Pentecost And Holy Spirit Ministry

[Covenanter]

What should we expect? Powerful ministry, conviction of sin, reverent enthusiasm in worship, fervent prayer, and frequent conversions, or ......

our present experience? 

 

[candlelight]

Covenanter, I don't understand your post.  The church was started in the Book of Acts, where 3,000 souls were saved and added to it.  Pentacost was when the church was empowered.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

What we see today in the so-called "Pentecostal" movement today is nowhere comparable to the event that happened in AD 29.  Today's "Pentecostal" movement would be exposed as heresy by the Apostles if they were walking amongst us .

[candlelight]

What we see today in the so-called "Pentecostal" movement today is nowhere comparable to the event that happened in AD 29.  Today's "Pentecostal" movement would be exposed as heresy by the Apostles if they were walking amongst us .

 

Very true, Ron.  However, it is so difficult to talk with Pentacostals on this subject.  I point out scriptures and they seem to fall on deaf ears.  *sigh*

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I know that feeling.  Dealt with it with my mother.  Hardcore Pentecostal who always said I couldn't have the Holy Ghost if I wasn't showing the evidence by speaking in tonges (Who stole my Honda; Untie my bowtie; etc..)

 

[candlelight]

I know that feeling.  Dealt with it with my mother.  Hardcore Pentecostal who always said I couldn't have the Holy Ghost if I wasn't showing the evidence by speaking in tonges (Who stole my Honda; Untie my bowtie; etc..)

 

 

I asked a Pentacostal woman to speak in tongues for me.  I listened to her two times on different occasions.  The language she spoke was kinda like Pig Latin.  I told her that she is saying the same thing every time she prays.  I told her that she is talking to the air and not to God.  She ignored what I said.  One of the most annoying things about Pentacostals is when they talk about "My spirit."  How selfish!  I have corrected them and told them it is the Holy Spirit but they ignore that, as well.  Between witnessing to Roman Catholics and hardcore Pentacostals, it gets old.  OY!  I need to be more patient with them, but I won't pray for patience, as it brings tribulation.  

[Standing Firm In Christ]

At the Church mother attended in Greensboro NC, one man was famous for "speaking in tongues" in every single service.  And the pastor was always the one who "interpreted the tonges".

Funny thing though, the "tongues" that the man spoke were always just one syllable repeated over and over and over... every service, same syllable.  But, get this, always a different "interpretation."  How many words can one syllable be transltated into?

Oh, the repeated syllable?  "Paw"

"Paw... paw... paw paw paw... paw paw" would go on for sometimes 30, maybe 40 seconds.  But a different interpretation every time.

And the pastor never challenged or corrected him.

[Covenanter]

Thanks for comments so far.

 

I hope we all agree that Pentecostal/Charismatic experience is NOT genuine Holy Spirit experience. Nuff said.

 

Is our normal church experience formal - all the right things - hymns/Psalms/prayers/Bible reading/faithful teaching/fellowship over a cup of tea ..... or is it a spiritual enthusiasm for fellowship with Jesus - hymns that move our spirits, as the Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirits, prayers that are living communion with our Saviour God, teaching that comes as the Holy Spirit speaks through the preacher & moves us in OBedience, & moves sinners to repent & turn to Jesus ?

 

Is the Holy Spirit quenched by our IFB or denominational orthodoxy? How should we pray?

[John81]

This is a prOBlem area for many churches. They organize their services to such a tight degree, never deviating from the script, it's so regimented there is virtually no room for the Holy Ghost to move.

 

While the other end of the spectrum might be some of the Charismatic churches that are so open services can devolve into virtual chaos. Interesting, I recently read an article pointing out that in some Pentecostal, maybe even some Charismatic, churches they themselves have established such tight orders of worship that there is no room for the Holy Ghost to move.

 

There has to be a measure of order in our services but they shouldn't be so tight, controlled and strictly adhered to so as to block the Holy Ghost.

 

While I'm sure we aren't anywhere near perfect, I do appreciate that our pastors don't have a set rotation of songs we sing by rote. Each song is selected based upon the sermon. We have a general order of service but we don't have a strictness about it. Our pastors plan their sermons, have them written out, but they (and we) pray the Holy Ghost will speak through them and if our pastor feels the Holy Ghost moving them in a different direction during a sermon they follow His lead, willing to forsake what they had planned to preach at that point of the sermon (or coming back to it if the Spirit so leads).

 

I've been in churches that were so regimented if the Holy Ghost tried to intervene He would be told to wait His turn or apply for a special event time slot!

 

Church services shouldn't be allowed to become routine. They need a mix of general order with room for the Holy Ghost to teach and move both the pastors and the congregation.

 

As most likely know, there is such a very huge difference between a congregation singing the same hymn every 2nd Sunday of the month because that's what their church does as a matter of course and duty; as compared to a congregation singing a hymn which the Holy Ghost is using to tie into the preaching and His move in the hearts of those with ears to hear.

[No Nicolaitans]

One of the saddest (and most disgusting) things that I've ever witnessed was this...

 

The song leader was saying a few things between songs about the Lord, and you could tell that he was sincere and joyful in what he was saying...it was a joy to see the joy on his face as he shared.

 

Well, he didn't get to finish...the pastor interrupted him and told him we didn't have all night...to speed it up and get back to the songs.

[Covenanter]

One of the saddest (and most disgusting) things that I've ever witnessed was this...

 

The song leader was saying a few things between songs about the Lord, and you could tell that he was sincere and joyful in what he was saying...it was a joy to see the joy on his face as he shared.

 

Well, he didn't get to finish...the pastor interrupted him and told him we didn't have all night...to speed it up and get back to the songs.

Songs do need introducing - and of course those intros may be the only spontaneous pars of the service. It's not unusual to see something new in familiar songs if we are open to the Spirit.

 

Perhaps even worse than that experience is when the musicians keep playing during the Bible reading & comments on the Scriptures.

[John81]

Wow! Talk about quenching the Spirit.

 

Makes me wonder how things would go if a "Paul" would try to preach all night as we read of in Acts; or if the pastor was moved by the Spirit to preach beyond that seemingly set in stone time when he's supposed to stop so folks can hurry to the diner and get home in time for the ballgame on time.

 

I read of folks in years past who used to literally walk 20 or more miles to hear all day preaching, of families that would load up their wagon and travel for days to get to an all day preaching event. Then I think of how easily we excuse ourselves from "going to all the trouble" to attend church across town and when we do go we impatiently wait for the sermon to end so we can get on with our day.

 

What a crazy lot so much of Christianity has become!

[MountainChristian]

One of the saddest (and most disgusting) things that I've ever witnessed was this...

 

The song leader was saying a few things between songs about the Lord, and you could tell that he was sincere and joyful in what he was saying...it was a joy to see the joy on his face as he shared.

 

Well, he didn't get to finish...the pastor interrupted him and told him we didn't have all night...to speed it up and get back to the songs.

 

That makes me think of Martha interrupting Jesus and trying to get him to send Mary into the kitchen. (hillbilly translation) Luke 10:38-42

[DaveW]

It always makes me wonder when people use this verse:

1Ti_2:8  I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 

 

As justification for this action - when it has nothing to do with singing, and the rider on it is "HOLY hands" - not just lifting hands, but lifting holy hands.

While these people continue in their unholy lifestyles..........

 

 

But I have nothing against the action per se.

 

In Australian IFB churches it is a rare thing to have people "amen" during the preaching - thankfully it is getting more common.

 

At a previous church we had a guy coming along who was raised his hands at points and said "Amen", but not in a demonstrative or loud way - it did not take away from the preaching.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

This is where Pentecostal and Holy Spirit Ministry led one famous preacher...

TD Jakes says, "There are many paths to God."