Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

John Calvin Had It All Wrong


Calvary

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 338
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

 

Like in  

 

Joh 12:19  The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.

To the Pharisees, israel pretty much was the entire world, or all they cared about.

 

 

 

Do we not say "Give my regards to everybody"?  When we don't mean everybody?

 

The French would say "Toute la monde", i.e. 'all the world.'  when we would say everybody. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:11-13

 

How is this to be understood?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Do we not say "Give my regards to everybody"?  When we don't mean everybody?

 

The French would say "Toute la monde", i.e. 'all the world.'  when we would say everybody. 

Again we are dealing with the Bible recording the words of men, not the words of God. the Pharisees said the whole world had gone after Him-a true recording of an exaggerated statement made by sinners. Two of your three examples are just that-the bible recording that which was said by men. the third, being the words of God by Agabus, and a dearth throughout the whole world-again, there's no reason to say there wasn't a dearth through the entire world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

For God so loved the world(encompassing the Mediterranean Sea) that He gave.........

For God so loved the world(conquered by the Romans) that He gave.........

For God so loved the world(conquered by the Romans, and He later loved the Native Americans after 1492) that He gave.........

For God so loved the world(conquered by the Romans, and later loved the Native Americans, the Australian Aborigines, Filipinos and Pacific Islanders) that He gave.........

 

Bible check for me...Does any of you guys have a KJB that reads that way?

Why make it hard? God Almighty said "for God so loved the world". He didn't do a slipshod, slacker, incomplete jOB friends, He loved it ALL. He didn't leave anyone out. He fills space and eternity and His love isn't partial either. You and I have partial, exclusive love...but He doesn't. If you love your enemies, then you're getting close to being like God. That's what His Holy Word says.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:11-13

 

How is this to be understood?

It seems that the light of creation, to which was added the light of Jesus' incarnation, did not make Jesus known for salvation.

 

"His own" refers to his people Israel, who as a nation did not receive him.

 

Those who did receive him became children of God, because they were born of God. Human ancestry (descent from Abraham) did not & does nor save. God saves.

 

The text ends the argument as to whether faith or rebirth come first. Everyone with saving faith has been born again, & everyone born again has saving faith.

 

Whether the text is "calvinistic" or otherwise would be a fruitless argument. You MUST be born again, & that isn't something we are unaware of. To be born again, you must receive Christ as LORD & Saviour.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I don't expect anyone reading the thread to accept the doctrines of grace, but I do expect respect from opponents. "Calvinists" like Invicta & myself serve our Saviour God in our churches, alongside non-calvinists - most of whom are unaware of the doctrine.

 

We are concerned that our God will bring sinners to repentance & salvation through the power of his Holy Spirit as his word is preached, & received, & hearts are opened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
 

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;

 

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

But God...

 

But God...

 

But God...

 

God bless,

calvary








 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

One more check to see if anyone else has insight.

 

1 Timothy 4:10

 

John 1:11-13

 

I asked about these verses, in separate postings, and I received one response to each (thank you Mike and Covenanter).

 

Does anyone else have anything to share about how either of these verses are to be understood and how they apply (or not) to this topic?

 

Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one 

 

 

Jesus saying he died for the sheep does not mean he did not die for all men. 

 

If I say I love my children, does that mean I hate all other children?

 

This is reading Calvinism into scripture when it is not there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

 

11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one 

 

2 sheep here:

 

"THE sheep"-that's everyone, the world

 

"MY sheep", those that are of Christ's flock.

 

I keep sheep, and goats, but there are other sheep that aren't mine.

 

Jesus died for ALL sheep, yet only some become part of His flock. 

 

And please, don't anyone bring up the sheep and the goats judgment, because then I will bring up that the sheep there weren't born again, because they are judged on their works, not thier relationship to Christ.  I will also metion that goats in the OT are one of the holy animals before the Lord, and in some cases, like the Passover feast, they are interchangable with the lamb. Technically, Jesus COULD be considered the Passover Goat Kid of God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

have any of you taken time to read Brother Ricks's teaching 'trampling through the tulips"?

 

It is done in a way he is not trying to offend I would haver called it "tip toeing through the tulips".  Just Joking of course.

 

It is very informative

 

Go here to read it.  '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

have any of you taken time to read Brother Ricks's teaching 'trampling through the tulips"?

 

It is done in a way he is not trying to offend I would haver called it "tip toeing through the tulips".  Just Joking of course.

 

It is very informative

 

Go here to read it.  '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

I had lots of friendly conversations with Rick - last heard rejoicing in the birth of their 4th baby.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...