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Another Ifb College Succumbs...


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Ukulelemike,

 

By going under I did mean shut the doors. If you've downsized to live within your means that's no prOBlem. I would like to ask something of you to challenge you and your church for 6 months. First of all begin with prayer. Pray for a solid month before starting this challenge.

 

Starting when you want to (the beginning of a month is easier to keep up with it) make a decision to give 20% of the churches income to a missionary in another country. (There's no biblical basis for the ammount I gave it's just a #)  BIMI.org is a good place to start.

 

Take a count of the income over the past month. Six months after giving to a missionary consistantly, take a count again and see if you don't bring in the same or more per month and all your church bills paid.

 

Take a month if you want to and preach on stewardship, tithing, and missions. Have a missionary come in and speak one Sunday or Wednesday. If people can see where their money is being put to then giving comes easier.

 

Pay tithes, give to missions, go witnessing. Try it for 6 months and if it doesn't work then quit. I will guarntee that you cannot out give God!!

 

Malachi 3:10-11 Prove God herewith.

I will consider your proposal.

 

Mind you, this is where we came from-it was loss of people and money with them, (as it seemed all our givers left, most just moving, a few seeking places with more kid stuff). They left until we had to cut to pay the bills. Currently, only a couple give, except my wife and I and my parents, who don't even go to the church, and then we might get between $10, to a max of maybe $80, but the 10 is more consistent, and that only during pay periods. Not consistent.  And it seems the more we challenge, the less that is given, so we just don't anymore. One who used to give stopped because we didn't do things the way he wanted. he's a nice guy but the basic, 'give to the needy and the poor and to whoever asks without regard to biblical direction on how to give." type.

 

However, perhaps its time for a new push. We will pray about it.

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Sometimes I think we worry too much about 'formal training' and seminary and little pieces of paper on the wall. At one time preachers trained under their preachers and in study of the word and practice. There was little or no 'formal' training, save perhaps with other, more matre believers in more personal surroundings. Why do we think we can't do that these days? Oh my, can't be a pastor unless we understand the meanings and implications of soteriology and exegesis and all the 'isms' out there. So much man-made chopping up and compartmentalizing of the simple word of God. Yes, I agree we are to rightly divide the word of God, but not into little pieces, each with a name and category. Somehow Paul knew about rightly dividing without benefit of a Christian college.

 

I say shut 'em all down, take up either the small, church-run institutes and individual training. They are all becoming businesses, and they all so badly depend on money to the point that they have to run liie a business, which means, give the consumer what they want to get their money.

 

And don't get me started on school-designated "camps"!

 

But, that's just my opinion.

Amen  brother Mike ' being in agreement I've had these same thoughts for years, I was educated by pastors and ordained by God in the youth ministry.

keeping it simple I followed Gods will put upon my heart and he did the rest.

God bless 

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When I came to this church they financially in bad straights.
They were not generous.
It has always been my policy to give decent gifts to visiting preacher's, AND have them stay in nice rooms while they are with us.
They supported one missionary a little bit, now we support 3 for 4 times the amount each that they did for one before. ( was 1 x $25; now 3 x $100). And wanting to do more.
When the church here had the 20th anniversary, we had a week long meeting, brought over the founding pastor and the previous pastor and an evangelist, put them all in nice apartments for the week, bought the pastors/wives a nice gift and gave them a monetary gift, gave the evangelist a substantial monetary gift - and after spending all that cash our bank balance was unchanged........

Now we have the means to pay, but they didn't before we began to be generous.
(Not meant to be a criticism Mike, just a real life example).

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I have been praying for Pastor Mikes Church and the things that have happen their in the last year and ask that all brothers and sisters will continue to pray as well, May God greatly bless your faithfulness you've had throughout these trails brother Mike.

Still praying

God bless 

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I have been praying for Pastor Mikes Church and the things that have happen their in the last year and ask that all brothers and sisters will continue to pray as well, May God greatly bless your faithfulness you've had throughout these trails brother Mike.

Still praying

God bless 

Thanks, brother-your kindness is appreciated. I have always heard it said that you never learn to really trust God until the church is in the red. Guess I'm learning some great trust lessons!

 

I know sometimes I sound like I'm complaining-I'm not. I am where the Lord put me and glad to be so. The Lord never promises us finacial or numerical success-He just calls us to be faithful where we are. And I'm certainly not perfect-there are areas where I have pulled back, where its time to get back to work again. But God is faithful in all. 

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A couple members have posted before about prOBlems with IFBs funding things and continuing in funding things. If we (IFBs in general) are failing to support our own, there is something wrong with that.

 

I know the IFB plant near our home had their funding and support pulled so they had to close their doors and move on.

 

It's sad to see our churches and institutions being lost, either through neglect or their slip sliding away. 

This makes my blood boil!!  Our church just spent thousands on re-doing the gym floor, new basketball backboards and a whole new volleyball net system that is electric so it can be automatically folded up with a push of a button.  Thousands!!  Thanks be to our new Minister of Evangelism!  Did ya hear?  We have a minister of Evangelism! 

 

In May 2012 I started preaching at a church that had 7 people on Sunday morning.  I did this because they were between pastors.  I am not a pastor.  A few months into it, my pastor asked me if i would be interested in a part-time position with the church.  The position was evangelsim.  Go to people who have visited the church and inquire if their saved and if they have a church home?  Go visit people who have left the church and inquire as to why?  Go on visitation.  I told him I would be interested and he said it is in the works.  I went home and told my wife that my pastor wanted to pay me to be a soul-winner???  Anyway, I never followed up because it just seemed to odd to get paid to do something that I had done for free for years at another church I used to attend.  My pastor never got back to me on it.  There was supposed to be a vote in Nov. 2012 but I never heard anything about it as I was still preaching at the small church.  In the summer of 2013, they filled the part-time position with a full-time pastor that included a house to live in.  ( and I thought it was weird to offer it as a part-time position) 

 

My pastor is retiring after 47 years as our pastor and over 50 years in the ministry.  He and his wife are living in the parsonage.  The church took a vote to let him and his wife live in the parsonage until they both die.  Our new pastor is coming this Sunday.  His salary includes a $1000.00 monthly housing allowance!!  With his salary, insurance, mileage, retirement and housing, we will be paying close to $95,000 a year for him.  Our church owns 3 houses (one for minister of evangelism, one for retired pastor, one for church secretary who is no longer a memeber of our church because she got mad at our pastor)  We pay the youth minister a housing allowance along with this new pastor.  We have a church apartment above the gym that is being occupied by a family that owns their own house but is now renting it out because they live in the church so they can unlock the church door when someone needs to use it.  We own a huge modular that used to be our Christian school that is now just basically storage.   We own a huge 2 bay garage that used to be our bus garage that does house our church van, I think.  I know the church secretary's house we own is next door to it and she likes to park in it to keep her car out of the weather.  I think our church is in the real estate business!!!   The new pastor we are getting is SBC and uses newer Bible versions to preach from.  We are losing an independant that uses KJV to get this pastor.  The church voted him in at 117 in favor and 2 against.  My wife and I were the only 2 to vote against him.  Wow! we have changed. 

 

Anyway, I see so much money waste at my church I don't give anymore to my church.  I find other ministries to give to.  It just breaks my heart and makes my blood boil to know IFB churches out there are struggling and we are just throwing the money away!! 

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Have you ever read a book called "Fred and Erma"?

Their church needed Brunswick pinsetters.

Sounds a bit like yours.

I hate to say it but I think it is time you looks for another place to be.........

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We read in the book of Acts and the Epistles how the early churches helped one another. Churches that were doing financially well would take up a collection to help those struggling. We even read of some who were struggling themselves yet gave to help those struggling more.

 

Today we read of things like churches which basically are into real estate as they buy up everything around them whether there is actual need or not. We read of churches pouring multiple millions into building impressive looking new churches, schools, auditoriums, etc. Nothing wrong with expanding if it's needed, but often many millions could be saved by simply adding on to the existing facility or through buying a more modest new building. Pastors in many of these churches are paid wages that put them in the top money earners in their area. Add to this the paying of many church "staff" to do the things folks used to volunteer to do and hundreds of thousands (or more) dollars are spent where such shouldn't be necessary.

 

Meanwhile, down the block, in the next town over, in another State, there is a small church with a pastor barely getting by. His congregation is made up of folks on the poor end of the economic scale. The church has needs but no finances. Other needs that volunteers could tend to go unmet because the church is small and without members with the needed skills. How far could a little financial support from a wealthy church go to help such congregations?

 

We see wealthy churches putting together teams to go build houses in Mexico, for instance, (it's good to help the needy) but they are blind to the needs in their own back yard; blind to the needs of their fellow brothers/sisters in Christ.

 

Tending to our own, helping our own, should be a priority, but for many they seem to get caught up in the abundance of financial resources and can only see ways to "grow" their own ministry through spending the money on themselves, often to extravagance.

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Yes, some churches have become much like community centers. Yet in building their community center style church, they often neglect the needs of their poorer brothers/sisters in Christ.

 

It really makes one wonder when a church spends multiple millions on "wants" in their building projects, and most often their wealthy members are doing the same, all while a few really needy members in their church live in houses with a leaking roof the family can't afford to have redone, or they can't apply for better jOBs because their car is unreliable.

 

How easy, affordable and kind would it be for the church to put a new roof on the house, but buy a better car for that family, to offer assistance with food, clothing or bills. Not as a simple handout, but out of love truly seeking to bless them and help them through the difficult times.

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Of a family in their community struggling to make ends meet while the Church builds an unneeded gynnasium IN THE CHURCH.

Matthew 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Gymnasiums DO NOT belong in Churches.

Yes.  The church has had this gym prOBably since the church was built in 1954.  When we opened a Christian school in 1980, the church had the floor sanded and re-done since us kids were going to use it for gym class.  As far back as I can remember, we have always had tuesday night men's basketball.  Sort of an out reach program.  I can't think of one soul saved or one family that joined our church because of our gym.  In fact, the church members that show up for Tuesday night b-ball can't seem to make it for Wed. Bible study.  Now that the floor has been redone and a new vollyball system, we are going to add Thursday night volleyball, of course as an out reach program.  Like you said, gyms don't really belong in churches.

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May as we'll have a Saturday night bowling League and see who is faithful on Sundays. Smh

It is sad that people will go to a Church for entertainment but not for what it should be used for.

When I was pastoring, I made the mistake of starting a Saturday night sing once a month. The following morning, attendance dropped nearly 30%. After a couple months of that, the sing was cancelled permanently.

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When I came to this church they financially in bad straights.
They were not generous.
It has always been my policy to give decent gifts to visiting preacher's, AND have them stay in nice rooms while they are with us.
They supported one missionary a little bit, now we support 3 for 4 times the amount each that they did for one before. ( was 1 x $25; now 3 x $100). And wanting to do more.

 

I've seen before where churches give $25/month to a missionary. I don't get it. That's such a small amount that it's pretty much an insult. It's too small to do anything with.

 

When I was pastoring, I made the mistake of starting a Saturday night sing once a month. The following morning, attendance dropped nearly 30%. After a couple months of that, the sing was cancelled permanently.

 

Seriously? That's sad.

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We read in the book of Acts and the Epistles how the early churches helped one another. Churches that were doing financially well would take up a collection to help those struggling. We even read of some who were struggling themselves yet gave to help those struggling more.

 

Today we read of things like churches which basically are into real estate as they buy up everything around them whether there is actual need or not. We read of churches pouring multiple millions into building impressive looking new churches, schools, auditoriums, etc. Nothing wrong with expanding if it's needed, but often many millions could be saved by simply adding on to the existing facility or through buying a more modest new building. Pastors in many of these churches are paid wages that put them in the top money earners in their area. Add to this the paying of many church "staff" to do the things folks used to volunteer to do and hundreds of thousands (or more) dollars are spent where such shouldn't be necessary.

 

Meanwhile, down the block, in the next town over, in another State, there is a small church with a pastor barely getting by. His congregation is made up of folks on the poor end of the economic scale. The church has needs but no finances. Other needs that volunteers could tend to go unmet because the church is small and without members with the needed skills. How far could a little financial support from a wealthy church go to help such congregations?

 

We see wealthy churches putting together teams to go build houses in Mexico, for instance, (it's good to help the needy) but they are blind to the needs in their own back yard; blind to the needs of their fellow brothers/sisters in Christ.

 

Tending to our own, helping our own, should be a priority, but for many they seem to get caught up in the abundance of financial resources and can only see ways to "grow" their own ministry through spending the money on themselves, often to extravagance.

:goodpost: and a hearty AMEN.

 

God bless,

Larry

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There is a town 2 hours away from here that does not have an IFB - not even in the entire county.  The "big" churches here in Amarillo have the money and people to send teams of people up there for canvassing and soul-winning - but they don't - they just keep pushing for attendance, giving, and foreign missions.

 

I can say this - I am all for foreign missions, but we can't neglect our own country. 

 

This is why in the Colonial Era the independent Baptists formed Associations.  Each individual church retained its own autonomy, but could apply to the association for financial help or for pulpit supply if they needed a pastor.  Sometimes I think that we focus too much on our own "independence" and lose sight of those who really need help around us.

 

(Unfortunately, as time went by, those Associations turned into the Southern Baptist Convention - but the initial idea and outworking of the original Associations was good.)

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