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AVBibleBeliever

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It's the Holy Spirit that reveals to you that you are a sinner and God is holy

In my case, there was a 10 year gap between the two, and I never attended

any church prior to the second or had anyone even mention God to me.

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It's the Holy Spirit that reveals to you that you are a sinner and God is holy

In my case, there was a 10 year gap between the two, and I never attended

any church prior to the second or had anyone even mention God to me.

 

Every knows they are not perfect - we are all sinners - but are you saying that in some way you were saved by knowing you were a sinner BEFORE you knew about a Holy God, or even knew about Jesus & his saving work?

 

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said , Father, the hour is come ; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I agree with you, but according to AV's view...that is only for the Jews; therefore, it doesn't really apply to anyone else.

 

Just so you know where he's coming from...and AV, I'm not doing this to mock you...I'm just letting GenevanPreacher know the basics of your belief.

 

The Old Testament, the four Gospels, the book of Hebrews, and the general epistles (James through Revelation) are only for Israel. Paul's epistles are for us (the church) today...

 

Yes, I am aware of AVBB and his 'belief'(?). Thanks.

 

And that is where the 'fake' belief he espouses possibly starts, with thinking there are gonna be 'two' eternal life's.

 

Read where the Jews said this: "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life" (Acts 11:18)

Seems they thought 'life' was going to be the same for both.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

no NIC, stop acting like you know anything concerning what I believe.

 

This is what I believe 1Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 Ro 5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
 Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

No one, NOT ONE is saved by believing Jesus is the Christ, or believing he is the Messiah or believing he is the son of God.  He may be everyone of those things but those things don't save.

 

If any of you got saved by believing Jesus is the son of God, or he is the Christ or the Messiah You are LOST LOST LOST.

 

Only belief in the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on the cross SAVES and gives you eternal life. that he died on that cross for you personally and paid the penalty for your sin and rose again the third day.  that is the gospel of Grace and it is that grace alone through faith that saves.

 

The devils know Jesus is Christ, they know he is the son of God, and that he is the Messiah and they believe it all, but they are a lost. 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

no NIC, stop acting like you know anything concerning what I believe.

 

This is what I believe 1Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 Ro 5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
 Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

No one, NOT ONE is saved by believing Jesus is the Christ, or believing he is the Messiah or believing he is the son of God.  He may be everyone of those things but those things don't save.

 

If any of you got saved by believing Jesus is the son of God, or he is the Christ or the Messiah You are LOST LOST LOST.

 

Only belief in the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on the cross SAVES and gives you eternal life. that he died on that cross for you personally and paid the penalty for your sin and rose again the third day.  that is the gospel of Grace and it is that grace alone through faith that saves.

 

The devils know Jesus is Christ, they know he is the son of God, and that he is the Messiah and they believe it all, but they are a lost. 

 

Wow! Do you not understand that that is why Jesus is called Christ and Messiah? That he would be the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world?

I thought that was a firm understanding betwixt believers.

 

Actually what you are saying AVBB, is that we both are correct.

 

Believing in Jesus Christ  (with all your heart, not like the devils, mind you!) does entail the very details you said.

 

I just think you are misunderstanding the concept we are discussing.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It's the Holy Spirit that reveals to you that you are a sinner and God is holy

In my case, there was a 10 year gap between the two, and I never attended

any church prior to the second or had anyone even mention God to me.

 

Every knows they are not perfect - we are all sinners - but are you saying that in some way you were saved by knowing you were a sinner BEFORE you knew about a Holy God, or even knew about Jesus & his saving work?

 

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said , Father, the hour is come ; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

I too, would like to hear an answer Covenanter! Sounds suspicious.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

... mixing the Gospel of Grace with the Gospel of the Messianic Kingdom...  "remnants" of the "Holy" Roman Church.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

AVBB, this disagrees with you.

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

no NIC, stop acting like you know anything concerning what I believe.

 

This is what I believe 1Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 Ro 5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
 Ro 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

No one, NOT ONE is saved by believing Jesus is the Christ, or believing he is the Messiah or believing he is the son of God.  He may be everyone of those things but those things don't save.

 

If any of you got saved by believing Jesus is the son of God, or he is the Christ or the Messiah You are LOST LOST LOST.

 

Only belief in the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on the cross SAVES and gives you eternal life. that he died on that cross for you personally and paid the penalty for your sin and rose again the third day.  that is the gospel of Grace and it is that grace alone through faith that saves.

 

The devils know Jesus is Christ, they know he is the son of God, and that he is the Messiah and they believe it all, but they are a lost. 

 

You forgot to underline something while you were underlining...

 

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

 

Now...if you're saying that no one is saved by ONLY believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, etc., minus the rest of the gospel, then I agree with that. However, a person can't be saved if they don't believe in the biblical Jesus...who is the Christ/Messiah, Son of God, and Lord.

 

By the way...who on here has ever said that a person gets saved by merely believing that Jesus is Christ/Messiah or the Son of God? As far as I recall, you're the only one who's ever brought that up.

 

As far as whether I know anything about what you believe...I said that I was giving GenevanPreacher THE BASICS of your beliefs. Was I wrong? I was only going by things you've said in the past. 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Acts 4:12 (KJV)
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


I have that verse in my email signature. ;)
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You forgot to underline something while you were underlining...

 

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

 

Now...if you're saying that no one is saved by ONLY believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, etc., minus the rest of the gospel, then I agree with that. However, a person can't be saved if they don't believe in the biblical Jesus...who is the Christ/Messiah, Son of God, and Lord.

 

By the way...who on here has ever said that a person gets saved by merely believing that Jesus is Christ/Messiah or the Son of God? As far as I recall, you're the only one who's ever brought that up.

 

As far as whether I know anything about what you believe...I said that I was giving GenevanPreacher THE BASICS of your beliefs. Was I wrong? I was only going by things you've said in the past. 

Believing he is the Christ does not saved.  You can add to the gospel of Grace if you want but it is not necessary.

 

You misunderstand what I said in the past that is why I started this Video Thread on dispensations.

 

Certain doctrines do not apply to the current age.  The many of you accuse me of saying I eliminate scriptures for us today and IA don't.  Even some of you added that I advocate throwing away books of the Bible that are not doctrinally for us today.  Even in this thread I never said that knowledge of who Jesus is, like: Christ, messiah and the son of God was needed I said that that knowledge does not save.  What saves us is what he did not who he is.

 

I started a thread on communication because many of you are reading between lines and adding your attitudes, and attributes and words, to my posts when you read them.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This thread has come to an end for me. I've tried to be a help; I've backed up what I said with scripture. It has become a debate, and long ago I chose to do my best to steer clear of debating God's word. I broke my own conviction...so I apologize for letting it get that far.

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  • Moderators

Seems to me, if one doesn't knoW WHO Jesus is, we really can't have faith that He can do anything for us. Otherwise, we ask like Pharoah, "Who is the LORD, that I should OBey his voice...?"  Who is Jesus, that He can do anything for me?

 

Well, He is the Messiah, the promised one of God, revealed in Genesis 3 as the one who would bruise the serpent's, Satan's, head, which He did on Calvary. Etc, etc, prophecies, David, Solomon, etc..." 

 

What seems to be being espoused here by some is the basics of easy-believeism, "Just believe in Jesus and that He died for your sins, and you can go to heaven! Yay!"  ALL the information in the Bible about Jesus, from Moses and the prophets, the gospels and the epistles are 'able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2Tim 3;15)  What scriptures do we think Paul was talking about to TImothy, that he knew from childhood? Certainly not the NEW Testament. Timothy was only half Hebrew, half Greek, raised by a Greek father and trained in both, but it wsas the OT that Paul lauded to him as being able to make him saved by faith in Christ Jesus. Not by the law or works or any such thing.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

NN, you have put forth what the Word clearly says, using the Word to do so. Some have chosen to reject what the Word clearly says. At such a point the Word does tell us to shake the dust off our feet and move on.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Yet one must believe He is the Christ in order to be saved. Scripture is clear on that point.

Outside of the Gospel writings show me a verse where Paul says you must believe "he is the Christ" or you wont be saved?

 

You can call on his name to be saved but that calliing is not without understanding of his substitutionary death on the cross

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Some of you are gong far beyond foolishness.

 

The gospel of Grace is the finished work of the Cross.  The preaching of this Cross is what is done and it may include knowledge of Who Jesus is.

 

However the point you are all missing is without the knowledge of the cross and that he died for your sins there is no salvation in this age in just believing he is the Christ, the Messiah or the Son of God as it was during his earthly ministry before the Cross.  and his death burial and resurrection up until Acts 8 was proof he was the Christ, Messiah and the Son of God.  Look in acts 8 the Ethiopian eunuch was a covert to Judaism who confessed he believed Jesus was the son of God.  Not that his sins were forgiven by his cross for him personally.  that came later when it was revealed to Paul.

 

You all are missing the point and adding things that are not in my words and have come to wrong conclusions.  For intelligent people I find this quite perplexing

 

Do you do this when studying God's word?

 

For some of you I find that it may be true.

 

.

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