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John Calvin Had It All Wrong


Calvary

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Joh 12:19  The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.

To the Pharisees, israel pretty much was the entire world, or all they cared about.

 

 

 

Do we not say "Give my regards to everybody"?  When we don't mean everybody?

 

The French would say "Toute la monde", i.e. 'all the world.'  when we would say everybody. 

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"He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:11-13

 

How is this to be understood?

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Do we not say "Give my regards to everybody"?  When we don't mean everybody?

 

The French would say "Toute la monde", i.e. 'all the world.'  when we would say everybody. 

Again we are dealing with the Bible recording the words of men, not the words of God. the Pharisees said the whole world had gone after Him-a true recording of an exaggerated statement made by sinners. Two of your three examples are just that-the bible recording that which was said by men. the third, being the words of God by Agabus, and a dearth throughout the whole world-again, there's no reason to say there wasn't a dearth through the entire world.

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For God so loved the world(encompassing the Mediterranean Sea) that He gave.........

For God so loved the world(conquered by the Romans) that He gave.........

For God so loved the world(conquered by the Romans, and He later loved the Native Americans after 1492) that He gave.........

For God so loved the world(conquered by the Romans, and later loved the Native Americans, the Australian Aborigines, Filipinos and Pacific Islanders) that He gave.........

 

Bible check for me...Does any of you guys have a KJB that reads that way?

Why make it hard? God Almighty said "for God so loved the world". He didn't do a slipshod, slacker, incomplete jOB friends, He loved it ALL. He didn't leave anyone out. He fills space and eternity and His love isn't partial either. You and I have partial, exclusive love...but He doesn't. If you love your enemies, then you're getting close to being like God. That's what His Holy Word says.

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That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:11-13

 

How is this to be understood?

It seems that the light of creation, to which was added the light of Jesus' incarnation, did not make Jesus known for salvation.

 

"His own" refers to his people Israel, who as a nation did not receive him.

 

Those who did receive him became children of God, because they were born of God. Human ancestry (descent from Abraham) did not & does nor save. God saves.

 

The text ends the argument as to whether faith or rebirth come first. Everyone with saving faith has been born again, & everyone born again has saving faith.

 

Whether the text is "calvinistic" or otherwise would be a fruitless argument. You MUST be born again, & that isn't something we are unaware of. To be born again, you must receive Christ as LORD & Saviour.

 

 

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I don't expect anyone reading the thread to accept the doctrines of grace, but I do expect respect from opponents. "Calvinists" like Invicta & myself serve our Saviour God in our churches, alongside non-calvinists - most of whom are unaware of the doctrine.

 

We are concerned that our God will bring sinners to repentance & salvation through the power of his Holy Spirit as his word is preached, & received, & hearts are opened.

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These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
 

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;

 

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

But God...

 

But God...

 

But God...

 

God bless,

calvary








 

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11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one 
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One more check to see if anyone else has insight.

 

1 Timothy 4:10

 

John 1:11-13

 

I asked about these verses, in separate postings, and I received one response to each (thank you Mike and Covenanter).

 

Does anyone else have anything to share about how either of these verses are to be understood and how they apply (or not) to this topic?

 

Thank you.

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11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one 

 

 

Jesus saying he died for the sheep does not mean he did not die for all men. 

 

If I say I love my children, does that mean I hate all other children?

 

This is reading Calvinism into scripture when it is not there. 

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11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one 

 

2 sheep here:

 

"THE sheep"-that's everyone, the world

 

"MY sheep", those that are of Christ's flock.

 

I keep sheep, and goats, but there are other sheep that aren't mine.

 

Jesus died for ALL sheep, yet only some become part of His flock. 

 

And please, don't anyone bring up the sheep and the goats judgment, because then I will bring up that the sheep there weren't born again, because they are judged on their works, not thier relationship to Christ.  I will also metion that goats in the OT are one of the holy animals before the Lord, and in some cases, like the Passover feast, they are interchangable with the lamb. Technically, Jesus COULD be considered the Passover Goat Kid of God.

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have any of you taken time to read Brother Ricks's teaching 'trampling through the tulips"?

 

It is done in a way he is not trying to offend I would haver called it "tip toeing through the tulips".  Just Joking of course.

 

It is very informative

 

Go here to read it.  '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

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have any of you taken time to read Brother Ricks's teaching 'trampling through the tulips"?

 

It is done in a way he is not trying to offend I would haver called it "tip toeing through the tulips".  Just Joking of course.

 

It is very informative

 

Go here to read it.  '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

I had lots of friendly conversations with Rick - last heard rejoicing in the birth of their 4th baby.

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Covenanter, on 28 Jul 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:snapback.png

Our church begins our Holiday Bible Club at 1 p.m. today. It will run all week. Previous years we have up to 70 children, mostly from non-Christian families.

It went very well, with the Gospel of Jesus preached to a total of 76 children (& many parents) through the deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt. Lots of enthusiastic singing. e.g.

God is a Holy God,

we can't be friends because of our sin.

Jesus died to cleanse our sin; when we put our trust in him,

God opens his arms & welcomes us in.

It's not on Youtube.

 

About 15 of the youngsters are regulars in the church, & we are reinforcing the message with the memory texts & songs. Some parents come with younger children to our "Stay & play" morning.

 

And mid week we had news from a Christian camp in Wales that one of our youngsters had come to repentance & faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. He gave his testimony in the church on Sunday.

 

Please pray for Ezekiel (13) & his godly mother, Lisa & his younger brother Elijah.

 

12 years ago, the church was reduced to fewer than 10 elderly English, who were unable to reach out. Pastor ROBin is a Pakistani believer who came with the support of the "home missions" of our group of churches. About six years ago he married a converted Sikh. Our congregation now is 30-40, including children.

 

Do "Calvinism" & Reformed doctrine hinder our outreach & service? I hope you agree that they do NOT.

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Hello Ian

 

Great news about that young Person,

 

Would that camp be at the CCIW camps?

 

Some of our members go to a later one at CCIW and this year they are going on the 17th August.  One coupl;e are in charge of all the catering for the camp and last year they catered for about 120 including helpers.  Our back hall is filled with cans of food, etc and the feeezer is full with meat.  The camp is somewhat remote and they have to take all the food with them.  They spent all last week cooking and they were continuing today.  Some of our younger members are also going as tent leaders.

 

My two eldest grandchildren were helping on a beach mission at Lyme Regis for the last two weeks.  The local council tried to stop them but after discussions have given them permission to continue for three years then they will review the situation.

 

Their mum, my daughter; has gone to Folkestone today to help with a camp at Grace Baptist Church, Folkestone. 

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It went very well, with the Gospel of Jesus preached to a total of 76 children (& many parents) through the deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt. Lots of enthusiastic singing. e.g.

God is a Holy God,

we can't be friends because of our sin.

Jesus died to cleanse our sin; when we put our trust in him,

God opens his arms & welcomes us in.

It's not on Youtube.

 

About 15 of the youngsters are regulars in the church, & we are reinforcing the message with the memory texts & songs. Some parents come with younger children to our "Stay & play" morning.

 

And mid week we had news from a Christian camp in Wales that one of our youngsters had come to repentance & faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. He gave his testimony in the church on Sunday.

 

Please pray for Ezekiel (13) & his godly mother, Lisa & his younger brother Elijah.

 

12 years ago, the church was reduced to fewer than 10 elderly English, who were unable to reach out. Pastor ROBin is a Pakistani believer who came with the support of the "home missions" of our group of churches. About six years ago he married a converted Sikh. Our congregation now is 30-40, including children.

 

Do "Calvinism" & Reformed doctrine hinder our outreach & service? I hope you agree that they do NOT.

I saw the camp leaflet this morning (at our prayer meeting) & noticed the Chaplain was Matthew Jones, Elder at the church attended by one of my sons. Wall Heath Evangelical Free Church.

 

May these special occasions & camps be blessed by the salvation of many.

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