Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Way Of Life - Millennial Glory And The Final Rebellion


RSS Robot

Recommended Posts

  • Members

I hope you are right - some folks here teach that only Paul's letters are for the church of the present "dispensation" & that the Gospels & Hebrews to Revelation are for the tribulation & Jews in the millennium. And teach a different Gospel for other "dispensations."

I was only referring to the present discussion at hand.

 

Those who put forth different gospels, different means of salvation, under the guise of "greater understanding", are indeed among those who would fall into the category of wolves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 146
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Moderators

I was only referring to the present discussion at hand.

 

Those who put forth different gospels, different means of salvation, under the guise of "greater understanding", are indeed among those who would fall into the category of wolves.

And when you think about it, since Paul sid he only believed in and taught ONE gospel, what then did he preach to the Jews with whom he met often? Which 'faith' was he speaking of when he said we should contend for the faith ONCE delivered to the saints? Jesus was the one who once delivered the faith, so that one faith cannot consist of more than one gospel.

 

Granted, generically-speaking, 'gospel' means good news, so when someone tells me that I got a bonus in my paycheck, they are delivering me a gospel, good news, so really, a specific 'gospel of the kingdom', the good news that Jesus will rule and reign on earth, IS indeed good news, but it is not a gospel that saves, rather is the result OF the gospel that saves, that WE will be there, present IN that kingdom. THAT'S good news, to be certain!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I was only referring to the present discussion at hand.

 

Those who put forth different gospels, different means of salvation, under the guise of "greater understanding", are indeed among those who would fall into the category of wolves.

 

And it logically follows, therefore, John, that when you say that none of the different end times views currently being put forth do represent a false means of salvation, as you did in post 129, and then others indicate that they disagree with you, then they must be saying that one needs to have the correct end-times view to be saved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

And it logically follows, therefore, John, that when you say that none of the different end times views currently being put forth do represent a false means of salvation, as you did in post 129, and then others indicate that they disagree with you, then they must be saying that one needs to have the correct end-times view to be saved.

I have heard a few Christians over the years say that if one didn't have the "right" (meaning whatever view they held to) view regarding the end times, that was a sign they weren't saved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.  Gal 1:6-7

 

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom

shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.  Matt 24:13-14

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Preterism is of course misguided interpretation but seemingly harmless in some respects and apportionately palitable in some ways, though grossly inconsistent with most Scripture overall.

In its basic form, Preterism teaches that the Olivet prophecies were fulfilled in the first C, up to AD 70, with the judgement of "this generation" for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

Also, as the opening verses of Revelation teach, the prophecy as a whole is concerned with the AD 70 judgement (and the temple still standing in Rev. 11.) We reject lifting the prophecy into post-rapture tribulation where Christians are absent, & teaching a premil second coming. We see perfect fulfilment of all prophecy at Jesus' return, for resurrection & judgement in the NH&NE.

 

I read Covs posts and at some points think "hmm, I can see how they might come to this conclusion" however, how can that conclusion be reconciled to this, this, this and a hundreds thats.

Thank you for that. It must be because I always quote supporting Scripture, & try to answer pertinent questions.

 

It is the inherent accompanying doctrine of replacement that does red flag it as heresy IMO. 

Replacement theology in its basic form is taught by Jesus in his "Husbandmen" parable - 9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do ? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. (Mark 12) and by Paul e.g. in Gal. 3:

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

People who accuse me of RT do so by developing their own version, as if all Jews are rejected, & all the promises claimed by the church. No so - repentant Jews who acknowledge their Messiah are welcomed into the church of Jesus Christ. Sadly they are rejected by family & community, & in becoming jesus-believing children of Abraham, they lose their Jewish identity in a generation or so. How many ethnic children of Abraham are among the redeemed, only God knows. And, of course, there is absolutely no justification for persecuting Jews, nor Christians, nor anyone else. Those in the forefront of persecuting Jews persecuted baptists.   

 

I will hand it to the wolves though, you are wearing much better sheep suits. I can hardly see the zipper at all in this thread. N/C

As far as this thread is concerned, the concept of a millennial kingdom after Jesus return populated ultimately by hordes of ungodly sinners, is completely unknown in the Gospels & Epistles, which calls such teaching into question. In every reference, Jesus returns for resurrection & judgement, not to establish an earthly kingdom similar to the present age. See e.g. Mat. 13 - his parable of the tares, 2 Thes. 1, 2 Peter 3.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

MountainChristian: Also do you see the Jewish nation's return as a big sign of Jesus' return?

No, they are there in unbelief & rejection of their Messiah. There are no promises of such restoration in Gospels, Epistles, nor Revelation. Paul in Rom. 11 says 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in : for God is able to graff them in again. Is Paul in that chapter teaching what we see today? I think you will all agree, Not. OBviously there is the fulfilment of the promises being taught -

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in . 26 And so all Israel shall be saved : as it is written , There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer , and shall turn away ungodliness from JacOB: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes : but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

 

Lots of questions raised, which I will ask but not answer in this post:

1. Blindness in part, but what about the many thousands who believed, as recorded in Acts?

2. What is meant by "the fulness of the Gentiles" & when will/did that come in?

3. Does "all Israel shall be saved" include the Gentile believers, as Paul indicated earlier in Romans 2-4 ?

4. Is Paul's quote from Isaiah 59:20 in the future tense because it is an exact quotation, i.e was future, but fulfilled by Jesus in his saving work, or is it yet future?

5. Was the covenant prophecy fulfilled at Calvary, by the NC is Jesus' blood?

6. Do the OT prophecies relating to Israel require a temporary millennial fulfilment ending in a worldwide rebellion, or an eternal fulfilment in the NH&NE, wherein all families on earth find the promised blessings through Abraham's Seed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

No, they are there in unbelief & rejection of their Messiah. There are no promises of such restoration in Gospels, Epistles, nor Revelation. Paul in Rom. 11 says 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in : for God is able to graff them in again. Is Paul in that chapter teaching what we see today? I think you will all agree, Not. OBviously there is the fulfilment of the promises being taught -

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in . 26 And so all Israel shall be saved : as it is written , There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer , and shall turn away ungodliness from JacOB: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes : but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

 

Lots of questions raised, which I will ask but not answer in this post:

1. Blindness in part, but what about the many thousands who believed, as recorded in Acts?

2. What is meant by "the fulness of the Gentiles" & when will/did that come in?

3. Does "all Israel shall be saved" include the Gentile believers, as Paul indicated earlier in Romans 2-4 ?

4. Is Paul's quote from Isaiah 59:20 in the future tense because it is an exact quotation, i.e was future, but fulfilled by Jesus in his saving work, or is it yet future?

5. Was the covenant prophecy fulfilled at Calvary, by the NC is Jesus' blood?

6. Do the OT prophecies relating to Israel require a temporary millennial fulfilment ending in a worldwide rebellion, or an eternal fulfilment in the NH&NE, wherein all families on earth find the promised blessings through Abraham's Seed?

 

Well Ian, would you like to give a complete expounding of Romans 11?

 

And perhaps one of the futurists will as well?

 

I have just read a book by a Poat-mil writer and no doubt that would be different from both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Well Ian, would you like to give a complete expounding of Romans 11?

 

And perhaps one of the futurists will as well?

 

I have just read a book by a Poat-mil writer and no doubt that would be different from both.

You could start another thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Well considering vs 25 separates the Gentiles from Israel, there is absolutely no reason to include Gentiles with Israel in vs 26.

Paul teaches the unity of believing Jews & Gentiles in Christ, but separates Jew & Gentile as unbelievers from the Church:

 

Eph. 2:11 Wherefore remember , that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

 

1 Cor. 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

 

He has already taught in Romans:

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe , though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The article in the OP does not mention Ezekiel's temple & the sin offerings of sacrificed animals:

 

A millennial temple to Ezekiel's pattern is commonly taught, but surely any renewal of sacrifices is an rejection of Christ's sacrifice at Calvary. The "millennial temple" is the Church comprising all the redeemed, Jew & Gentile as one people of God:

 

Eph. 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming , as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

 

There can NEVER be an acceptable stone temple nor a renewal of acceptable animal sacrifices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...