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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Pre Tribulation Rapture


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Pre Tribulation rapture

The bride, the lamb’s wife, which is the church, is in the new Jerusalem before the last half of the tribulation begins and the seven last vials of plagues are poured out.

 

 

Revelation 21:9-11

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

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Ooo-no, Rev 21 occurs after the wrath was poured out-John just points out that one of the angels which HAD, (previously) the seven vials, etc...  Rev 21 is after the tribulation, after the wrath, after the last judgment, after the heaven and earth pass away.

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Ooo-no, Rev 21 occurs after the wrath was poured out-John just points out that one of the angels which HAD, (previously) the seven vials, etc...  Rev 21 is after the tribulation, after the wrath, after the last judgment, after the heaven and earth pass away.

John is describing the angel he had written about in chapter 16.

 

(When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)

 

 

Revelation 11:3,7,11-14

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

 

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

 

(When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)

 

(The third woe will be the devil cast to the earth where he will persecute Israel for a time, times and half a time or the last 3.5 years of the tribulation.)

 

Revelation 12:12b-14

12b Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

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I would say that the "church" in the present age of grace is the Body of Christ, not "the bride".

 

From Paul's second epistle to the Corinthians...

 

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

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Pre Tribulation rapture

The bride, the lamb’s wife, which is the church, is in the new Jerusalem before the last half of the tribulation begins and the seven last vials of plagues are poured out.

 

 

Revelation 21:9-11

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,  we are told in verse two that the holy city, the new Jerusalem

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

I don't see where it says the Lamb's Bride is the church.  the way this whole chapter looks it is the NEW JERUSALEM that is the Bride.

 

Context is everything and you left out the leading contextual Verses

 

Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  My this is what it says in verse 10 says also so why all the new supposition?

 

So once again where exactly does it say the Bride is the "Church the Body of Christ" or that the church is in the new Jerusalem?

 

you see the prOBlem everyone?

 

Men's opinions, assumptions and suppositions are placed within the verses (pretextually of course, that is without the immediate context) and then they teach this junk to the next generation as Biblical without regard for the curse of adding to the word of God, without fear of God and calling it sound doctrine.

 

this is what JW's and other cults do, they place the words of men within the Bible and teach it as God's word, no worse blasphemy than this could be committed.

 

A key word folks is "AS". As is used to present somthing "similar" but not necessarily the "actual"

 

look here Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.  There eyes were open like God's eyes were to know good and evil.  But does that make them gods?

 

being presented as a chase virgin to a husband is a similitude not a "Actual".  Paul's idea was to present us pure in heart as one present a bride to her husband without spot or blemish of the world.  We are made pure by Christ already so it wasn't to do with actual.  It has to do with ones heart.

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I don't see where it says the Lamb's Bride is the church.  the way this whole chapter looks it is the NEW JERUSALEM that is the Bride.

 

Context is everything and you left out the leading contextual Verses

 

Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  My this is what it says in verse 10 says also so why all the new supposition?

 

So once again where exactly does it say the Bride is the "Church the Body of Christ" or that the church is in the new Jerusalem?

 

you see the prOBlem everyone?

 

Men's opinions, assumptions and suppositions are placed within the verses (pretextually of course, that is without the immediate context) and then they teach this junk to the next generation as Biblical without regard for the curse of adding to the word of God, without fear of God and calling it sound doctrine.

 

this is what JW's and other cults do, they place the words of men within the Bible and teach it as God's word, no worse blasphemy than this could be committed.

 

A key word folks is "AS". As is used to present somthing "similar" but not necessarily the "actual"

 

look here Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.  There eyes were open like God's eyes were to know good and evil.  But does that make them gods?

 

being presented as a chase virgin to a husband is a similitude not a "Actual".  Paul's idea was to present us pure in heart as one present a bride to her husband without spot or blemish of the world.  We are made pure by Christ already so it wasn't to do with actual.  It has to do with ones heart.

 

Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

This only says that the new Jerusalem is prepared "as" a bride...it doesn't say that the new Jerusalem "is" the bride. If the new Jerusalem is the place that Jesus said he would go to prepare (John 14:2)...which I personally believe it is...then Christ is the one who prepared the new Jerusalem "as" a bride. However...

 

Revelation 19:7-8
  7   Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
  8   And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

 

The "bride/wife" has made herself ready (prepared). The bride lives in the new Jerusalem.

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Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

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Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

my brethren is Israel parts of Romans 7 8 and 9 are directed to Israel.

 

My point is YOU nor the OP can unequivocally claim from the Bible that the Body of Christ is in the NEW JERUSALEM.  Not one Bible verse supports those opinions, assumptions, beliefs or suppositions, your words leaven the words of Rev 21 and will lead many astray.  And when you add that to the word of God without the Bible saying it you have corrupted and your are handling the word of God deceitfully.

 

2Cor 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;

2Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God:

 

Jesus did say that many will come, saying, I am the Christ (that is Jesus is the Christ) and deceive many.  We are in those days of men who deceive with all subilty and make merchandise of people (do the word of Ministry for money, 401k's, Cars. homes, jets. boats and other worldly goods) Because their God is their belly.

 

Beware of false teachers that say the body of Christ is here or there,  For they deceive and corrupt the very words of God in this heresy that has been assumed by even IFB pastors.

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my brethren is Israel parts of Romans 7 8 and 9 are directed to Israel.

 

My point is YOU nor the OP can unequivocally claim from the Bible that the Body of Christ is in the NEW JERUSALEM.  Not one Bible verse supports those opinions, assumptions, beliefs or suppositions, your words leaven the words of Rev 21 and will lead many astray.  And when you add that to the word of God without the Bible saying it you have corrupted and your are handling the word of God deceitfully.

 

2Cor 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;

2Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God:

 

Jesus did say that many will come, saying, I am the Christ (that is Jesus is the Christ) and deceive many.  We are in those days of men who deceive with all subilty and make merchandise of people (do the word of Ministry for money, 401k's, Cars. homes, jets. boats and other worldly goods) Because their God is their belly.

 

Beware of false teachers that say the body of Christ is here or there,  For they deceive and corrupt the very words of God in this heresy that has been assumed by even IFB pastors.

 

Okay. 2nd admonition is over now.

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John is describing the angel he had written about in chapter 16.

 

(When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)

 

 

Revelation 11:3,7,11-14

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

 

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

 

(When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)

 

(The third woe will be the devil cast to the earth where he will persecute Israel for a time, times and half a time or the last 3.5 years of the tribulation.)

 

Revelation 12:12b-14

12b Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Not completely sure what this has to do with what we just spoke on

 

Yes, the angel John mentions in Rev 21:9 is the same angel that had the plagues, but this is not the same time period. We need to accept the context when the context is clear, and the clear context here begins in vs1 of the chapter:

 

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife..."

 

So the clear context, time-wise, is after the GWT judgment, after heaven and earth have passed away, after the formation of the new heaven and hew earth-John sees the New Jerusalem descending from heaven, is given a general description of the world which is beginning, and the holiness thereof, and then, one of the angels, the one that had, and presumably passed out, the vials of the wrath of God, comes to speak with John, to show him the bride, the Lamb's wife.

 

On a side note, interestingly, he shows John the Holy City, New Jerusalem, and John gives us a detailed description OF the New Jerusalem. Didn't see a bride anywhere. Oh, maybe it IS the Holy City? Because I don't see anything else. "Let me show you the bride, the Lamb's wife", then, bam onto a mountain, "and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God". Where's the bride? Why would the angel say he was going to shoe John the bride, and then immediately show him New Jerusalem? With no mention of the church anywhere? 

 

But that's for another discussion.

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Okay. 2nd admonition is over now.

From someone who says the body of Christ is in the New Jerusalem without one Bible verse to support his false claim. Talk about a heresy and a heretick?  You have the perfect MO for one.

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Does Scripture say followers of Christ will be known for their snide comments and personal attacks among themselves or by their love for one another?

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Does Scripture say followers of Christ will be known for their snide comments and personal attacks among themselves or by their love for one another?

I did see the snide remark that was about a second admonition.  But your remarks are just as snide filled as his or mine.  you only make yours seem more holy than ours that's all.

 

John81 if we add words to the word of God and claim it to be God's word then we have corrupted, leavened and disOBeyed it.  And that is not being snide but factual.  and if a man will do such he is called a false teacher and an Heretic.  So I am not being snide but truthful.

 

But if you can find a single verse that says the body of Christ is in the new Jerusalem I will close my account here and you will never hear from me again.

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Not completely sure what this has to do with what we just spoke on

 

Yes, the angel John mentions in Rev 21:9 is the same angel that had the plagues, but this is not the same time period. We need to accept the context when the context is clear, and the clear context here begins in vs1 of the chapter:

 

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife..."

 

So the clear context, time-wise, is after the GWT judgment, after heaven and earth have passed away, after the formation of the new heaven and hew earth-John sees the New Jerusalem descending from heaven, is given a general description of the world which is beginning, and the holiness thereof, and then, one of the angels, the one that had, and presumably passed out, the vials of the wrath of God, comes to speak with John, to show him the bride, the Lamb's wife.

 

On a side note, interestingly, he shows John the Holy City, New Jerusalem, and John gives us a detailed description OF the New Jerusalem. Didn't see a bride anywhere. Oh, maybe it IS the Holy City? Because I don't see anything else. "Let me show you the bride, the Lamb's wife", then, bam onto a mountain, "and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God". Where's the bride? Why would the angel say he was going to shoe John the bride, and then immediately show him New Jerusalem? With no mention of the church anywhere? 

 

But that's for another discussion.

Eternity

 

Revelation 21:1-8

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

 

Kingdom age

 

Isaiah 65:17-25

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: (After Tribulation) and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days (Still Death) for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring (Birth) with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

 

Ezekiel 47:1-12

 

The sea will be healed during the kingdom age.

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I did see the snide remark that was about a second admonition.  But your remarks are just as snide filled as his or mine.  you only make yours seem more holy than ours that's all.

 

John81 if we add words to the word of God and claim it to be God's word then we have corrupted, leavened and disOBeyed it.  And that is not being snide but factual.  and if a man will do such he is called a false teacher and an Heretic.  So I am not being snide but truthful.

 

But if you can find a single verse that says the body of Christ is in the new Jerusalem I will close my account here and you will never hear from me again.

IMO the argument about the body, the bride & the new Jerusalem is discussion of a foolish question. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. As here.

 

The are many terms used for God's relationship with his people, Christian believers. These terms are not mutually exclusive, but are instructive of various aspects of our position in Christ. We need a spiritual understanding, rather than an argument.

 

When Paul writes, But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all, is he writing of a physical city in heaven, complete with houses, shops, utilities, temple, etc? I think NOT. We are born-again children of God, citizens of spiritual Jerusalem - the city Abraham lived in hope of.

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

....

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

Don't divide ('cos it's not rightly dividing) bride, body, disciples, Christians, Israel, children, people, elect, redeemed... etc. Every term is an expression of our wonderful relationship with our Saviour God. The "arithmetic" is addition, or even multiplication, NOT division, nor subtraction.

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