Way Of Life - Millennial Glory And The Final Rebellion

[DaveW]

And Dan does not allow the "last 3 1/2 years" to start at Calvary.
But again, don't let what the Word of God actually says get in the way.

[2bLikeJesus]

2 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
¹⁶  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 

 

Wrest - to twist or turn from the proper course, application, use, meaning, or the like -- Websters Dictionary

 

Nuff said...

 

Bro. Garry

[Covenanter]

And Dan does not allow the "last 3 1/2 years" to start at Calvary.
But again, don't let what the Word of God actually says get in the way.

Now I understand "literally" perfectly. 1,000 years means 1,000 years - 12,000 months not a day more or less, whenever 1,000 years occurs in Scripture, NEVER an indefinite large number, but 70 weeks (of years) that started 483 years before Jesus ministry began can be stretched ad lib to more than 2,500 years and still counting before we reach the 490th year.  Psalm 90:4 Ecc. 6:6  Luke 14:31

 

We have discussed the 70 weeks previously. I believe Scripture records the accuracy & fulfilment of the prophecy.

 

2 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
¹⁶  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 

 

Wrest - to twist or turn from the proper course, application, use, meaning, or the like -- Websters Dictionary

 

Nuff said...

 

Bro. Garry

I presume you are referring to DaveW & his belief that 70x7 is literally greater than 2500. 

[DaveW]

We have discussed the 70 weeks before - and I have shown that Daniel does not allow your interpretation.

You are the one who twists the time lines without justification.
Constantly.
And you ignore details for the simple reason that you don't like them.

You pass of the detailed description of events and creatures as figurative simply because you can abide the idea that you are wrong.
The events of Revelation, which you say have already happened, are of such detailed description that it becomes quite plain that they have not occurred in history.
Because God cannot lie that means they are still to come to pass.

But this doesn't fit your ideas so make up ways to ignore them.

You are constantly spreading your false interpretations in this place, pushing your replacement theology, posting hate against God's chosen nation, twisting scriptures to give support to your various pernicious doctrines and false interpretations.
It is not up to me, but if it were, you would have been banned from this place long ago.

Your rubbish is sickening, and while I will most likely give up on you in this thread, I will continue to point out when you post your false poison.

[Genevanpreacher]

2 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
¹⁶  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 

 

Wrest - to twist or turn from the proper course, application, use, meaning, or the like -- Websters Dictionary

 

Nuff said...

 

Bro. Garry

 

Interestin' point I would like to...um... point out.

 

¹⁵ And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

¹⁶ As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

Did Paul write to the Jews? That is if Peter's epistles are only for the Jews.

Could these have been Gentiles that Peter was writing to?

A close OBservation of the wording of 1 & 2 Peter may reveal that to be true. And if true, kinda messes up the idea of Dispensation teachings.

[Invicta]

With wave of the magic wand of "figurative speech" you dismiss what the Bible describes in great detail, and therefore can ignore any prOBlems you might have.
Then you say the binding took place after the death of Christ, and again ignore the facts of Satan working against Paul and others by saying the Jews are Satan.

So you solve your other prOBlems by assigning a totally different meaning to a term that causes you prOBlems.

You can explain anything you like. It is easy if you just ignore the words used, or change the meanings to suit yourself, or use the magic word "figurative" to make it mean something else entirely.

why can you not just read the passage and understand what it says?

 

Mark 3:27  No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

 

Did Jesus enter the strong man's house and spoil his goods?  

[DaveW]

You can't work the Word of against itself.
Satan will be bound for a thousand years.
This binding had not happened when Paul said Satan hindered him.
At least Paul didn't think Satan was very bound.

You take an analogy and present it against a clear statement.
The clear statement supports the idea that Satan is not yet bound.
Satan is bound at the start of the thousand years spoken of in Rev 20.

The thousand years - which is a thousand years despite what Covey tries to twist it into - has not started yet - too much of Revelation is yet unfulfilled.
Or at least there is no evidence of it being fulfilled on the scale and to the level of detail recorded in Revelation.

Satan is not bound and cast into the pit at this time - not as it says in Rev 20.

[John81]

I still can't see the thousand years as anything other than a literal thousand years. At the same time, I still can't see the 70 weeks as anything other than 70 literal weeks.

[Covenanter]

You can't work the Word of against itself.
Satan will be bound for a thousand years.
This binding had not happened when Paul said Satan hindered him.
At least Paul didn't think Satan was very bound.

You take an analogy and present it against a clear statement.
The clear statement supports the idea that Satan is not yet bound.
Satan is bound at the start of the thousand years spoken of in Rev 20.

The thousand years - which is a thousand years despite what Covey tries to twist it into - has not started yet - too much of Revelation is yet unfulfilled.
Or at least there is no evidence of it being fulfilled on the scale and to the level of detail recorded in Revelation.

Satan is not bound and cast into the pit at this time - not as it says in Rev 20.

NO! It is you you makes the Word of God work against itself.

 

We have very clear & explicit teaching by Jesus & his Apostles, supported by OT prophecy, to the effect that when Jesus returns, he will judge the wicked & establish his perfect, righteous Kingdom.

 

The teaching of Rev. 20 MUST be understood in accord with e.g. The parable of the tares, 2 Thes. 1, 2 Peter 3, Jude. All these allow no place for continued wickedness in Jesus' Kingdom, after he comes for resurrection & judgement.

 

Consider e.g. Mat. 12 & 13:

12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

 

13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away , and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying , Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world ; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil ; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear , let him hear .

 

Jesus did bind the strong man. Note the parable - once the enemy has sown the seeds, they grow, & thrive, while the good seed also grows & thrives. The tares try to smother the good seed without success. The binding of Satan does not stop the wicked tares growing, but it does allow Jesus to free Satan's captives from the nations. The tares are allowed to grow alongside the good seed until the harvest. At the harvest, all the tares & everything that offends are separated & burnt. No future millennium after the harvest.

 

But note the kingdom relates to Rev. 20 - Satan bound, but his seed continues, while the Gospel progresses against persecution. And Satan released, the final rebellion & fire from heaven.

 

The millennium is the good seed/tares time - the present Gospel age. Sinners are being saved & gathered into the Kingdom. But look around - is Satan again released to deceive the nations & gather them for battle?

[John81]

Why then is it called the millennium if it's not an actual millennium?

 

It would seem to me the nations have been and still are deceived and do today as in the past gather for battle. The Hundred Years War, Napoleonic Wars, WWI, WWII.

 

From this side of the pond we often point to the French and Indian War (which was glOBal in scale), the American Revolution (which eventually involved several European nations), the Spanish American War which brought America into the Philippines and protracted combat there against the Philippine fighters, two wars with Iraq amid a "glOBal war on terror".

 

Today we have nations coming together to fight in the Middle East, yet again. Nations are on the brink of war over matters in Ukraine. China is flexing her muscle in Asia, North Korea is a continuing threat. Imagine when China reaches her military build-up goals what would happen if, along with North Korea, she attacked Taiwan, Japan and South Korea. The forces of those nations, as well as the small American forces could likely be decimated and overrun quickly. Then what?

 

What if Russia finally feels all the pushing has now come to shove and she outright invades Ukraine and possibly the Baltic States?

 

The past two thousand years have been filled with war; nations and peoples gathering together for battle. The same continues to this day.

[Covenanter]

Why then is it called the millennium if it's not an actual millennium?

 

It would seem to me the nations have been and still are deceived and do today as in the past gather for battle. The Hundred Years War, Napoleonic Wars, WWI, WWII.

 

From this side of the pond we often point to the French and Indian War (which was glOBal in scale), the American Revolution (which eventually involved several European nations), the Spanish American War which brought America into the Philippines and protracted combat there against the Philippine fighters, two wars with Iraq amid a "glOBal war on terror".

 

Today we have nations coming together to fight in the Middle East, yet again. Nations are on the brink of war over matters in Ukraine. China is flexing her muscle in Asia, North Korea is a continuing threat. Imagine when China reaches her military build-up goals what would happen if, along with North Korea, she attacked Taiwan, Japan and South Korea. The forces of those nations, as well as the small American forces could likely be decimated and overrun quickly. Then what?

 

What if Russia finally feels all the pushing has now come to shove and she outright invades Ukraine and possibly the Baltic States?

 

The past two thousand years have been filled with war; nations and peoples gathering together for battle. The same continues to this day.

I agree with your summary up to a point - not only filled with war, but also with the progress of the Gospel. The past 2,000 years we have seen wheat & tares growing together. Wars & the Gospel of peace with God. Sinners being saved from many nations - & being persecuted. It's what we read in Acts, and what Jesus led us to expect - 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer ; I have overcome the world.
 

There is no hint of a future millennium in the teaching of Jesus & the Epistles. e.g Peter teaches: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store , reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish , but that all should come to repentance.

 

The day of judgement is certainly coming, but until it does, God is showing his longsuffering & desring man to repent. We do not know for how long, & whether a day or a millennium, it will certainly come. John speaks of 1,000 years - a millennium, but Jesus made very clear that we could not know the timing. The answer Jesus gave in effect is: "I can't tell you how long I will be before I come to call everyone to account. Whether a day or 1,000 years, or whatever, your jOB is  to be faithful servants."

 

Through John, Jesus reveals 1,000 years, but that cannot be a precise 1,000 years without contradicting what he has already taught:

31 Heaven and earth shall pass away : but my words shall not pass away . 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed , watch and pray : for ye know not when the time is . 34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch . 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh , at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping . 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch .

 

A "far journey" implies a long time away - so 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh , at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping . 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

 

But there is no suggestion in the OT, nor in the teaching of Jesus & the Epistles, that after his coming for resurrection & judgement, there will be a further millennium of wheat & tares growing together, & another harvest.

 

 

[DaveW]

And Revelation 20 speaks of the thousand years a definite term - which I will continue to point out.
And it does do many times in the space of that chapter.
1000 years is what is meant.

[Genevanpreacher]

God is SOOOO good, to let us discuss threads in a nice way!

[Covenanter]

And Revelation 20 speaks of the thousand years a definite term - which I will continue to point out.
And it does do many times in the space of that chapter.
1000 years is what is meant.

 

A "far journey" implies a long time away - so 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh , at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping . 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

 

But there is no suggestion in the OT, nor in the teaching of Jesus & the Epistles, that after his coming for resurrection & judgement, there will be a further millennium of wheat & tares growing together, & another harvest.

Unless, of course you can point to Scriptures in the Gospels & Epistles where a millennium is taught, occurring after Jesus' coming for resurrection & judgement. A millennium ultimately populated by Satan-led rebels, the glorious millennium Kingdom of the Lord Jesus going very evil.

[DaveW]

Still a thousand years.
Doesn't matter how many times you try to explain it away.
It says a thousand years. It means a thousand years.