paul spoke a private prayer language more than anyone else but he didn't do it in the church).

v. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

v. forbid not to speak with tongues.

Isaiah 28:11 She says this verse indicates it is still used for today as a sign to unbelievers and because it says "stammering lips that it is a spiritual language.

I think I've said all I can but thought I'd give it one more shot if I missed something someone can shed some light on.

I hope this is not confusing.

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If you look up "edify", "edification" etc you find only one verse that clearly indicates edifying of self, and it is that verse. All others seem to indicate edification of others.
The verse itself is contrasting self edification and edification of the church. One is good, one is not. We are not lift ourselves up. We are not to boast of purse lives. We are to esteem other more highly than ourselves.

Her understanding of edify self is wrong - it is a rebuke, not a commendation.

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I can only speak from my own experience in this area, that being from my own contact and that of friends with others. In the case of those who say they have a special prayer language they use at home, I've found it virtually pointless to get into it with them. They already are determined in what they are doing and not open to hearing anything else.

 

Now, if I were to happen to encounter someone who said they did such but had questions about it, then I would take the time to go into the matter seeing that they had an open heart and mind.

 

Especially if they are confining their supposed prayer language to private home use, I now typically just say I don't understand that, have never done so and don't really see the Bible declaring the necessity of such.

 

From the way some have spoken about their prayer language, I wonder if perhaps they aren't simply trying to appear more spiritual by saying such when perhaps they don't even speak in such tongues. That's just speculation, and just applies to some, but from things they've said, that's the impression I got.

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I do agree with John on this. We had a guy coming for About two years - great guy, enthusiastic, encouraging. No doubt about his salvation.
Going through a series and I came to tongues. After the message he came and spoke to me - nicely, no argument nor contention - and said he believed tongues were for private edification only.
He had never mentioned it to anyone else as far as I know. We chatted and I pointed out as above. He said he would think about the verses and study. He never talked to me again about it and as far as I know never talked to anyone else at church about it. Some time later they moved states, but not because of that.

It was never an issue for him, he never caused trouble over it, he never tried to influence others about it.

And we still got along fine.

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Like Dave, I've no prOBlem with those who keep the matter personal and private. It's those "tongue talkers" who think they have to do that in public and declare that one either doesn't really have the Holy Spirit fully or they aren't even saved if they don't talk in tongues that I have a prOBlem with.

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Dave: I did tell her it was a reprimand.

John: I think you and Dave are right. I think I've showed her all I can and it's time to let her decide for herself. There is no contention between us but I better let it go so as not to let it get that far. She seems to have her mind made up about it. With what you guys shared, it does help me to let it go. Thanks guys.

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GracedSaved  if I may ask is your sister involved in the Charismatic church. there's a simple way to approach someone out of the charismatic church that wants to debate Gods Word and debate any scriptures or answers one has giving to them concerning anything written in Gods Word.

I learned this from a evangelist many years ago and I've used it to answer many of their questions as well as others too leading them to trust in Jesus as their savior. I'm not posting it not knowing if your sister is saved or unsaved and involved with the charismatic church or you're just discussing the topic of speaking in tongues I wouldn't want you to be confused or misunderstand about what I'm saying.

 

I agree with Brother Dave and brother John I had the most of the same thoughts as in there post '' thanks brothers ''

 

Praying for you and your sister to resolve this debate with peace in His Name.

 

God Bless 

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EK:  She started off in AOG.  For years she has been very involved with a woman's organization called Aglow International.  She directed me to their website for an explanation of tongues.  I was appalled when I read "We believe the Lord wants His people to speak in tongues because it was the normative experience following (or accompanying) salvation in the early church."  I told her she should be concerned that they are associating it with salvation.  She said "It accompanied mine and I've been using it since."  That's when I decided she had made up her mind of what she believes.  I told her our experiences should not triumph scripture and encouraged her to search scriptures on salvation and prayer.  I explained to her the basics of hermeneutics.  Haven't heard from her since but will keep praying. 

 

What is the approach you are referring to?

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My question on this subject is why do we fleshly people think that we have to speak in some unknown language in order for an all knowing God to understand it?

 

What does it profit anyone to speak in another language except to present the gospel in another land.

 

Paul said "Woe unto me if I preach not the gospel" 1 Corinthians 9:16

 

John said we have an advocate with the Father. Someone who pleads to God on our behalf. 1 John 2:1

 

The only appeal I see in speaking in tounges is to show others that you are "more spiritual" than they are. That is of the flesh and puffeth up a person.  At no time do you have to prove you are saved to anyone. Your fruits will identify you as part of the vine. 

 

Romans 8:26 Our spirit makes intercession for us because sometimes we don't know what to pray for but we know it needs prayer. Have you ever had a heavy heart and not known why? Had someone on your mind and not know why? That sort of thing.

 

Here is a picture of the order of the hierarchy when in fellowship with God.

 

1. God the Father...sitting on the Throne

 

2. God the Son....makes intercession with the Father on our behalf

 

3. God the Holy Spirit...bares witness for us

 

3. Holy Spirit (in saved man)..Our link to the throne of God

 

2. Mind of man...living in the Spirit becomes the mind of Christ

 

1. Flesh of man....Having the mind of Christ and walking in the Spirit the flesh is then under subjection.

 

If it stays in that order then you have fellowship with God. Knowing that God does not change we can see when fellowship is broken that one of the last three are out of order. Most times we put the flesh above the Holy Spirit even when we don't realize it. Some scientist and really "smart" people put the mind 1st.

 

Sorry if I am rambling or got off topic. Hope this helps.

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I will put forth this as a scriptural possibility that could be interpreted as an unknown prayer language only for the believer...Maybe this is what they are confused about? 

 

Romans 8:26-27 (KJV)
26   Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27  And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

Just a thought..It's not THEM speaking in an unknown prayer language, it is the Holy Spirit Himself making intercession for us because He knows our spirit often better than we do ourselves.

 

Bro. Garry

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Bro. Garry:  Yes.  This is one of those verses she has a hard time getting past the preconceived, out of context teaching she's been subjected to.  I did mention it is the Spirit (capital S) that is doing the interceding for us and not through us with groanings (not audible) and there is no utterance as is with those that are speaking with tongues. 

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