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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

John Calvin Had It All Wrong


Calvary

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  • Advanced Member

There is only one gospel, and that is Jesus died for OUR sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. (1 Cor 15:3-4)

 

Can you look an unbeliever in the eye and tell him that Jesus died for OUR sins as Paul did? 

Yes. I believe & preach the Scriptures.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

:tapping:hopefully when you preach the Gospel you don't twist IT like you do the news! oh wait, yes you do, by telling them Israel isn't really Israel in the NT but the church...

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Yes. I believe & preach the Scriptures.

 

Not what I asked. Can you look any person in the eye and tell them Jesus died for their sins personally as Paul did? 

 

Paul preached the gospel to unbelievers, and he told them;

 

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 
Can you tell any person that Jesus died for their sins, or do you believe in Limited Atonement and that Jesus only died for "some" people?
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What did Edwards, Whitefield and Spurgeon preach? Three "Calvinists" with well recorded track records that are easy to access and study.

I wasn't there to hear them preach, so I cannot answer that question. 

 

Many Calvinists will say things like, "Jesus died for sinners", but this is only a half truth as it implies Jesus died for all sinners which 5 point Calvinists do not believe. If they were consistent with their view they could only say that Jesus died for "some" sinners, or that Jesus only died for "particular" sinners. 

 

A half truth is a whole lie. 

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Actually that was the point in bringing up those three. Their sermons, and in some cases most of their writings, are easily available for us to read. As well, testimonies and accounts of the results of their preaching are well recorded and easily available for us to investigate.

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Actually that was the point in bringing up those three. Their sermons, and in some cases most of their writings, are easily available for us to read. As well, testimonies and accounts of the results of their preaching are well recorded and easily available for us to investigate.

 

Well, it is your claim, and therefore your responsibility to present evidence for your claim. Perhaps you can show some examples of their preaching?

 

Anybody can make blank statements without evidence. 

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It is well known that Calvinists teach that Jesus didn't really die for all men. I have debated with several of them. Sure, you will find some people that are 4 or 3 point Calvinists and they may deny Limited Atonement. All that means is they are biblically wrong in 3 or 4 areas instead of 5.

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What claim did I make other than we can all look up their sermons?

 

If you are going to imply that these Calvinists taught universal atonement, you need to provide proof. It is not up to us to investigate your claims, it is your responsibility to provide evidence for your claims. 

 

Imagine a defense lawyer arguing that his client was across town at the time a crime was committed, and then telling the prosecution to look and see for themselves!

 

That's not how it works, you have to show evidence for your claims. If the defense lawyer could show a video that his defendent was at the airport across town when the crime was committed, he would prove his claim. 

 

I can show you that Spurgeon did not believe in universal atonement;

 

“Some say that all men are Christ’s by purchase. But, beloved, you and I do not believe in a sham redemption which does not redeem. We do not believe in a universal redemption which extends even to those who were in hell before the Savior died, and which includes the fallen angels as well as unrepentant men.”

 

http://www.ligonier.org/blog/charles-spurgeon-calvinism-definite-atonement/

 

Spurgeon was very inconsistent, one day he said Christ died for all men, the next day he would contradict himself. 

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I implied nothing. I said exactly what I meant. Those three men are well-known "Calvinists" that we have access to their sermons and results of their preaching that we can investigate.

 

If one reads the totality of Spurgeon's sermons and writings, he is totally consistent in his position.

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I implied nothing. I said exactly what I meant. Those three men are well-known "Calvinists" that we have access to their sermons and results of their preaching that we can investigate.

 

If one reads the totality of Spurgeon's sermons and writings, he is totally consistent in his position.

 

Baloney,

 

 

 

Next, Christ's Church is His by purchase. There are some who say that all men are Christ's by purchase. But, Beloved, you and I do not believe in a sham redemption which does not redeem! We do not believe in a universal redemption which extends even to those who were in Hell before the Savior died and which includes the fallen angels as well as unrepentant men. We believe in an effectual redemption and can never agree with those who would teach us that Christ's blood was shed in vain. The Good Shepherd laid down His life for His sheep. Christ loved His Church and gave Himself for it. He bought His own people with His blood. He purchased not the world's wide wilderness, but the "spot enclosed by Grace," the vineyard which His own right hand has planted!

 

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/spurgeon/sermons48.xxvi.html

 

Spurgeon taught Limited or Particular Atonement. He did not believe Jesus died for all men. 

 

Spurgeon is very clear here, he does not believe Jesus redeemed "unrepentant men".

 

Now you show evidence that Spurgeon believed Jesus died for all men, as I have shown you from his own words he did not. 

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I really don't understand why you continue to claim I've said things I've not. If you are just looking to argue, you'll have to look to others for that.

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Covenanter, on 26 Jul 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:snapback.png

 


Yes. I believe & preach the Scriptures.

 

 

Not what I asked. Can you look any person in the eye and tell them Jesus died for their sins personally as Paul did? 

 

Paul preached the gospel to unbelievers, and he told them;

 

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 
Can you tell any person that Jesus died for their sins, or do you believe in Limited Atonement and that Jesus only died for "some" people?

 

Your quote from Paul is from his letter to a church. Certainly I agree & preach Jesus death for our sins.

 

Can I tell a deliberate sinner the Jesus died for his sin, that God loves him personally? No! Jesus did NOT die to redeem the guilty sinners in hell. At the judgement, they cannot say, "Jesus died for my sins - how can you punish me as well for the same sins?" I believe in "particular redemption" - that Jesus died to save sinners, aka the elect.

 

Where do we find the Apostles preaching universal atonement? The Gospel invitation is always accompanied by warnings to the impenitent.

 

Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

 

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

What do I preach to sinners? Several of my sermons are on the forum. e.g. My sermon on Jeremiah 23:6 - The LORD our Righteousness.

 

 

Can we continue in sin, trusting in a forgiving God? Certainly NOT!
Salvation is new life with the Holy Spirit living within us. Our baptism marks the end of a sinful, disOBedient life, and the beginning of a new life. The old life results in death and hell. The new life comes with a promise of heavenly glory.
Jesus by his cross suffered the wrath of his Father God against our sin. We cannot – we dare not, continue in sin. We are living a new life by faith in Jesus, the LORD our righteousness.
In Jesus, the LORD our Righteousness we have better promises – perfect forgiveness now; a living, loving relationship with our God who is love; a promise of glory in heaven when we die, and the ultimate perfection of resurrection to a new heaven and new earth.
Make sure YOU experience this wonderful salvation.
Amen.
Our closing hymn is a response to the Gospel call:
516 I hear thy welcome voice that calls me, Lord, to thee.
Hear the voice of Jesus calling in his Word, and come to him.

 

As John points out, Calvinistic preachers whose sermons are published preached to sinners, many of whom responded. Preaching universal love & redemption is another Gospel. Sinners are living under condemnation. What follows John 3:16 ? John 3:17-21

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Your quote from Paul is from his letter to a church. Certainly I agree & preach Jesus death for our sins.

 

Can I tell a deliberate sinner the Jesus died for his sin, that God loves him personally? No! Jesus did NOT die to redeem the guilty sinners in hell. At the judgement, they cannot say, "Jesus died for my sins - how can you punish me as well for the same sins?" I believe in "particular redemption" - that Jesus died to save sinners, aka the elect.

 

Where do we find the Apostles preaching universal atonement? The Gospel invitation is always accompanied by warnings to the impenitent.

 

Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

 

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

What do I preach to sinners? Several of my sermons are on the forum. e.g. My sermon on Jeremiah 23:6 - The LORD our Righteousness.

 

 

As John points out, Calvinistic preachers whose sermons are published preached to sinners, many of whom responded. Preaching universal love & redemption is another Gospel. Sinners are living under condemnation. What follows John 3:16 ? John 3:17-21

 

You don't preach the gospel to believers, you preach the gospel to unbelievers so they might believe. 

 

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

What would be the purpose of preaching the gospel to someone who already believes? It would accomplish nothing. 

 

Paul told unbelievers that Jesus died for "our" sins so they MIGHT believe. 

 

But you can't do that. 

 

You are correct, it is not the same gospel. 

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Universal redemption is not what is at issue here.
Jesus dying for all men is only universal redemption in Calvin's twisted theology.

I certainly don't believe in universal redemption, but I believe that Jesus died For the whole world.
That doesn't mean the whole world is saved, but that the whole really does have the opportunity to be saved.

The salvation you preach is based on the election of God not on the blood of Christ. It is not a free gift offered to all men, but an imposition upon some men only.

You have answered the question asked in your twisted way, but the translation into simple language is "No".
You can not in your theology preach to all men that they can be saved.

Thanks for making your position clear finally, although I doubt that you meant to reveal as much as you have.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

"It would not be possible for me too earnestly to press upon
you the importance of reading the expositions of that prince among men,
JOHN CALVIN!"
-- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine
preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else
be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of
no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's
gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder
through England again."-- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

"... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."
-- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

(speaking of "TULIP"), "We look upon them as being five
great lamps which help to irradiate the cross, or rather five bright
emanations springing from the glorious covenant of our Triune God, and
illustrating the great doctrine of Jesus crucified. Against all comers,
especially against all lovers of Arminianism, we defend and maintain pure
gospel truth." -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

" I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.   -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

"Once again, if it was Christ's intention to save all men, how deplorably has He been disappointed, for we have His own testimony that there is a lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, and into that pit of woe have been cast some of the very persons who, according to the theory of universal redemption, were bought with His blood. That seems to me a conception a thousand times more repulsive than any of those consequences which are said to be associated with the Calvinistic and Christian doctrine of special and particular redemption. To think that my Saviour died for men who were or are in hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to entertain."  -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

But he also said...

"Our conformity to Christ is the sacred OBject of predestination."  -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

 

I don't care if Spurgeon was called "the prince of preachers", or how many thousand 'converts' he had; Billy Graham has a multitude of 'converts' and followers too, but he's still a heretic. When I got saved, Spurgeon was nowhere near but Jesus was in the house. I distinctly heard the "voice" of Psalm 29, via the scripture of Psalm 23. and WILLINGLY I opened up my everlasting door and the King of Glory came in. The Bible tells us not to follow, or put our trust in men. I "need not that any man teach" me, even Spurgeon.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Good example of Spurgeon's beliefs in this area. Yet he is quoted often in nearly all IFB churches and publications, held up as an example, and often IFB folks will try to claim Spurgeon really wasn't in the Calvinist camp.

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      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
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      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
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    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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