I got one...dispensations!

[Anon]

HERE is a topic I've wanted to discuss and this is the perfect time and place to do so.

I would like to discuss the dispensations from an IFB, non-Ruckman standpoint, including spiritual gifts and prophecies.

What do most of you believe on this topic?

[joyfulpraise93]

I don't know a lot about it...as far as how to explain it, but here goes.

I believe the Bible teaches that man has always been saved by faith, not works. I think that the works (sacrifices etc) that people did back in the Old Testaments were simply their faith in action. I think the Bible is really clear on this...when I have time I'll post some references. (My parents are coming tomorrow and staying the weekend so i'm trying to be sure everything is perfect for their visit. *rush rush*)

[HappyChristian]

What I've always believed was that Adam and Eve, for a time, lived in innocence. That, I guess, is considered a dispensation by some, I don't know. Then, of course, the time under the law, looking forward to His death on the cross. Then, grace - which is where we are now. During the Trib period, I think it's going to be kind of like the OT times - only Christ will already have died. So, people will have to place their trust in Him, only they won't be indwelt by the Holy Spirit as during the time of grace. And most of them will die for it. Hence Revelation's mention of the martyrs of the tribulation.

That's kind of muddled, with no scripture support. Would love to know if I'm thinking straight (and I don't have to be worried about being called a name? :thumb ).

[Anon]

Doesn't Scofield have like seven dispensations or something? Although I believe in all, salvation is by faith in Christ. However I think God worked in different ways in each dispensation, right? Which is why the early church age had signs and gifts and prophecies and I don't believe we still have that today....nothing different in salvation, but God had different methods.

My good friend's dad is a fairly prominent Ruckmanite pastor and he doesn't believe in the Great Commission...if its not in Paul's Gospel, he doesn't think it applies.

[joyfulpraise93]

Doesn't Scofield have like seven dispensations or something? Although I believe in all, salvation is by faith in Christ. However I think God worked in different ways in each dispensation, right? Which is why the early church age had signs and gifts and prophecies and I don't believe we still have that today....nothing different in salvation, but God had different methods.

My good friend's dad is a fairly prominent Ruckmanite pastor and he doesn't believe in the Great Commission...if its not in Paul's Gospel, he doesn't think it applies.

I don't believe signs, prophecies, gifts (like tongues) are still around. They were there until God's Word was finished...I Corinthians 13.

[HappyChristian]

Agreed - there is no need for signs and tongues now. Not saying God could't use them if He wanted to, but with "that which is perfect" come, why would He? Remembering what Jesus said to the rich man is interesting. If people don't believe the Word, they won't believe the sign.

[joyfulpraise93]

Agreed - there is no need for signs and tongues now. Not saying God could't use them if He wanted to' date=' but with "that which is perfect" come, why would He? Remembering what Jesus said to the rich man is interesting. If people don't believe the Word, they won't believe the sign.[/quote']

true...it says they wouldn't believe though someone came to them from the dead. that's true because men saw Lazarus (Mary's brother) raised from the dead and STILL chose not to believe Jesus!

[Anon]

Exactly....so wouldn't that time period be a different dispensation?

Although just because God worked different ways doesn't mean he expects different from us...for example a hyper dispensationalist discounts the Great Commission...I say that it still applies, even if it was given in "a different dispensation"...

[HappyChristian]

Yeah - by my count, there aren't 7. The dispensation of innocence (before the fall); of law; of grace; the Trib. That's only 3. Maybe I'm wrong, but I dunno. During the time of Christ, they were still under the law, because Jesus came to fulfill it.

It's interesting - even though Paul doesn't repeat the Great Commission, he does tell us that the love of Christ constraineth us..

"Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men..."
"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead..."
"And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation..."
"Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
2 Cor. 5

Just some excerpts, but I kinda think he's expanding on the Great Commission, eh?

[Anon]

You'd think....

Scofield has a dispensation during Adam's time...then one during Noah...one during Abraham...ummmmm.... the kings maybe and the prophets???? then early church and then present. I think. Something like that. See I don't know it very well and would like expansion here, without Ruckman cultic taint. haha.

If you notice God worked with each "dispensation" in a slightly different way....the way He communicated with the people and the way He dealt with them. The dispensations would seperate how God dealt with people back then and how He deals with us now.

[Bakershalfdozen]

We studied Dispensations at ABC and used a book by Charles C. Ryrie. It is worth buying (only $10!) and is a really good study on the subject

http://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism ... 919&sr=8-2

Renald Showers also has a book that is a good comparison between Dispensations and Covenant Theology - http://www.amazon.com/There-Really-Diff ... y_b_text_b


Here is an overview of the doctrine of Dispensationalism (NOT Hyper-dispensationalism, i.e. Ruckmanism):

Dispensationalism is a framework for understanding the Bible, teaching that God has dealt with man historically in different administrations or ?dispensations.? It maintains a radical distinction between Israel and the Church?that there are two peoples of God with two different destinies?and it distinguishes between the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ (that one precedes the other by seven years of tribulation).

Different theologians have separated the Bible into different sections, some more, some less. Ryrie and Scofield make 7 dispensations or 7 time periods where God is working with mankind in a specific way.

Innocence (Edenic Covenant) - Gen. 1:26-3:6

Conscience (Adamic Covenant) - Gen. 3:7-8:14

Human Gov't (Noahic Covenant) - Gen. 8:15-11:32

Promise (Abrahamic Covenant) - Gen. 12:1-Ex.19:8

Law (Mosaic Covenant) Ex. 19:9-Acts 1:26 *[Tribulation Period is an extension of the Law Period because it is the time of Jacob's trouble]

Church (New Covenant) Acts 2:1-Rev.4:1

*Tribulation (extension of Law dispensation) - Rev. 6-19

Kingdom (Final covenant) - Rev. 20-22


That's just an overview. Each dispensation has a specific covenant and a specific ending. I wouldn't say that each dispensation was a complete separate entity but rather a building process. More revelation was given with one and new promises were made by God.


Regarding the gifts, "supernatural" gifts were given for a time because Jews require a sign. At the completion of Scripture, they were done away. What we have now are gifts to the church for the administration and support thereof.

Administration gifts:
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Apostles are done away because a true Apostle was one who had physically seen Jesus and learned from Him. We don't have prophets (fore-telling) because we do not need additional revelation. We have prophets (forth-telling), i.e. preachers, evangelists (one who evangelizes) and pastor-teachers.

Support gifts (some are also administration):
Romans 13:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

Preaching, ministering, teaching, exhorting, giving, ruling and showing mercy.

Do you see these differing gifts in the people in your church? Each Christian is gifted differently and those gifts manifest themselves both positively and negatively. Something to remember next time there is a squabble. :cool


Here's a neat chart showing the dispensations. Click on it to see it larger:

[joyfulpraise93]

We studied Dispensations at ABC and used a book by Charles C. Ryrie. It is worth buying (only $10!) and is a really good study on the subject

http://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism ... 919&sr=8-2

Renald Showers also has a book that is a good comparison between Dispensations and Covenant Theology - http://www.amazon.com/There-Really-Diff ... y_b_text_b


Here is an overview of the doctrine of Dispensationalism (NOT Hyper-dispensationalism, i.e. Ruckmanism):



Different theologians have separated the Bible into different sections, some more, some less. Ryrie and Scofield make 7 dispensations or 7 time periods where God is working with mankind in a specific way.

Innocence (Edenic Covenant) - Gen. 1:26-3:6

Conscience (Adamic Covenant) - Gen. 3:7-8:14

Human Gov't (Noahic Covenant) - Gen. 8:15-11:32

Promise (Abrahamic Covenant) - Gen. 12:1-Ex.19:8

Law (Mosaic Covenant) Ex. 19:9-Acts 1:26 *[Tribulation Period is an extension of the Law Period because it is the time of Jacob's trouble]

Church (New Covenant) Acts 2:1-Rev.4:1

*Tribulation (extension of Law dispensation) - Rev. 6-19

Kingdom (Final covenant) - Rev. 20-22


That's just an overview. Each dispensation has a specific covenant and a specific ending. I wouldn't say that each dispensation was a complete separate entity but rather a building process. More revelation was given with one and new promises were made by God.


Regarding the gifts, "supernatural" gifts were given for a time because Jews require a sign. At the completion of Scripture, they were done away. What we have now are gifts to the church for the administration and support thereof.

Administration gifts:
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Apostles are done away because a true Apostle was one who had physically seen Jesus and learned from Him. We don't have prophets (fore-telling) because we do not need additional revelation. We have prophets (forth-telling), i.e. preachers, evangelists (one who evangelizes) and pastor-teachers.

Support gifts (some are also administration):
Romans 13:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

Preaching, ministering, teaching, exhorting, giving, ruling and showing mercy.

Do you see these differing gifts in the people in your church? Each Christian is gifted differently and those gifts manifest themselves both positively and negatively. Something to remember next time there is a squabble. :cool


Here's a neat chart showing the dispensations. Click on it to see it larger:

Couldn't have said it myself, but that's what I think.

[Calvary]

First of all brethren, Dr. Ruckman is not a hyper dispensationalist by any means. He is very moderate and would agree whole heartedly that Matthew 28 is as good a place as any to march under.


A Hyper- would be Stam, Baker, Pennington, Williams and many others who have all written extensively about the placements of varying administrations or dispensations. Most of these men are also Calvinists, generally speaking the Bereans or "Grace Brethren" are hyper.

An Ultra-hyper would be along the lines of JC O'Hare out of Chicago, Moore, Bullinger and a host of others.

A Moderate dispensationalist is where most of us will fall, whether or not we understand it all. We basically will say that the Jew, the Church and the Gentile are 3 different and distinct people groups with different purposes to fulfill. We might choose Acts 2 (Pentecost) or an early place of the 4 gospels for the beginning of the church. A Hyper would stake his claim in Acts 9 or perhaps Acts 13, an ultra hyper would lay it after Acts 28. All have convincing arguments and all overlook some very clear verses.

A dispensation is not a time period per se, but more a dealing or an administrative method of God's dealing with peoples.

For example, God did not require Adam and Eve to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Before you comment, don't try to put words in my mouth.
God scattered the nations at Babel and human Govt. was
Abraham was given a promise - God has kept it.
Moses was given the Law - it cursed mankind.
The Jew was offered a kingdom on earth, he struck out (John, Jesus, Stephen)
The church was born under a New Covenant, annulling the Old.
The Kingdom will be established on earth with Jesus as king and his throne in the City of David.

7 basic distinctions that have principles that cross over in some and in others none.

Eternity past +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Innocence - Adam in the garden (Gen 1-3)
Conscience - Adam to Noah (Gen 3-9)
Human Govt. - Noah to Abram (Gen 9-12)
Promise - Abraham to Moses (Gen 12 - Ex 20)
Law - Moses to Christ (Ex 20 - Matt. 28)
Acts is a bridge between the the Law and the Church
Church - Christ to Rapture ( Romans - Philemon)
Hebrews is another bridge between the church age and the kingdom ministry)
Millennial Kingdom - Rapture to the beginning of Eternity

Eternity Future++++++++++++++++++++


These are general comments only. But that is how I see the Bible laid out. I am not going to get into some big dogmatic argument about it.

God bless,

Calvary

[Guest Guest]

Personally, I only see three. Pre-Law, Law, and Grace, with the common denominator throughout being believing and having faith toward God. I know that God did not always work in the same fashion throughout each of these periods but I see no need to break it down further than that. For example, at times in the OT God was not speaking openly to Israel as we see when he first came to Samuel, at other times there would be no miracles for long periods of time, but I don't feel God was working under a different set of rules so to speak, he was just emphasizing different things. In like manner I feel miracles, prophecies, etc. don't happen much today because God does not currently see a need for them, but I wouldn't say they scripturally CAN'T happen today as a more strict dispensationalist might.

[Guest Guest]

I found this chart. :smile

Clarence Larkin Charts...75 year old charts.

http://www.preservedwords.com/charts.htm-8k

He is located under "Rightly Dividing the Word."