Jump to content
Online Baptist Community
  • Newest Sermon Entry

    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

John Calvin Had It All Wrong


Calvary

Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Back to the original question...why take offense at an opposing point of view???

 

Certainly he knows some won't agree with his view but that's a far cry from purposefully trying to offend someone.

 

This brings us back to the prOBlem we have in this country of the Left declaring anything they consider offensive to be subject to silencing. This has led to some on the so-called Right trying to play the same game. Which brings up the question as to who gets to decide what is or isn't offensive and why take offense at all?

 

If someone posts an opposing view we can choose to ignore it or present our own view. Some folks simply want to silence opposing views because they are either unable or unwilling to support their own views. That's just as wrong as those who take offense at anything they disagree with even if it's not offensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 338
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I have no prOBlem with opposing points of view.
I have a prOBlem with people posting false information that they know for certain will be offensive to many on this site.

He does this.
Not opposing views - false and deliberately offensive.

And I am not the only one who thinks so.

You seem to be happy to allow him to be deliberately offensive but baulk at the mere suggestion that someone might have an opposing view on decently dressed women.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Did Jesus die for the sins of Hitler?  Well, John the Baptist said, of Jesus, "Behold the Lmab of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

 

The sin of the world seems like a pretty all-encompassing thing.

 

Paul, when speaking of the gospel, said, "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures" If this is the gospel, which is preached to the LOST, then the "OUR sins" would be speaking universally.

 

Jesus Christ died for ALL the sin of ALL the world-He paid for the sin of the entire world, all the lost. Thus, yes, even for Hitler and Jeffery Dahmer and Ted Bundy and Joseph Stalin and Osama Bin Laden, etc, etc.

 

The question is, Is this to be considered "universal redemption"?   No, redemption is to possess something and then, one day, redeem it to yourself, like buying something on layaway-you can pay for it, but leave it until a convenient time to pick up. It is bought and paid for, your property, but to be redeemed at a later time.  So, Christ paid for the sin of ALL, but not all will be redeemed, because unlike layaway, the product paid for has to be in agreement-they have to accept that payment for themselves. So, some reject that Jesus paid for them, some disbelieve it, some still want to try and pay for themselves.

 

Salvation is like having a gift for someone-its bought and paid for, and I am holding it in my hand, offering it to them-but that person must reach out and accept the gift, or it does them no good-it is theirs, it is paid for, but not accepted. We MUST accept salvation for the salvation to apply to us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Our church begins our Holiday Bible Club at 1 p.m. today. It will run all week. Previous years we have up to 70 children, mostly from non-Christian families.

 

Later, I will be leading a Bible study with Asian friends, hopefully including a Muslim lady. I thought Hebrews 1:1 - 2:4 would be a suitable passage for a mixed gathering.

 

We have a number of choruses we can sing in both Punjabi & English. 

 

Over 40 children present - the "English" are likely to be Polish RCs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I've not read an offensive post by Covenanter.

 

I still don't know what the attire of women has to do with this. Scripture says we are to dress modestly. If your view on modesty is different than mine I'm not going to be offended by that.

 

Just what is it that you are offended over?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Did Jesus die for the sins of Hitler?  Well, John the Baptist said, of Jesus, "Behold the Lmab of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

 

The sin of the world seems like a pretty all-encompassing thing.

 

Paul, when speaking of the gospel, said, "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures" If this is the gospel, which is preached to the LOST, then the "OUR sins" would be speaking universally.

 

Jesus Christ died for ALL the sin of ALL the world-He paid for the sin of the entire world, all the lost. Thus, yes, even for Hitler and Jeffery Dahmer and Ted Bundy and Joseph Stalin and Osama Bin Laden, etc, etc.

 

The question is, Is this to be considered "universal redemption"?   No, redemption is to possess something and then, one day, redeem it to yourself, like buying something on layaway-you can pay for it, but leave it until a convenient time to pick up. It is bought and paid for, your property, but to be redeemed at a later time.  So, Christ paid for the sin of ALL, but not all will be redeemed, because unlike layaway, the product paid for has to be in agreement-they have to accept that payment for themselves. So, some reject that Jesus paid for them, some disbelieve it, some still want to try and pay for themselves.

 

Salvation is like having a gift for someone-its bought and paid for, and I am holding it in my hand, offering it to them-but that person must reach out and accept the gift, or it does them no good-it is theirs, it is paid for, but not accepted. We MUST accept salvation for the salvation to apply to us.

I consider it offensive to insist that Jesus died for the sins of Hitler & all who lived utterly evil lives & died unrepentant. That Jesus did not save sinners for whom he died. Offensive to Jesus, rather than to me. I don't take offence when people disagree with me.

 

General statements like "Behold the Lmab of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."  & "our sins" do not imply universality. "The world" can simply mean the Gentiles as distinct from the Jews. What it cannot mean is "everybody who has ever lived," because the whole world's sins were NOT taken away. If they were, then all the world has had its sins taken away, & all are now no longer sinners. 

 

Why ever did Jesus pray:

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. (John 17) ?

Then in John 3 he has declared: God so loved the world. Is Jesus refusing to pray for the world God loves? And is Hitler enjoying the unchanging love of God in Hell?

 

I don't accept your explanation of redemption. Something is mine, but I lose it, someone else takes possession, then I redeem it - buy it back. God's people are his by creation, but are lost sinners. The redemption price is the precious blood of Christ. All would be redeemed if he paid for the sin of all.

 

Certainly we must accept the free gift of salvation, but it is bought & paid for by Christ already. That we accept as the Holy Spirit makes us aware of our sin, & our Saviour.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Don't doubt it Convenanter.  In order for Christ t truly take away the sins of the world it must include even the vilest of men and their sins too.  even if they were not saved.  that is why it says that while we were yet sinner Christ died for us.

 

 Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
 

 

Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

 

We see two groups here:

 

the world: that means, well, the WORLD-everybody. To try to force an interpretation onto it, to mean PART of the world, or the part of the world that was pre-chosen for salvation, but NOT the part that was pre-chsen for hell. It means the world.

 

Whosoever believeth in Him; that means those OF the world that believe and receive salvation.

 

Jesus died for ALL sinners.

 

acts 17:30- :And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:'  God would be unrighteous to command all men to repent, if He knew full well some could not, and the thers would have no choice bUT to repent.

 

Rom 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."  The gift came upon all men-justification was made for all, in nthe death and resurrection of Christ for all men, but not all would accept it, and thus, die in their sins.

 

John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.". Jesus draws all, but some reject that drawing.

 

1tim 3:2,3: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

 

1Tim 4:10: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."  I believe this verse is extremely telling, because it says He is the Saviour of ALL MEN, SPECIALLY those that believe. not ONLY those that beleve. Jesus is, potentially, Saviour of ALL men, because He died for all men, for the sin of the world, but because some will reject, salvation is not realized for them. So He is Savour of all, but that salvation will only be realized in those who receive, those that believe.

 

John 1:9 "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." Jesus lights, or enlightens ALL men that come into the world, but some hate the light and refuse it, because they love darkness more.

 

The Bible disagrees time and again with the idea of "world=only some of the world". And really, it would mean only a very tiny portion of the world-that Jesus, out of multiplied billions who would live upon the earth, only a few would be pre-ordined to life by God. God only loves a few, of His choosing, and only sent His Son to die for a few few chosen to life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The scriptures don't say, "once we got saved Christ died for us only".

 

We know there is free will and we know that there could not be predestination because the Holy Bible says,  2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 

When we look plainly at the scriptures we see this in one verse.

 

1) If men are predestined then there is no need for them to come to repentance.

2) If God's will that none should perish he could simply just predestine ALL men instead of waiting for them to come to repentance.

3) We would have no need to learn of God's attribute of longsuffering

 

In no way are the 5 points of Calvinism correct.  When just about every point is refuted in this one verse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

The scriptures don't say, "once we got saved Christ died for us only".

 

We know there is free will and we know that there could not be predestination because the Holy Bible says,  2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 

When we look plainly at the scriptures we see this in one verse.

 

1) If men are predestined then there is no need for them to come to repentance.

2) If God's will that none should perish he could simply just predestine ALL men instead of waiting for them to come to repentance.

3) We would have no need to learn of God's attribute of longsuffering

 

In no way are the 5 points of Calvinism correct.  When just about every point is refuted in this one verse.

However, a good Calvinist will argue that "us-ward" refers only to the brethren, those who are destined for salvation, and no others. This is, of course, wrong, because again, you must then take a term like "not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance" actually means, 'not willing that any (of the elect) should perish, but that all (the elect) should come to repentance.  Except that's not what it says, neither in word, context or implication. 'any' and 'all' mean just that, Any and All.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

For God so loved the Reformed, that he gave his only begotten son, that the limited few he had unconditionally chosen to overpower their resistance and thereby believe against their will, should not perish but have everlasting life. Calvin 3:16

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

However, a good Calvinist will argue that "us-ward" refers only to the brethren, those who are destined for salvation, and no others. This is, of course, wrong, because again, you must then take a term like "not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance" actually means, 'not willing that any (of the elect) should perish, but that all (the elect) should come to repentance.  Except that's not what it says, neither in word, context or implication. 'any' and 'all' mean just that, Any and All.

Then that is adding to the word and they bring a curses upon them for doing such and that would mean they are not saved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

For God so loved the Reformed, that he gave his only begotten son, that the limited few he had unconditionally chosen to overpower their resistance and thereby believe against their will, should not perish but have everlasting life. Calvin 3:16

hee hee hee haw haw haw hahahahahha! :nuts:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Don't doubt it Convenanter.  In order for Christ t truly take away the sins of the world it must include even the vilest of men and their sins too.  even if they were not saved.  that is why it says that while we were yet sinner Christ died for us.

 

 Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
 

 

Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
 

Those Scriptures are, of course, true. Rom. 5 doesn't disprove election. Mat. 19 says that God works the impossible in salvation, & that suggests irresistible grace.

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

 

We see two groups here:

 

the world: that means, well, the WORLD-everybody. To try to force an interpretation onto it, to mean PART of the world, or the part of the world that was pre-chosen for salvation, but NOT the part that was pre-chsen for hell. It means the world.

 

Whosoever believeth in Him; that means those OF the world that believe and receive salvation.

Jesus was talking to a Pharisee  - Nicodemus - who believed in the salvation of Abraham's physical descendants. The idea of Gentiles being saved horrified them. Now Jesus teaches new birth, & baptism, & counts the world as being loved by God. The world of Gentiles in general.    

 

Jesus died for ALL sinners.

That means there are countless sinners in Hell for whom Jesus paid the full redemption price. Many of whom never heard the Gospel. Some of the antediluvians heard Noah preaching righteousness, & the Sodomites heard Lot's rebuke, but were they given a message of salvation? And what about the Israelites delivered from Egypt, who died in the wilderness?     

 

 

acts 17:30- :And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:'  God would be unrighteous to command all men to repent, if He knew full well some could not, and the thers would have no choice bUT to repent.

Have you ever told your children to "Be good" knowing they cannot? God cannot be accused of unrighteousness.  

 

 

Rom 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."  The gift came upon all men-justification was made for all, in nthe death and resurrection of Christ for all men, but not all would accept it, and thus, die in their sins.

That text is a challenge - we need to look at the context. 

  15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disOBedience many were made sinners, so by the OBedience of one shall many be made righteous.

  Certainly all are condemned because of sin. What is the "gift" ? A take-it-or-leave offer, or the righteousness of Jesus Christ? Paul writes: the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Does that gift come to "all men" including unrepentant sinners? No. it comes to: they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Note that Paul uses both "many" & "all" in his argument.  

 

John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.". Jesus draws all, but some reject that drawing.

The context is that certain Greeks wanted to see Jesus. Jesus' reply is that by his death & resurrection he will draw all men - Gentiles (Greeks) as well as Jews.  

 

 

1tim 3:2,3: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

The Gospel is freely proclaimed; NONE are excluded by the Gospel call. No-one can say, "God doesn't mean me."   

 

1Tim 4:10: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."  I believe this verse is extremely telling, because it says He is the Saviour of ALL MEN, SPECIALLY those that believe. not ONLY those that beleve. Jesus is, potentially, Saviour of ALL men, because He died for all men, for the sin of the world, but because some will reject, salvation is not realized for them. So He is Savour of all, but that salvation will only be realized in those who receive, those that believe.

The context is God's provision for all men - food, marriage, etc - see also Acts 14 when Paul remonstrates with those who wanted to offer them sacrifices. And, of course, for all who repent & come to Jesus for salvation he is their Saviour & provider. [Pray for our brethren who are being driven from their homes, that God will provide.]  

 

 

John 1:9 "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." Jesus lights, or enlightens ALL men that come into the world, but some hate the light and refuse it, because they love darkness more.

True.

 

The Bible disagrees time and again with the idea of "world=only some of the world". And really, it would mean only a very tiny portion of the world-that Jesus, out of multiplied billions who would live upon the earth, only a few would be pre-ordined to life by God. God only loves a few, of His choosing, and only sent His Son to die for a few few chosen to life.

"World" always has a context.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

 

 

 

 

Yes it does....."A world" does, "This world" does, "worlds" does too. but "the world"....there is only one "the world". "For God so love THE WORLD".

 

 

Like in  

 

Joh 12:19  The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.

 

or:

 

Lu 2:1  And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
 
Not to mention  
 
Ac 11:28  And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

How does First Timothy 4:10 fit into this?

Because it proclaims that jesus is the Saviour of all men, specially those who believe.  So Jesus died to pay for all sin of all men of all time, but only some receive that payment and salvation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

 

 

 

 

 

Like in  

 

Joh 12:19  The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.

To the Pharisees, israel pretty much was the entire world, or all they cared about.

 

or:

 

Lu 2:1  And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
This is quoting Agustus; HE said that all the world was to be taxed. To Agustus, all he controlled was THE world
 
Not to mention  
 
Ac 11:28  And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
 
How do we know there wasn't a dearth in the whole world? Keep in mnd the world is specifically the people, the lost. So where there were people, there was a dearth.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 9 Guests (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...