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AVBibleBeliever

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I agree. It means, as far as I can see, that EVERYTHING is holy unto God in that time-not just the holy items in the temple, but ALL pots and bowls everywhere will be holy before the Lord, all set apart and anctified to the service of God. Interesting to note, as well, that upon the bells of the horses, it says HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD, because horses were an unclean animal under the law, but here, even the horses are holy unto God.

And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.  1 Kings 4:26

I believe that it means that the horses (used for transport?) will have decorations that read "Holiness Unto the Lord".

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And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.  1 Kings 4:26

I believe that it means that the horses (used for transport?) will have decorations that read "Holiness Unto the Lord".

perhaps, possible. But who's to say we won't still, i dunno, drive cars? Does Jesus' return necessarily mean all technology will be done away with, and we will be a world of Amish, riding horse-drawn buggies?  Or maybe it just means that EVERYTHING will be holy and set apart for the Lord?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Drive cars with what fuel?  Remember, only those with the mark of the beast will be able to buy supplies such as fuel.  Most of modern technology will be unavailable to the righteous in the last days.  In light of this, it is entirely understandable that we may well indeed be a "world of Amish" in those days.

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Drive cars with what fuel?  Remember, only those with the mark of the beast will be able to buy supplies such as fuel.  Most of modern technology will be unavailable to the righteous in the last days.  In light of this, it is entirely understandable that we may well indeed be a "world of Amish" in those days.

I think we were talking about during the milennial reign of Christ? Am I on the wrong page?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Sorry...I am skipping through multiple threads on my lunch break.  I am the one who could be mistaken. I sometimes get the topics of a thread jumbled up and post a response in the wrong place, especially since some "hOBby horse" topics somehow worm their way into multiple threads.  

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

perhaps, possible. But who's to say we won't still, i dunno, drive cars? Does Jesus' return necessarily mean all technology will be done away with, and we will be a world of Amish, riding horse-drawn buggies?  Or maybe it just means that EVERYTHING will be holy and set apart for the Lord?

Much of the surface of the earth will be destroyed and the population decimated. 

I'm assuming that during the Day of Wrath (last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation, Day of JacOB's Trouble),

Babylon the Great is totally destroyed, and hailstones and asteroids will have destroyed satellites, etc.

so that there is total economic collapse.  So, returning back to a pre-industrial civilization is the result.

 

 

And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,

and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the

LORD of hosts hath spoken it.  Micah 4:3-4

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Much of the surface of the earth will be destroyed and the population decimated. 

I'm assuming that during the Day of Wrath (last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation, Day of JacOB's Trouble),

Babylon the Great is totally destroyed, and hailstones and asteroids will have destroyed satellites, etc.

so that there is total economic collapse.  So, returning back to a pre-industrial civilization is the result.

 

 

And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,

and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the

LORD of hosts hath spoken it.  Micah 4:3-4

That's why I am working on my solar-powered, electric car! Yeah, baby! I'll park it in my underground bunker in the desert, and when Jesus comes, I'll dig it up and drive it. Except I'll be resurrected and won't need it, soooo....

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

If you wasn't saved by belief, how was you saved?

I was not saved by believing Jesus was the Christ.

 

I was not saved by believing Jesus was the Messiah.

 

I was not saved by believing Jesus was the son of God.

 

I was saved by grace through faith that Jesus was the sacrifice for my sins when he died a substitutionary death on the Cross for me and rose again the third day to provide me with Everlasting Life.  I believed that and I received salvation and I confessed it with my mouth.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Ok, got it.

I see it as teaching the opposite of the renewal of sacrifice.

I see it as saying that everyone's own pot, in their own house, is now sacred, and everyone a priest, taking his priestly portion from his own pot.

the context clearly shows that it is all Israel's pots are holy that is because they become a nation of priests.  Not all people of the world.

 

there is plenty in Zac 14 that has not taken place so it is not all historical, it is also prophetic of the millennial.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

But who was the Jesus you believed in? 

Jesus Christ,.

 

But believing he is the Christ does not save anyone.  the gospel of Grace is about his atoning death on the cross for all men.  Only belief on the cross of Christ saves.

 

up until Paul he death burial and resurrection was reserved only for Israel.

 

Anyone today who teaches that you get saved just by believing Jesus is the Chrsit, of the Messiah, or the son of God is teachig another gospel.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

How can someone believe in Jesus without knowing who he is? I'm not trying to be a smart-alack, but that doesn't make sense.

 

The way that I'm taking what you're saying is...all you have to do is believe that some guy named Jesus died as a sacrifice for your sins on a cross, was buried, and rose from the dead on the third day.

 

Why could he die for your sins? What enabled him to rise from the dead? Not just anyone could do that. Only the Son of God could.

 

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

It doesn't say that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus. You have to realize and believe who he is before you can confess him; otherwise, it's a false confession. 

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Jesus Christ,.

 

But believing he is the Christ does not save anyone.  the gospel of Grace is about his atoning death on the cross for all men.  Only belief on the cross of Christ saves.

 

up until Paul he death burial and resurrection was reserved only for Israel.

 

Anyone today who teaches that you get saved just by believing Jesus is the Chrsit, of the Messiah, or the son of God is teachig another gospel.

Up until Paul-at what point? When Paul was sent out of the church at Antioch, or the moment of his conversion?

 

And by the way, on Pentecost, who says all those saved were of Israel? They were of many nations, many languages, not just israelites who had migrated, but these were people who heard the languaes of the places where they were born. In 'our own tongues'. So, not of Israel. converts, perhaps? Jews, yes, but not necessarily Israelites.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The 4 Gospels that AVBB says are only for the Jews, are the ONLY source for us to know the truth about Jesus Christ.

How shall they believe in him in whom they have not heard?

 

I know this might seem silly, but ever look up the word 'faith' and the word 'believe' in a Greek dictionary?

Faith - pistis.

Believe - pisteuo.

 

Almost the same thing.

 

An interesting definition - Faith - "conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God

                                                     and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it relating to God..."

 

So to be saved by grace (God's merciful grace) through faith (true heart-felt belief), is Biblical salvation, by believing with all your heart.

Seems pretty simple to me.

 

If thou believest with all thine heart thou mayest...

Good enough for the Eunuch? Good enough for anyone!

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

 

2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

 

Here's a study for you AV...

 

Look in Paul's epistles and see how many times he uses the terms...

  1. Jesus Christ
  2. Christ Jesus
  3. Son of God
  4. Lord Jesus Christ
  5. Lord Jesus

...then look and see how many times he only uses the name Jesus (without any of the aforementioned) by itself. Then look to see how many times the Lord's name is mentioned alone without the use of one of the aforementioned immediately before it's mentioned alone.

 

The Holy Spirit went to great extremes to use Paul to let it be known that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Jesus Christ,.

 

But believing he is the Christ does not save anyone.  the gospel of Grace is about his atoning death on the cross for all men.  Only belief on the cross of Christ saves.

 

up until Paul he death burial and resurrection was reserved only for Israel.

 

Anyone today who teaches that you get saved just by believing Jesus is the Chrsit, of the Messiah, or the son of God is teachig another gospel.

 

 

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ, is born of God, and everyone that loveth him, which begat, loveth him also which is begotten of him."

 

"He that believeth in the Son of God, hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God, hath made him a liar, because he believed not the record, that God witnessed of his Son."

 

"These things have I written unto you, that believe in the Name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe in the Name of the Son of God."

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ, is born of God, and everyone that loveth him, which begat, loveth him also which is begotten of him."

 

"He that believeth in the Son of God, hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God, hath made him a liar, because he believed not the record, that God witnessed of his Son."

 

"These things have I written unto you, that believe in the Name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe in the Name of the Son of God."

 

 

I agree with you, but according to AV's view...that is only for the Jews; therefore, it doesn't really apply to anyone else.

 

Just so you know where he's coming from...and AV, I'm not doing this to mock you...I'm just letting GenevanPreacher know the basics of your belief.

 

The Old Testament, the four Gospels, the book of Hebrews, and the general epistles (James through Revelation) are only for Israel. Paul's epistles are for us (the church) today...

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

the context clearly shows that it is all Israel's pots are holy that is because they become a nation of priests. Not all people of the world.

there is plenty in Zac 14 that has not taken place so it is not all historical, it is also prophetic of the millennial.

We are all priests now, and we will be there.

Unless you think our priesthood gets revoked and we return to needing representatives to Jesus, who now physically sits on the throne in Jerusalem?

The truth is, there will be no need for sacrifice, the sacrifice has been made. But in Zach's day, no one in Israel could imagine the world without sacrifice, so God included the idea of the priest's portion flesh pots being equal to everyone's pots.... yes a Nation of priests, but not carrying out sacrifice...that is OVER.
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