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Dorightchristians - King James Onlyism Before Peter Ruckman


Dr James Ach

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The real point is this folks. Do you have God's complete Word in the KJB or not. This is simply a matter of faith.  And without faith it is impossible to please Him. And without His Word we would have never heard of Him. So your faith better FIRST be in His Word or you have have no faith.

 

think about it.

 

People can and do hear and respond to the simple Gospel message with a saving faith in Jesus Christ when they've never laid eyes on a copy of the Bible, let alone an AV copy, or are even able to read.

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People can and do hear and respond to the simple Gospel message with a saving faith in Jesus Christ when they've never laid eyes on a copy of the Bible, let alone an AV copy, or are even able to read.

^this^
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LuAnne said:"I don't get your reference to Crislam, though..."
___________________

 
Sorry, I misread this HC.  My reference to Chrislam is that Rick Warren put together the book, "A Purpose Driven Life."  That book included all Bibles in it.  It was a whole variety of MV's rolled into one book.  In regards to Chrislam?  Muslims are always telling Christians that one of the reasons they don't believe in Christianity is b/c of the variety of Bibles we have.  Rick Warren's promotion of his book added to this.  He is encouraging Christians to make peace with Muslims.  Somehow, I think his book had something to do with him promoting Chrislam.  I could see that coming a mile away.

Candle, can you clarify your statement about making peace with Muslims? I have never read Rick Warren, so I don't understand the context of your statement.
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Candle, can you clarify your statement about making peace with Muslims? I have never read Rick Warren, so I don't understand the context of your statement.

 

There is a movement called Chrislam that is creeping into our churches, Jeffrey.  Imams are invited to attend churches to try and bring Christianity and Islam together.  How can that be done?  Muslims don't worship Jesus Christ.  They worship Allah, a false god.  Anyway, Rick Warren is promoting this.  He is a false prophet who is promoting Chrislam.  Rick Warren believes in Modern Versions of the Bible.  When I witness to Muslims, the one thing they always say is that they can't believe in Christianity b/c we have so many Bibles.  That is the point I am trying to make.  

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There is a movement called Chrislam that is creeping into our churches, Jeffrey.  Imams are invited to attend churches to try and bring Christianity and Islam together.  How can that be done?  Muslims don't worship Jesus Christ.  They worship Allah, a false god.  Anyway, Rick Warren is promoting this.  He is a false prophet who is promoting Chrislam.

Yeah, that doesn't seem very cool. Bringing in  people to speak at the pulpit who don't believe isn't the smartest thing to do.

 

 

  Rick Warren believes in Modern Versions of the Bible.  When I witness to Muslims, the one thing they always say is that they can't believe in Christianity b/c we have so many Bibles.  That is the point I am trying to make.  

The reason the Muslims believe this is that, is because a true Muslim has to learn Arabic to "properly learn Islam"( told to me from a Muslim). you can read a Koran in English, but then, it is not a true Koran. you must read it in Arabic.( that comment makes me think of Sam Gipp's comment)

Our Scripture is in different languages and translation because our own language has transformed through the years. the word gay is a good example. If somebody was happy when I was a child, they were in a gay mood. If i was to say that today, I would prOBably get asked out by a fellow co-worker.

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I've had many encounters with Muslims who denounce Christianity as not having a holy book that Christians agree upon. They are quick to point out the many differences between the wide variety of versions as their proof Christianity follows men, not God.

 

Every Koran I've seen has English (or another language) on one page and the original Arabic on the opposite. Islamic teaching is specific that the Arabic Koran is perfect, the absolute word of their god. If there is any difference between the Arabic Koran and any translation their teaching is clear that the Arabic is absolute and the translation in error.

 

Whenever I've dealt with Muslims in a real exchange I've always insisted that the KJB is the Word of God and that I don't consult or read any of the "versions" they want to toss out. The Muslims I've dealt with respect that and we've conducted our discussion on that foundation.

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I've had many encounters with Muslims who denounce Christianity as not having a holy book that Christians agree upon. They are quick to point out the many differences between the wide variety of versions as their proof Christianity follows men, not God.

because we don't read it in the original languages, Greek, Hebrew, has been the complaint of the Muslims I dealt with. so regardless if you hold to a KJV position with them it doesn't resonate with them.

 

 

The Muslims I've dealt with respect that and we've conducted our discussion on that foundation.

The times i have witnessed to Muslims, they seem to have an issue to who Jesus is, and it never has turned out well. It never focused on what translations as such as to why they fail to see God incarnate as Jesus.They also seem to struggle with thr grace based aspect of salvation and have a heavy works based salvation. 

 All my opportunities with Muslims have never been peaceful and actually, the last time I witnessed to a man named Adbed(?), if I wasnt twice his size, I really think he would have come after me. Reading his body language, balled fists, gritting teeth, I really thought it was going to get physical.

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So far the Muslims I've dealt with have accepted that since I believe the KJB to be God's Holy Word in English and confine myself to quoting from and citing what's in the KJB, they are willing to respect that I believe that is truly our (Christianity) Holy Book in English.

 

Most of my encounters with Muslims have been fairly civil, a few were more tense, and in one instance a young Muslim was very angry and wanted to get aggressive and I do believe if the older Muslim, who was of a more reasonable nature, hadn't been there, the young Muslim would have sought to silence me with his fists.

 

The bulk of my experience with Muslims was in the 90s. I have noticed a trend that more Muslims today seem defensive and quick to take offense and become angry and potentially violent than they did back then. It seems the larger the local Muslim population, the more antagonistic and aggressive the Muslims are.

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The Muslim OBjection predates the modern versions. The many Greek manuscripts even of the Received Text have small variations. Erasmus did his best. 

 

The idea that there is one perfect original Koran is fiction - nothing was written by Mohammed - he recited what he claimed he received & his followers remembered, more or less. Various followers wrote what they remembered. After his death they put it in order trying to agree on what was authentic. The Caliph then took a set of Surahs that he declared were authentic & made sure all other versions were destroyed.

 

And memorizing & reciting it in Arabic is more important than understanding it - you can't really live by its teaching.

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People can and do hear and respond to the simple Gospel message with a saving faith in Jesus Christ when they've never laid eyes on a copy of the Bible, let alone an AV copy, or are even able to read.

 

Agreed but yet still not the point.

 

The point is no one would know of the Gospel to speak it to these people you mention without the written Word of God. All faith in the last 2000 years begins, grows, is sustained and ends with it. So your faith in the Word as complete and perfect makes sense to anyone reasonable when you consider that without it, you have nothing.

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Agreed but yet still not the point.

 

The point is no one would know of the Gospel to speak it to these people you mention without the written Word of God. All faith in the last 2000 years begins, grows, is sustained and ends with it. So your faith in the Word as complete and perfect makes sense to anyone reasonable when you consider that without it, you have nothing.

The Holy Spirit is the saving agent that uses the Scriptures, but without the Holy Spirit, it's all for naught.

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Yeah, that doesn't seem very cool. Bringing in  people to speak at the pulpit who don't believe isn't the smartest thing to do.

 

 

The reason the Muslims believe this is that, is because a true Muslim has to learn Arabic to "properly learn Islam"( told to me from a Muslim). you can read a Koran in English, but then, it is not a true Koran. you must read it in Arabic.( that comment makes me think of Sam Gipp's comment)

Our Scripture is in different languages and translation because our own language has transformed through the years. the word gay is a good example. If somebody was happy when I was a child, they were in a gay mood. If i was to say that today, I would prOBably get asked out by a fellow co-worker.

 

Right.  Hmmm.  I have never heard a Muslim say that before.   

Your comment about our language being transformed through the years reminds me of Darwin.  You see our Bible as evolving, which I don't.  You have heard it said that God's word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.  I don't accept MV's, b/c they are very watered down.  You even said so with the word, gay.  The world has transformed that word from sodomite to gay.  Our language is very dumbed down, and keeps heading that way.  Our Bible has been dumbed down to fit the world.  God isn't supposed to fit the world.      

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Right. Hmmm. I have never heard a Muslim say that before.
Your comment about our language being transformed through the years reminds me of Darwin. You see our Bible as evolving, which I don't. You have heard it said that God's word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I don't accept MV's, b/c they are very watered down. You even said so with the word, gay. The world has transformed that word from sodomite to gay. Our language is very dumbed down, and keeps heading that way. Our Bible has been dumbed down to fit the world. God isn't supposed to fit the world.

Right. Hmmm. I have never heard a Muslim say that before.
Your comment about our language being transformed through the years reminds me of Darwin. You see our Bible as evolving, which I don't. You have heard it said that God's word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I don't accept MV's, b/c they are very watered down. You even said so with the word, gay. The world has transformed that word from sodomite to gay. Our language is very dumbed down, and keeps heading that way. Our Bible has been dumbed down to fit the world. God isn't supposed to fit the world.

God's word is the same, yes. But the English language has evolved and changes with time. Slang, saying, all alter during the years, decades and centuries. I wouldn't count the English language as God's chosen language.
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No, English isn't God's chosen language.  But the language of the  King James has not been improved upon over the years...it is still the most poetic, beautiful version.  And the one which this site stands by as the Word of God for English-speaking people (just a little reminder...).

 

God's Word. Preserved as promised (for English speakers in the KJB). Not double inspired.

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God's word is the same, yes. But the English language has evolved and changes with time. Slang, saying, all alter during the years, decades and centuries. I wouldn't count the English language as God's chosen language.

 

I would certainly agree with you that the English language evolves, Jeffrey.  That is the point I am trying to make.  You are correct.  English isn't God's chosen language.  However, if proper English (which the KJV includes) continues to be dumbed down, then we are in big trouble.  We are already.  It isn't just Muslims that have a prOBlem with Christianity and Modern Versions of the Bible, it is many people who are unsaved.  Do you know the history of Wescott and Hort, with the MV's? 

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